Is our capitalistic economy headed to corporatism?

[white_sheep]

Big corporations are the efficient ones. Take a close look around you and see the immense workmanship done through corporations. Small business cannot compete, nor should they.

hahahaha, well I disagree with much of that. Big corps are often terribly inefficient. They do a great many things, you are right about that. Small business can’t always fulfill the need that a big corp can, hence the need for some corporate charters to be granted, but given an even playing field, they can compete with big corps.

I tell you what, the next time you need an a/c replaced or a big plumbing job done, call the biggest company in town and then the local guy and see who is doing it most efficiently per dollar spent on your part.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

The problem here is that most of us are probably unqualified to discuss these terms.

Why should that stop us? I don’t know if anyone else fears this. But, my biggest concern, is that Russia, and China will use a form of capitalism that is so ruthless that we will not be able to compete. The Chinese model, of deploying troops to protect business ventures. Will most likely, only be the beginning.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? (not to hijack the thread of course)

ATB

 

[white_sheep]

Why should that stop us? I don’t know if anyone else fears this. But, my biggest concern, is that Russia, and China will use a form of capitalism that is so ruthless that we will not be able to compete. The Chinese model, of deploying troops to protect business ventures. Will most likely, only be the beginning.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? (not to hijack the thread of course)

ATB

Those sort of tactics are extremely inefficient overall and can only be used in a limited fashion.

To me the biggest concern is when so few people own the means to production. It is far better when more people own capital, for them, society, everyone. And I’m not talking about how much money anyone makes.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

Actually, this would most likely make politicians more suseptible to the influence of “donations”. What we’ve seen, is an increase pressure from the corporate world. To move public held institutions,into the hands of private corporations. They reason, that a weakend government will be less able to oppose their will. We see examples of this all of the time. EU countries are currently weathering a veritable blitzkrig of pressure to privatize. We wouldn’t want to forget, that corporate greed has brought hard times to these countries, and their people.

“EU countries are currently weathering a veritable blitzkrig of pressure to privatize.” Are you kidding me?! Is that why Greece just voted in the Nationalist-Socialist(aka Nazi) party? Is that why France just went further to the left voting in a Socialist president.

What you’re seeing in the EU as well as in China is called “state-capitalism”. It is state influenced and heavily regulated companies. It’s what our government “tested” with GM and Chrysler. The corporations know that through their “donations” the government in power will use the government to pick winners and losers through regulation and the tax codes.

What has brought hard times to the EU is their austerity measures imposed by these same governments.

What are austerity measures? Massive cutbacks in government programs followed by crippling taxes! The same “comprehensive” approach that liberals in our government propose and which even the NYT says do not work.

So you got it backwards. It’s government controlling and/or “overseeing” more companies not private companies controlling government.

Oil producers, are putting pressure on congress to neuter the EPA. Time and again, they have attempted to portray themselves as victims of government regulation. When in fact, they are the recipients of a great amount of public largesse. In the form of large tax breaks. Tax breaks they certainly don’t require, in these times of record profits. They just want to be able to drill without fear of consequences from their impact on the enviroment.

These are just a couple of examples, to highlight the mistake in your reasoning.

Again, if our federal governemnt wasn’t in the business of picking winners and losers through the tax code you wouldn’t have this sort of meddling. “Tax breaks”? Are you really arguing under the premise that any money earned by any person or company is first the property of the geovernment(federal, state, or otherwise)?

1. The money that those companies make is first and foremost theirs. If their taxed 35% up front and through “tax breaks” they really only pay 15% then that’s still 15% of their money going towards government and their massive wastes in spending, not 15% less of the government’s money.

2)Who are you to decide what a company “requires” per their revenue? I wonder how comfortable you would be with that same government deciding what you “require” per your income.

3)That you would call to question their character in your last remark is astounding as well. Who are you thet you know so much of their intent? That you would characterize oil companies as a bunch of irresponsible nit-wits that want nothing more than to destroy the environment. While you ignore the oppresive regulations formed by this president and his EPA that because of them we haven’t had a new refinery built in this country in over 20 years.

We have Warren Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway who bought Berligton Northern in 2009.

We have this same company who donated money to Senator Ben Nelson’s re-election.

And now this same senator, along with Buffet are blocking the keystone pipeline from going through Nebraska so that Burlington Northen can carry the oil from Nebraska to Texas.
On the Keystone Pipeline

This is not private influence of the state. This is collusion between the state and certain companies that favored them.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

“EU countries are currently weathering a veritable blitzkrig of pressure to privatize.” Are you kidding me?! Is that why Greece just voted in the Nationalist-Socialist(aka Nazi) party? Is that why France just went further to the left voting in a Socialist president.

What you’re seeing in the EU as well as in China is called “state-capitalism”. It is state influenced and heavily regulated companies. It’s what our government “tested” with GM and Chrysler. The corporations know that through their “donations” the government in power will use the government to pick winners and losers through regulation and the tax codes.

What has brought hard times to the EU is their austerity measures imposed by these same governments.

What are austerity measures? Massive cutbacks in government programs followed by crippling taxes! The same “comprehensive” approach that liberals in our government propose and which even the NYT says do not work.

So you got it backwards. It’s government controlling and/or “overseeing” more companies not private companies controlling government.

Again, if our federal governemnt wasn’t in the business of picking winners and losers through the tax code you wouldn’t have this sort of meddling. “Tax breaks”? Are you really arguing under the premise that any money earned by any person or company is first the property of the geovernment(federal, state, or otherwise)?

1. The money that those companies make is first and foremost theirs. If their taxed 35% up front and through “tax breaks” they really only pay 15% then that’s still 15% of their money going towards government and their massive wastes in spending, not 15% less of the government’s money.

2)Who are you to decide what a company “requires” per their revenue? I wonder how comfortable you would be with that same government deciding what you “require” per your income.

3)That you would call to question their character in your last remark is astounding as well. Who are you thet you know so much of their intent? That you would characterize oil companies as a bunch of irresponsible nit-wits that want nothing more than to destroy the environment. While you ignore the oppresive regulations formed by this president and his EPA that because of them we haven’t had a new refinery built in this country in over 20 years.

We have Warren Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway who bought Berligton Northern in 2009.

We have this same company who donated money to Senator Ben Nelson’s re-election.

And now this same senator, along with Buffet are blocking the keystone pipeline from going through Nebraska so that Burlington Northen can carry the oil from Nebraska to Texas.
On the Keystone Pipeline

This is not private influence of the state. This is collusion between the state and certain companies that favored them.

Ah, in the first part you seem to agree with what I’ve said. Then you end by saying, I have it backwards. I think the elections you mention in greece and france show a populace that is rejecting the dictates of both the EU, and IMF. They don’t want to operate a country for the benefit of bond holders.

1. the Government has the right to levy taxes. (for the publics benefit)
2. They do decide, what I require.
3. I don’t consider the oil companies, or big energy in general, to be nit-wits. But I do believe they would behave in an irresposible manner. If they are not regulated.

ATB