Is Orthodoxy better to deal with today's society?

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Cavaradossi said:
Yeah, he totally isn’t doing that. He is saying just the opposite, that acknowledging that we exist in a post-Christian society is the way forward. I don’t recall where Constantine mentioned nationalism in his post.
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No I disagree he is saying exactly what I am claiming he is saying. As Christians we are not all called to live cloistered lives away from the world. Most of us are called to be laymen for a reason. Why because when the Church decides to stop being a positive influence on society is when the Church ceases to be a true witness to Christ. We are called to shine our light from the top of the hill not to cover it with a basket.

The reason why this society is becoming “post Christian” is because of two things. Christians are too busy fighting amongst themselves and that many Christians have ceased to see the Church for what it really is, which is Christ’s witness to the world. Most Christians see the Church as nothing more than a place to go and feel good about themselves and nothing more. Until these two things change we will continue to slip.

That being said, even though we are loosing right now, it doesn’t mean we should just stop fighting. It may seem hopeless right now but there is something we should all remember. We have God on our side.
 
Only read the first page so if I am reiterating something bare with me.

First I have a mager problem with people trying to say that a period before was a “christian” period of time. Granted I do not know church history that well but I do know history and the majority of people in any nation were never christian. You can argue with me if you like but the truth of the matter is there always a large number of people claiming to be christians. At least by the parts of the church that are not prosecuted. I can’t count how many people I have come across that say they are a christian but think that this only requires them to go to church on sunday. I quote someone I know not, who said “sitting in a church makes you a chrisian just as much as sitting in a garage make you a car”. I digress, anyway my point is there is no time that can be claimed as a christian period.

Second I agree with whoever claims that are main concern should be evangelism. Conversion of people changes their views not religion. Orthodoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism or any other religious faction of christianity have their strong and weak points. Each of these members of the church bring different people to Christ(technically the father draws them). Though we are different we still need to work towards the same goal which is conversion. Many true christians I know are under the delusion that evangelism is a gift. I due grant that some are more gifted than others but this is not an excuse to not evangelize.I understand it doesn’t stop at conversion so don’t troll me please.

Finally people want answers. Answers they are not getting from the christian community. Many christians forget that we need to be salt and light to the world ready for those opportunities that we are presented with to share the gospel and defend the faith.
 
Woody87 said:
Only read the first page so if I am reiterating something bare with me.

First I have a mager problem with people trying to say that a period before was a “christian” period of time. Granted I do not know church history that well but I do know history and the majority of people in any nation were never christian. You can argue with me if you like but the truth of the matter is there always a large number of people claiming to be christians. At least by the parts of the church that are not prosecuted. I can’t count how many people I have come across that say they are a christian but think that this only requires them to go to church on sunday. I quote someone I know not, who said “sitting in a church makes you a chrisian just as much as sitting in a garage make you a car”. I digress, anyway my point is there is no time that can be claimed as a christian period.

Second I agree with whoever claims that are main concern should be evangelism. Conversion of people changes their views not religion. Orthodoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism or any other religious faction of christianity have their strong and weak points. Each of these members of the church bring different people to Christ(technically the father draws them). Though we are different we still need to work towards the same goal which is conversion. Many true christians I know are under the delusion that evangelism is a gift. I due grant that some are more gifted than others but this is not an excuse to not evangelize.I understand it doesn’t stop at conversion so don’t troll me please.

Finally people want answers. Answers they are not getting from the christian community. Many christians forget that we need to be salt and light to the world ready for those opportunities that we are presented with to share the gospel and defend the faith.
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Look up St. Vladimir of Kiev, St. Constantine, and pre-bolshevik Russia.
 
lssanjose said:
From what I understand some of these counter actions may have been in response to much of the persecution, and forced conversion among the indigenous people. If you look at the rise of Western Europe, Roman Catholicism was something instituted, or imposed on a population en mass.

For example, brothers ConstantineTG, Crescentius’s; as well as my birthplace, the Philippines, endured a Spanish infusion (for both good, and bad), which made Roman Catholicism the majority religion.

In China, there’s the group of Chinese Martyrs; and the Boxer Rebellion. The latter clearly wanted Western influence out of China (some accounts have it something as schemed by Jesuits, but I won’t go there).
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Does any of this lessen the persecution?

I can’t believe the claims made here (on the thread, not specifically by you Issanjoe). Spain and Portugal were once entirely ruled by Muslims, (and not just over a short period of time) and later by fascists who made many many martyrs out of the church- in Spain just recently, too, in the 20th century. Where are we getting this?
 
Marybeloved said:
Does any of this lessen the persecution?

I can’t believe the claims made here (on the thread, not specifically by you Issanjoe). Spain and Portugal were once entirely ruled by Muslims, (and not just over a short period of time) and later by fascists who made many many martyrs out of the church- in Spain just recently, too, in the 20th century. Where are we getting this?
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Sister Marybeloved, I can’t say, either way. Both sides have been guilty (as well pointed out, by Brother Marduk, the colonial part).
 
mardukm said:
Yes, I was ignorant. That was why I asked the question.🤷 You response is rather triumphalistic, sorry to say in that light (I mean, I was just asking a question).
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Sorry if I came off as triumphalistic. There is very little triumph to be found right now in the affairs between the EP and the Turkish state.
 
lssanjose said:
Sister Marybeloved, I can’t say, either way. Both sides have hbeen guilty (as well pointed out, by Brother Marduk, the colonial part).
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It’s not about historical errors of the church. It’s the false implication that Latin Catholics have not endured terrible persecution throughout History.
 
Marybeloved said:
It’s not about historical errors of the church. It’s the false implication that Latin Catholics have not endured terrible persecution throughout History.
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I’m just trying to understand brother Constantine’s points. I’m.agreeing Latin Catholics have faced persecution, during history. But, it’s true, also, it’s enjoying relative peace, because of its size. In contrast, middle east Christians don’t have the support, or apparati to have such, whereas Latin counterparts have established pieces, in place.
 
crazzeto said:
Correct, the Roman Catholic Church has never faced persecution… Apart from:

Turn of the Century Portugal, Mexico durring the Cristero Revolution, Communist Russia, China (today), Vietnam (today), Middle East, Ancient Rome, Muslim Take over of many lands including Spain, N. Africa even parts of Italy, the Albegencian Heresy in France, the many persecutions orchestrated by power hungry monarchs.

Apart from all this, the Roman Catholic church has known nothing but pease, prosperity and happyness (list not complete).
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Don’t forget Catholics of the British Isles during the Penal/Cromwellian era…much of which influenced the early American Anti-Catholicism
 
Celticnovice said:
Don’t forget Catholics of the British Isles during the Penal/Cromwellian era…much of which influenced the early American Anti-Catholicism
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And this early American anti-Catholicism evolved into the American anti-Catholicism of today.
 
lssanjose said:
I’m just trying to understand brother Constantine’s points. I’m.agreeing Latin Catholics have faced persecution, during history. But, it’s true, also, it’s enjoying relative peace, because of its size. In contrast, middle east Christians don’t have the support, or apparati to have such, whereas Latin counterparts have established pieces, in place.
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Are middle Eastern Christians the only Eastern Christians? By your logic, Eastern Orthodox have enjoyed relative peace because a big part of it has been outside the middle East (Greece and Eastern Europe) for the great part of History. Also, you were not ‘‘just trying to understand Constantine’’- (you keep throwing stuff to him when challenged about statements of your own making 🤷). You yourself made assertions, you should be able to back up what you say, not use Constantine as a shield.
 
Marybeloved said:
Are middle Eastern Christians the only Eastern Christians? By your logic, Eastern Orthodox have enjoyed relative peace because a big part of it has been outside the middle East (Greece and Eastern Europe). 🤷
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Sister Marybeloved, please don’t assume my logic. I’m not saying that regarding Orthodoxy, in the Eastern sector. I’m thinking, of all the places, within Christendom, the Middle East is the area with sporadic media coverage. I’d let the issues, pertaining to Orthodoxy; and persecution be discussed by our Orthodox brethren.
 
lssanjose said:
Sister Marybeloved, please don’t assume my logic. I’m not saying that regarding Orthodoxy, in the Eastern sector. I’m thinking, of all the places, within Christendom, the Middle East is the area with sporadic media coverage. I’d let the issues, pertaining to Orthodoxy; and persecution be discussed by our Orthodox brethren.
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If it’s about the middle-Eastern Christians compared to the other non-middle Eastern Christians then what’s the concern here bout mentioning non-middle Eastern Orthodox? Right- You get to say that Catholicism has enjoyed relative peace because a big part is not in the middle East (in support of Constantine who compared it with the Orthodox, by the way) and now you want to hide under ‘‘please, lets not mention the Orthodox, even though the implication here is that they have suffered more’’? O come on, bother! Surely even you can see your bias here. :confused:
 
Marybeloved said:
Right- you get to say that Catholicism has enjoyed relative peace because a big part is not in the middle East (in support of Constantine who compared it with the Orthodox, by the way) and now you want to hide under ‘‘please, lets not mention the Orthodox, even though the implication here is that they have suffered more’’? O come on!
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Huh? Where did you get that idea from? Why are you presuming to know what I mean by relative peace? IF you’re not sure, ask.
 
lssanjose said:
Huh? Where did you get that idea from? Why are you presuming to know what I mean by relative peace? IF you’re not sure, ask.
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Why are you deflecting the issue? No one is arguing about relative peace meaning- you already explained what you meant- comparison with Christian middle East. You just said that you were merely comparing middle Eastern Christians and the rest of Christendom. Are the orthodox now excluded from Christendom?
 
Just a thought …

Christians from the Apostolic age forward have suffered persecution, sometimes even at the hand of fellow Christians. History is what it is, and we must honestly acknowledge it and move on in peace and fellowship.

Our concern should be for our fellow Christians and other faithful people of goodwill who today are persecuted for their faith, or live in constant fear even if not directly persecuted for their faith.

Lord have mercy!
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Just a thought …

Christians from the Apostolic age forward have suffered persecution, sometimes even at the hand of fellow Christians. History is what it is, and we must honestly acknowledge it and move on in peace and fellowship.

Our concern should be for our fellow Christians and other faithful people of good will who today are persecuted for their faith, or live in constant fear even if not directly persecuted for their faith.

Lord have mercy!
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Amen!
 
Marybeloved said:
Why are you deflecting the issue? You just said that you were merely comparing middle Eastern Christians and the rest of Christendom. Are the orthodox now excluded from Christendom?
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No, they’re not. But, being I’m not as versed on Orthodoxy Church history, as I am - in contrast to - Roman Catholicism Church history, I’m leaving them out of the picture, as there are probably people better suited to address that, than I am.
 
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