Is "other people do it" ever a valid argument?

[TheLittleLady]

Wearing a bikini is a prudential matter, it is an article of clothing not an article of faith.

In articles of faith, it does not matter if the whole world is doing the opposite, the truth is still the truth.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

The speeding thing was an EXAMPLE, not a topic to be debated. I clearly stated that in my first post.

I know. When I said it wasn’t the best hypothetical, I was referring more to my own hypothetical, not disparaging yours. And then I was thinking after I typed my hypothetical that it is hard to use speeding as one of the examples because in most situations it is not all that morally problematic (though of course there are times when it can be, depending on location and if you are speeding enough to be dangerous).

 

[Pug]

I find that many useful things can be learned by watching what other people do. However, depending on what type of answer you seek, it can misled. For example, how should one act with respect to the refrigerator at work? If you want to know what is the easiest thing to do, observation will tell you to leave your unwanted food there forever, since person X will inevitably throw it out for you if you hold out long enough. If you want to know what will be the most unobtrusive thing to do, observation will tell you not to place two large hot garlic pizzas in there.

But if you want to know what is right to do with the refrigerator, well, then it is a matter of whom you wish to be in sync with and in what way. Observe them if you want to act like them and listen to them (and modify the result by observation) if you want to avoid opprobrium.

 

[Horton]

the truth is still the truth.

The truth is always the truth regardless of what it pertains to.

 

[PetraG]

No, “other people do it” is never a valid argument. Something that is wrong is always wrong regardless of the number of people doing it. Take speeding, a percentage of the population will go over the speed limit, even if slightly. Just because “other people do it” does not make it less of a wrong.

Actually, that depends on what secular law says on the matter. Since it has jurisdiction to set the speed limit, which is otherwise more or less arbitrary, secular law can deem driving conditions are a mitigating factor concerning how binding the posted speed limit is. A moral person is bound to follow the law, but knowledge of the law could theoretically tell the driver when prevailing conditions (including what “everyone else is doing”) allows one to drive faster or requires one to drive more slowly than the posted limit. (I suppose this is kind of like knowing when one has to observe a particluar stop sign and when one doesn’t.) Obviously, moral law might even require violating the posted limit or some other secular law when necessary: for instance, if doing otherwise would be a threat to safety.

As for the OP’s question, yes, cultural conditions can change what behavior is going to cause scandal or present a near occasion of sin and so forth, so what other people typically do can affect how a reasonable person would judge their actions will affect others. The times when “it depends” is a valid argument depends on why a particular rule for correct behavior was deemed to be correct in the first place. If the conditions justifying the reason change, then the rule might change.

 

[Horton]

Actually, that depends on what secular law says on the matter.

I also never mentioned the law. I said wrong is wrong. Once again I am not going to debate speeding, it is not the topic here.

 

[PetraG]

I also never mentioned the law. I said wrong is wrong. Once again I am not going to debate speeding, it is not the topic here.

The original question was about modesty in dress, which absolutely is both cultural and a matter of law. If I went out in 1860 the way I do now, they would have locked me up.

 

[blackforest]

Has the circumstance altered the deed enough that in one case it is a sin, but in the other, blameless? Or is it irrelevant, equally sinful (or not sinful) in both cases?

If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you’re trying to distinguish between cultural standards and objective moral standards.

I’d argue, much to the chagrin of other CAFers, that modesty standards are cultural, with some beaches full of bikinis and others with burkhinis. By contrast, actions like stealing or killing a defenseless, innocent human are objectively wrong regardless of culture.

I don’t think it’s necessarily sinful to go against cultural standards; but it’s very often foolish.