Is Orthodox Christianity seen as a place where the Catholic & Protestant Churches could possibly reunite?

[PaulfromIowa]

Could Orthodox Christianity be a unifying factor for the Catholic and Orthodox Churches? Or is it seen as an obstacle?

Unfortunately, most Western Christians don’t even know what Eastern Orthodoxy is. There was a time when there was serious ecumenical discussion between the Eastern Orthodox and Anglican churches, but the Anglicans have chosen to move away from Apostolic Christianity. Most of the other mainline Protestant Churches are doing the same. In the process, Protestantism is only becoming more splintered.

Considering the rise of the Islamic State and other forces attacking Christianity, it’d be good thing for all the various sects, branches and denominations of Christianity to come together and unite. Not to mention its what Jesus prayed for.

The Islamist war against Christians has been going on for 1500 years. It has not exactly brought Christians closer together, has it?

 

[Seraphim73]

"I don’t think they can be a unifying force either because they don’t speak with one voice for one. They are self governing churches biased mainly on ethnicity/country and very independent of one another. Maybe one member of the communion could try but the branches can’t even all agree on the patriarch of Constantinople being the spiritual leader let alone some huge ecumenical work

-sorry, I messed up the quote a bit

I think the Orthodox do speak in one voice albeit differently than the Catholic Church does. The relationship between the hierarchy and the laity are different in both traditions. While the Magisterium speaks with one voice, the laity seems to speak with another. Catholics in America seem to hold to beliefs that contradict Church teaching (homosexuality, contraceptives to name a few). They tend to adopt the spirit of modernity with its emphasis on freedom of thought unfettered by ancient traditions. In my fallible opinion, I think this is caused by how easy it is to become a member of the Catholic Church. Once you complete RCIA, you’re in.

 In the Orthodox Church, what the clergy and laity believe are for the most part the same. Again, I think this has much to do with the process of joining the Orthodox Church which is harder and less structured than in the Roman Catholic Church. There is a long discerning process one has to go through even before becoming a catechumen. Then, you must wait for enlightenment, an encounter of sorts with the Truth that removes all doubt. Until you reach this point, I don't think a Priest would let you join (correct me if I am wrong Seraphim). My point being, no one can get into the Orthodox Church unless one believes everything it teaches to be true.

I think you will find this podcast by Father Thomas Hopko on the state of American Orthodoxy enlightening. He contrasts the unity of the Catholic Church with the unity of the Orthodox Church. ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/fr._tom_reflects_on_kevin_allens_retirement

You have the basic process down. The lengths of time before reception vary greatly depending on the priest and the person. But you are correct sometimes it can be a bit of a lengthy undertaking.

 

[RosslynV]

Love the idea! We are all brothers in Christ. The only problem is that the protestants and orthodox don’t adhere to papal authority, so ultimately it may not work.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

Love the idea! We are all brothers in Christ. The only problem is that the protestants and orthodox don’t adhere to papal authority, so ultimately it may not work.

It is not just papal authority. It is also the Trinity, grace, purgatory, justification, etc . The difference between the traditions is more than meets the eye. The differences are substantial.

 

[Tomdstone]

Again, I think this has much to do with the process of joining the Orthodox Church which is harder and less structured than in the Roman Catholic Church. There is a long discerning process one has to go through even before becoming a catechumen. Then, you must wait for enlightenment, an encounter of sorts with the Truth that removes all doubt. Until you reach this point, I don’t think a Priest would let you join (correct me if I am wrong Seraphim). My point being, no one can get into the Orthodox Church unless one believes everything it teaches to be true.

I am not sure. Possibly it might depend on the Orthodox Church you are joining and the priest who is assisting you. In some Eastern European countries, it is not difficult for a Catholic to become Orthodox.

 

[Tomdstone]

It is not just papal authority. It is also the Trinity, grace, purgatory, justification, etc . The difference between the traditions is more than meets the eye. The differences are substantial.

The Roman Catholic Church does not seem to want to budge one bit from those teachings which separate them from the Orthodox Church.

 

[prodromos]

If there is a consensus the Ecumenical Patriarch would speak for the Church.

I believe the Holy Spirit speaks for the Church through whomever He pleases. In the case of defending the married priesthood, it was a celebate monk who had been terribly tortured during the earlier persecution of the Church. Sometimes it has been priests and sometimes even bishops. It may be laymen at other times.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

This is really not on the topic, but yesterday I was at a wedding. Pretty good wedding too, but I’m digressing.

Amongst the attendees were people from a Presbyterian Church I used to attend.

I was interested to find that one of them and his subsequent family have joined the Antiochian Orthodox Church. They apparently have some services in English and some in Arabic. They don’t have their own building at this stage where they are, but I suppose they’ll get there eventually.

He and his family are of solid Australian stock with no Middle Eastern background, so I was a bit surprised. It seems I’m not the only one who moved out of the Protestant Church since I left all those years ago.

Except that I crossed the Tiber, and he decided to go Straight (Street), which apparently is where their head boy still lives in Damascus.

 

[Seraphim73]

I believe the Holy Spirit speaks for the Church through whomever He pleases. In the case of defending the married priesthood, it was a celebate monk who had been terribly tortured during the earlier persecution of the Church. Sometimes it has been priests and sometimes even bishops. It may be laymen at other times.

This is true. Patriarch Pavle of thrice blessed memory certainly spoke for the Church.

 

[andrewstx]

I’ve always shied away from participating in any orthodox services because most orthodox churches are based in Eastern European culture and language. Are there any orthodox churches which use English?

yes

 

[GEddie]

The Roman Catholic Church does not seem to want to budge one bit from those teachings which separate them from the Orthodox Church.

The feeling seems to be mutual.

I really do not think there will be reunion, short of in response to mass world persecution.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[EIF5A]

The feeling seems to be mutual.

I really do not think there will be reunion, short of in response to mass world persecution.

ICXC NIKA.

Aside from the papal authority issue, what other issue is directly contradictory? Everything else seems to be slightly different interpretation or description of the same thing, with a different ratio of mystical or scholastic language.

 

[Tomdstone]

Aside from the papal authority issue, what other issue is directly contradictory? Everything else seems to be slightly different interpretation or description of the same thing, with a different ratio of mystical or scholastic language.

The reuinion of Catholic and Orthodox could easily take place if the Catholic Church would change only a few things, such as:
infallibility and Supremacy of the Pope
filioque
Purgatory and indulgences
Baptism by triple immersion
Immaculate Conception and original sin
icons instead of statues
Making the sign of the cross correctly from right to left
Agree to the date for Easter
Reform the Mass to an older version, either Greek or Latin, and not allow clown Masses, puppet Masses, dancing women, charismatic Masses, etc.
No profane music at Mass.
Stricter fasting laws for Holy Communion and for Lent.
Allow married seminarians to become priests; optional celibacy.
Priests must wear beards, as a general rule but with some exceptions.
No marriage annulments except in very serious cases such as an undisclosed previous marriage.
The Sacrament of matrimony is administered by the priest, not by the couple. The crowning of the couple by the priest is required.
Allow Church sponsored divorce in certain restricted cases.
Holy Communion on the tongue, not on the hand.
These would be just a few things off the top of my head.

 

[GEddie]

The reuinion of Catholic and Orthodox could easily take place if the Catholic Church would change only a few things, such as:
infallibility and Supremacy of the Pope
filioque
Purgatory and indulgences
Baptism by triple immersion
Immaculate Conception and original sin
icons instead of statues
Making the sign of the cross correctly from right to left
Agree to the date for Easter
Reform the Mass to an older version, either Greek or Latin, and not allow clown Masses, puppet Masses, dancing women, charismatic Masses, etc.
No profane music at Mass.
Stricter fasting laws for Holy Communion and for Lent.
Allow married seminarians to become priests; optional celibacy.
Priests must wear beards, as a general rule but with some exceptions.
No marriage annulments except in very serious cases such as an undisclosed previous marriage.
The Sacrament of matrimony is administered by the priest, not by the couple. The crowning of the couple by the priest is required.
Allow Church sponsored divorce in certain restricted cases.
Holy Communion on the tongue, not on the hand.
These would be just a few things off the top of my head.

In other words, become Orthodox in every way. Won’t happen.

Compromise is a two way street, after all.

And some of your numerous items are just busybodying. I mean…beards???

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Tomdstone]

In other words, become Orthodox in every way. Won’t happen.

Compromise is a two way street, after all.

And some of your numerous items are just busybodying. I mean…beards???

ICXC NIKA.

The Catholic Popes have called for the restoration of full communion with the Eastern Orthodox, but if Catholics don’t want to make any small adjustments in the interest of unity, then what?

 

[GaryTaylor]

The Catholic Popes have called for the restoration of full communion with the Eastern Orthodox, but if Catholics don’t want to make any small adjustments in the interest of unity, then what?

Then we will be listening to the “Ecumenical Patriarch” and the see of Moscow debate over who has the “Supreme” authority as already mentioned on the thread, and we will see what small adjustments they are conceding with each other in regards to “equals”. Rather ironic I would say.

 

[EIF5A]

The reuinion of Catholic and Orthodox could easily take place if the Catholic Church would change only a few things, such as:
infallibility and Supremacy of the Pope
filioque
Purgatory and indulgences
Baptism by triple immersion
Immaculate Conception and original sin
icons instead of statues
Making the sign of the cross correctly from right to left
Agree to the date for Easter
Reform the Mass to an older version, either Greek or Latin, and not allow clown Masses, puppet Masses, dancing women, charismatic Masses, etc.
No profane music at Mass.
Stricter fasting laws for Holy Communion and for Lent.
Allow married seminarians to become priests; optional celibacy.
Priests must wear beards, as a general rule but with some exceptions.
No marriage annulments except in very serious cases such as an undisclosed previous marriage.
The Sacrament of matrimony is administered by the priest, not by the couple. The crowning of the couple by the priest is required.
Allow Church sponsored divorce in certain restricted cases.
Holy Communion on the tongue, not on the hand.
These would be just a few things off the top of my head.

I have to wonder how many of the above are because of handed-down tradition and how many are because of unchanging truth and what God desires.

For instance, the filioque and original sin/Immaculate Conception are language differences.

Why does Mass have to be in Greek or Latin? (And the colorful Masses you mention are certainly not common.)

But I guess more fasting/asceticism is a good thing…

I also have to wonder how God views this continual East vs. West debate. Innocent rivalry between young brothers who don’t know any better (I mean, who can perfectly understand the Holy Trinity and describe adequately in limited human terms?) or bitter resentment due to pride and desire to be the “correct, preferred” one?

 

[GaryTaylor]

The common bonds of orthodoxy imho is where thinking in many protestant areas becomes clear upon reflection. This is what imho should draw these peoples to mainline protestant in the ascent to orthodoxy.

However, I suppose its fair to say that our differences and history perhaps confirms fringe thinking also. You know we don’t elaborate perhaps enough on what we do agree on since in passing conversation these are often knowns, our conversation is very much centered around these knowns which leads to the discussions of difference and the thinking behind it.

 

[Seraphim73]

Then we will be listening to the “Ecumenical Patriarch” and the see of Moscow debate over who has the “Supreme” authority as already mentioned on the thread, and we will see what small adjustments they are conceding with each other in regards to “equals”. Rather ironic I would say.

No what’s actually ironic is that you think that’s what the argument is about.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

Priests must wear beards, as a general rule but with some exceptions.

I thought this was more of a traditional custom than a matter of doctrinal dispute.