Is Orthodoxy better suited for a secular world?

[ConstantineTG]

Ok. One more time. Your simply arguing that orthodoxy is passive in its evangelization.
How could that be a better thing then the catholic position. That’s like Jonah saying “I’m not gomna go to nineveh and tell those people what to do because they don’t believe in you anyways Lord”
Did all the martyrs die because they practiced “live and let live”

I didn’t say they are passive, but that the understanding of the faith and teaching it seems built on a premise that the environment is secular. Western faith obviously developed around an environment where kings and emperors were Christians and would submit to the Pope’s moral authority. The problem with that setup now is that in today’s highly secular world, it seems to

“The Eastern understanding of marriage seems to be independent to what the secular government identifies as marriage”

For example how so and where? And what makes you think this isn’t true in the West?

The West seems marriage as a contract, a vow between a man and a woman. The East sees marriage as a larger mystery where the family, beginning with the man and the wife, is an ecclesiastical unit that participates in the life of God as this unit.

Could you elaborate on this view? It is not my understanding of Western or Eastern theology of marriage at all. The West has the concept of natural marriage. A natural marriage, which is between two unbaptized persons, or a baptized person and an unbaptized person, is considered a true marriage, but it is not a sacramental marriage. Western theology most certainly respects the marriage of two Jews, or athiests, or Hindus, etc, and considers them to be married, in the eyes of God and the State. The only case in which a true marriage is considered not to have occurred is when a Catholic marries outside the Church. All other marriages are considered either Sacramental (between two Christians) or Natural. Catholics must enter into marriage with the blessing of the church, either in the Catholic Church, or with a dispensation (by economy, if you will) from the Bishop to be married outside of the Church. Orthodox Christians must be married by the priest, to a baptized individual, in an Orthodox ceremony. It is my understanding that it is not considered a “true marriage” otherwise. I could be wrong on that, but I do know that they are not permitted to receive Holy Communion if they have not been married in an Orthodox ceremony.

That is the thing, it is either a Christian marriage or not. Which means other people can define marriage however they like, but that is completely different from what an Orthodox sees as a Christian marriage. The Catholic viewpoint seem undetached from the Secular viewpoint. The only difference between a natural marriage and a sacramental marriage is the fact that the sacramental marriage is between a baptized man and a woman and is witnessed by the Church.

 

[Bezant]

Interesting thread…keep the discussion going.

 

[PeterJohn]

Perhaps I see The world as not secular vs religous but soley as Gods world. When I wake up and sit on my porch in the morning an watch cars and trucks go by, people going this way and that about their business, I view it all from a perspective that God is absolutely real and aware. I see these secular people as participating in the world where that God made Adam steward. This makes me wish that everyone would come to know and worship God. I think God wishes the same. Because of my belife when I see corruption of Gods laws, the very rod and staff that comfort me, I think about the Lords prayer… “they kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven”…

If I have a say in how my country operates. I will model it after perfection, Gods kingdom in heaven. Jesus brought about the presence of the heavenly Kingdom on earth, but he left us stewards of it when he ascended to sit at the Right hand of his father. When I am judged, if Christ asks me why I made the decisions I made in life, I’m going to be able to answer, “I modeled my life, the life of my family, and the life of my country, after your laws Lord, because I knew nothing more perfect to model them after”. To me, there is no detaching this world I wake up to, and the people in it from Gods world and Gods people, they are one and the same. I don’t know the east, but I know the west, and I know that God created the people all over the world and that this world belongs to Him even if those people don’t recognize that. Just because some people in this world are secular, doesn’t mean we should allow the desecration of Gods holy institutions like marriage. There is no, non-Christian revelation that comes from some other God. In other words, secular marriage had come about thousands of years ago not because secular people invented it, but because God set this world up so that anyone could see a model of his will and see his existence in nature.otherwise, wouldn’t it be weird that secularists invented a union that was soo similar to what we have as marriage? God allows us all to think and develop good things that spring forth from Him alone.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The West seems marriage as a contract, a vow between a man and a woman. The East sees marriage as a larger mystery where the family, beginning with the man and the wife, is an ecclesiastical unit that participates in the life of God as this unit…

Incorrect you can read the CCC on how the West views “marriage” as a Sacrament. You’ve reduced this to individuals then compared that to the whole of the East.

You have no idea how each couple view there Sacrament of Marriage, there relationship with the Lord or with themselves. The Church teaching can be read for the CC. The fact that individuals have issues East or West is a known.

All you can compare is what the Catechism East or West states. Thats what your reduced to here. What an individual couple does with this depends on them and there relationship with the Lord in correct understanding.

“Is” Orthodoxy better suited for the secular world? Where and how so?

“The East sees marriage as a larger mystery where the family, beginning with the man and the wife, is an ecclesiastical unit that participates in the life of God as this unit.”

Sounds like a line out of the CCC, and then comes reality East and West.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Perhaps I see The world as not secular vs religous but soley as Gods world. When I wake up and sit on my porch in the morning an watch cars and trucks go by, people going this way and that about their business, I view it all from a perspective that God is absolutely real and aware. I see these secular people as participating in the world where that God made Adam steward. This makes me wish that everyone would come to know and worship God. I think God wishes the same. Because of my belife when I see corruption of Gods laws, the very rod and staff that comfort me, I think about the Lords prayer… “they kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven”…

If I have a say in how my country operates. I will model it after perfection, Gods kingdom in heaven. Jesus brought about the presence of the heavenly Kingdom on earth, but he left us stewards of it when he ascended to sit at the Right hand of his father. When I am judged, if Christ asks me why I made the decisions I made in life, I’m going to be able to answer, “I modeled my life, the life of my family, and the life of my country, after your laws Lord, because I knew nothing more perfect to model them after”. To me, there is no detaching this world I wake up to, and the people in it from Gods world and Gods people, they are one and the same. I don’t know the east, but I know the west, and I know that God created the people all over the world and that this world belongs to Him even if those people don’t recognize that. Just because some people in this world are secular, doesn’t mean we should allow the desecration of Gods holy institutions like marriage. There is no, non-Christian revelation that comes from some other God. In other words, secular marriage had come about thousands of years ago not because secular people invented it, but because God set this world up so that anyone could see a model of his will and see his existence in nature.otherwise, wouldn’t it be weird that secularists invented a union that was soo similar to what we have as marriage? God allows us all to think and develop good things that spring forth from Him alone.

I agree, and I would hope others contemplate their relationships on a deeper level of eternity also.