Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant?

[numealinesimpet]

Looking at this world, I think the best thing to do is simply pray the rosary and for Russia, and do everything out of love and sacrifice for our Lord…the morning offering and penance.

What people were yesterday are not the same today…or tomorrow. Can’t judge. Hold everyone in good faith.

Our Lord warns us very seriously against judging each other’s motives, but we may be under an obligation to judge each other’s actions. Antonio Socci is extremely charitable towards the people in the Vatican who he says are trying to suppress the whole truth about Fatima, but he warns them that they are putting the Catholic Church at peril by exposing her to the risk of blackmail; & Fr Kramer warns that they are putting the world itself at peril if it is indeed true that “various nations will be annihilated” if the Collegial Consecration is not carried out.

 

[numealinesimpet]

Some things never can be proven wrong.

What things in particular do you mean? The facts I am reporting, with legitimate references? I hope you are not saying here that you have decided not to believe them, even though you can’t prove it? Pardon me, but that’s what I understand you to be saying. If this is so, what is your basis for it?

Any and all evidence, hearings and rulings are deemed to be part of the “party line”

I do have to wonder, with respect, whether you have actually read any of Socci’s or Fr Kramer’s books at all. The Party Line, as they call it, is quite a definite and concise message: that the Third Secret is about the 1981 attack on the pope, and Fatima is now over and done with except for a general exortation to prayer. The authors I have cited give the concrete reasons why this can no longer be maintained – particularly the new evidence from Cdl Capovilla and the “Capovilla envelope”.

and part of the vaaaaassst conspiracy. That is the problem with conspiracy theories.

What do you call a conspiracy theory? Any idea you disagree with, perhaps? Or do you deny that there are ever any conspiracies anywhere? You see, if the answer is “no”, you must have some basis for judging them. I tend to discount any “theory” which sounds plausible once you accept it, but which has no other backing evidence. This is not so in the following instance. We are not talking about imagined secret meetings, but about actual public statements from Cdl Capovilla, Cdl Bertone, and others, that can be verified, and which disprove what is being called “The Party Line”. I have already cited some of these statements. Another poster stated that Sr Lucy had said publicly that the consecrations were accepted. I have asked for the link to this, so that we can consider and perhaps debate it. That is what I call a debate. Throwing around phrases like “ part of the vaaaaassst conspiracy” is on a much lower level.

And if all else fails, trot out the same anticatholic propaganda that the media has been peddling to muddy the waters. Anticatholics too use the misdeeds of some to paint a broadbrush over the whole Catholic Church. I wasn’t going to post on this thread until I saw this statement. I am saddened to see any Catholic take such a cheap and unfair shot. Then you actually end with:

This is because I pointed out that the trads have been hounded for years, while the homosexuals have been protected. Instead of indulging in too much righteous indignation, check the records and you will find that this is accurate. I’ll get another posting on this when I can track down what I have in mind for it.

Yes, of course the enemies of the Church are making a meal of it at the moment. But really and truly, the Church has been riding for a fall on this issue for decades, and significantly the Trads have been trying to warn some of the others in the church, also for decades.

{cartoon of cowboy}: BANG! BANG!

“The anger of man does not work the righteousness of God” (James 1:20)

 

[antunesaa]

All one needs for clarification to the Popes statement, “highest danger to the church is from the inside,” is to follow this post from its inception.Outright attacks on the Pope, the Vatican, Sr. Lucia etc. all under the disclaimer that private revelation belief is not required.
It has been said that the first two messages of Fatima are Penance and Penance!!
It warmed my heart to watch the Beautiful Liturgy from Lisbon last night.This evening the Pope will visit Fatima for his first time. Tomorrow is the 93rd anniversity of the first appearance by Our Lady. This Pope visit, in itself, answers the question " Is Our Lady of Fatima still Relevant?"

It was really awesome in Lisbon and Fátima. I was at the Mass in Terreiro do Paço. The scenario was splendid and the Holy Father exhorted the faithful not to be afraid, like JP II used to say often. He also said we should give an active testimony of our faith, both through actions and example. Because we were by the Cais das Colunas (the harbor from where so many ships left Europe, packed with missionaries and settlers), he was particularly gentle with the Portuguese, praising their contribution to the spread of Christianity to the Americas, Africa, and Asia. The consecration moment was awesome: the prayers were recited in Latim by Benedict XVI and a few other bishops, the chants were also in Latim. The light had the typical and famous Lisbon yellow glow; behind the shrine floated many ships, adorned with colorful flags. There was a gentle breeze and the people remained absolutely silent after the celebrants ended the consecration. It was unforgettable!

Yesterday night in Fátima, we prayed the rosary with the Holy Father, followed by the Mass by Cardinal Bertone. His homily emphasized the simplicity of children, as he reminded us of the example of Francisco and Jacinta. He used a very nice comparison between Jesus, the Trinitarian pilgrim to Earth, bringing with Him the rightful costumes and laws of the Divine life, and the pilgrims there, bringing with them their colorful clothes, habits and ways of living. The Mass ended after midnight.

Today it was the apotheosis. There were about 500,000 people at the esplanade, from many, many countries, judging by the flags: Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, US, UK, the Netherlands, Brazil, Poland, Mexico, Venezuela, China, Korea, Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Angola, Mozambique, Japan, South Africa, Australia, Russia, Ukraine, etc., etc. There were many young people, especially from charismatic movements of many countries: Neocathecumenal Way; Focolare; etc. The sun was bright after some showers in the morning. We prayed the rosary between 9am and 9:45am, when the Holy Father arrived. The initial procession was beautiful, as was the whole celebration. So many were the people that I couldn’t have Communion. The Pope emphasized again the need to give a Catholic testimony. We, Catholics, have to reveal to the world our happiness and the beautiful spiritual gifts from God. Then there was the Farewell Procession. Hundreds of thousands of colorful flags and white handkerchieves waving at the image of Our Lady. AWESOME. It was unique experience I’ll remember and cherish for the rest of my life. I still have to read the homilies and read the press analyses. Now I am tired and I feel almost dizzy, like with a hangover. I’m going to pray the rosary and sleep. See you one of these days!

 

[thomas_jd]

It was really awesome in Lisbon and Fátima. I was at the Mass in Terreiro do Paço. The scenario was splendid and the Holy Father exhorted the faithful not to be afraid, like JP II used to say often. He also said we should give an active testimony of our faith, both through actions and example. Because we were by the Cais das Colunas (the harbor from where so many ships left Europe, packed with missionaries and settlers), he was particularly gentle with the Portuguese, praising their contribution to the spread of Christianity to the Americas, Africa, and Asia. The consecration moment was awesome: the prayers were recited in Latim by Benedict XVI and a few other bishops, the chants were also in Latim. The light had the typical and famous Lisbon yellow glow; behind the shrine floated many ships, adorned with colorful flags. There was a gentle breeze and the people remained absolutely silent after the celebrants ended the consecration. It was unforgettable!

Yesterday night in Fátima, we prayed the rosary with the Holy Father, followed by the Mass by Cardinal Bertone. His homily emphasized the simplicity of children, as he reminded us of the example of Francisco and Jacinta. He used a very nice comparison between Jesus, the Trinitarian pilgrim to Earth, bringing with Him the rightful costumes and laws of the Divine life, and the pilgrims there, bringing with them their colorful clothes, habits and ways of living. The Mass ended after midnight.

Today it was the apotheosis. There were about 500,000 people at the esplanade, from many, many countries, judging by the flags: Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, US, UK, the Netherlands, Brazil, Poland, Mexico, Venezuela, China, Korea, Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Angola, Mozambique, Japan, South Africa, Australia, Russia, Ukraine, etc., etc. There were many young people, especially from charismatic movements of many countries: Neocathecumenal Way; Focolare; etc. The sun was bright after some showers in the morning. We prayed the rosary between 9am and 9:45am, when the Holy Father arrived. The initial procession was beautiful, as was the whole celebration. So many were the people that I couldn’t have Communion. The Pope emphasized again the need to give a Catholic testimony. We, Catholics, have to reveal to the world our happiness and the beautiful spiritual gifts from God. Then there was the Farewell Procession. Hundreds of thousands of colorful flags and white handkerchieves waving at the image of Our Lady. AWESOME. It was unique experience I’ll remember and cherish for the rest of my life. I still have to read the homilies and read the press analyses. Now I am tired and I feel almost dizzy, like with a hangover. I’m going to pray the rosary and sleep. See you one of these days!

I would like to thank you for that beautiful and quite elegant narrative. I watched the telecasts as much as I could. Last nites rosary was all I was able to see. I missed the Cardinals mass.
Today was a very special day for those of us who try to follow and live the message of Fatima. I had the special privilege of serving at Holy Mass, the Homily on Fatima was outstanding! The priest faced the high altar and we had hundreds receive knelling at the altar rail. All day Eucharistic Adoration with hourly rosary and Litany for the priests. We had two seperate buses arrive from thirty to forty mile distances.
We brought school children to join us in a May Crowning. They filled vase after vase of flowers at Our Ladys Feet. I gave a talk on Fatima highlighting the significance of the
angels distribution of the Eucharist to the children. We watched a movie on Sister Lucia.
I think each of us in our own way have answered the query regarding the relevance of Fatima.

 

[Marie5890]

It was really awesome in Lisbon and Fátima. I was at the Mass in Terreiro do Paço. The scenario was splendid and the Holy Father exhorted the faithful not to be afraid, like JP II used to say often. He also said we should give an active testimony of our faith, both through actions and example. Because we were by the Cais das Colunas (the harbor from where so many ships left Europe, packed with missionaries and settlers), he was particularly gentle with the Portuguese, praising their contribution to the spread of Christianity to the Americas, Africa, and Asia. The consecration moment was awesome: the prayers were recited in Latim by Benedict XVI and a few other bishops, the chants were also in Latim. The light had the typical and famous Lisbon yellow glow; behind the shrine floated many ships, adorned with colorful flags. There was a gentle breeze and the people remained absolutely silent after the celebrants ended the consecration. It was unforgettable!

Yesterday night in Fátima, we prayed the rosary with the Holy Father, followed by the Mass by Cardinal Bertone. His homily emphasized the simplicity of children, as he reminded us of the example of Francisco and Jacinta. He used a very nice comparison between Jesus, the Trinitarian pilgrim to Earth, bringing with Him the rightful costumes and laws of the Divine life, and the pilgrims there, bringing with them their colorful clothes, habits and ways of living. The Mass ended after midnight.

Today it was the apotheosis. There were about 500,000 people at the esplanade, from many, many countries, judging by the flags: Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, US, UK, the Netherlands, Brazil, Poland, Mexico, Venezuela, China, Korea, Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Angola, Mozambique, Japan, South Africa, Australia, Russia, Ukraine, etc., etc. There were many young people, especially from charismatic movements of many countries: Neocathecumenal Way; Focolare; etc. The sun was bright after some showers in the morning. We prayed the rosary between 9am and 9:45am, when the Holy Father arrived. The initial procession was beautiful, as was the whole celebration. So many were the people that I couldn’t have Communion. The Pope emphasized again the need to give a Catholic testimony. We, Catholics, have to reveal to the world our happiness and the beautiful spiritual gifts from God. Then there was the Farewell Procession. Hundreds of thousands of colorful flags and white handkerchieves waving at the image of Our Lady. AWESOME. It was unique experience I’ll remember and cherish for the rest of my life. I still have to read the homilies and read the press analyses. Now I am tired and I feel almost dizzy, like with a hangover. I’m going to pray the rosary and sleep. See you one of these days!

antunesaa, I want to thank you so much for sharing. Like Thomas jd, I was watching a telecast of both Vespers, later the Rosary and then this morning’s Mass with the Pope. I know I wasnt there in person but I was so edified and strengthened.

Your own personal witness just adds to the experience of those of us who watched from a distance but prayed with the faithful present, nontheless.

Thanks for taking the time to share!!

God Bless you!!

 

[pnewton]

“The anger of man does not work the righteousness of God” (James 1:20)

“Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar” - Sigmund Freud

 

[numealinesimpet]

It was really awesome in Lisbon and Fátima. … I’m going to pray the rosary and sleep. See you one of these days!

To add my thanks, antunesaa.
In 1983 I saw a video of Fatima with the Final Procession and the tradition of the white handkerchiefs. But the choir singing the Fatima Ave – I don’t know any Portugese but the expression in the hymn was more beautiful than anything I’ve heard before or since, & I still remember it.
The Holy Father said, in his Coronation speech, “Pray for me, that I may not flee for fear of the wolves”. Well, he’s keeping to his word.

 

[At_Trent]

papastronsay.blogspot.com/2010/05/profound-need-to-learn-penance-again.html

 

[Dempsey1919]

I find it very interesting that Pope Benedict decided to visit Fatima just weeks after he received the SSPX Rosary Bouquet asking for the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart. I think the Rosary Bouquet definitely influenced Pope Benedict’s decision to visit Fatima.

I have been reading the speeches made by the Holy Father at Fatima, and he has said some very interesting things, such as:

**We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete. **Here there takes on new life the plan of God which asks humanity from the beginning: “Where is your brother Abel …] Your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground!” (Gen 4:9). Mankind has succeeded in unleashing a cycle of death and terror, but failed in bringing it to an end… In sacred Scripture we often find that God seeks righteous men and women in order to save the city of man and he does the same here, in Fatima, when Our Lady asks: “Do you want to offer yourselves to God, to endure all the sufferings which he will send you, in an act of reparation for the sins by which he is offended and of supplication for the conversion of sinners?” (Memoirs of Sister Lúcia, I, 162)…

May the seven years which separate us from the centenary of the apparitions hasten the fulfilment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, to the glory of the Most Holy Trinity.

Source: “What Does The Prayer Really Say” blog.

Bold is mine.

The words of Pope Benedict clearly show that the prophecies of Fatima have yet to be fulfilled. Those who believe the prophesies of Fatima to be past events are mistaken, according to Pope Benedict. The so-called official version of Fatima that was released in 2000 obviously does not contain the full truth of the Fatima message. I do not believe the full Third Secret of Fatima has been revealed, and I think Pope Benedict has hinted at this fact during his visit to Fatima. Many people believe the Third Secret was fulfilled in the assassination attempt on John Paul II; if this was the case, why would the Pope explicitly say that we would be mistaken for thinking that Fatima’s prophetic mission was complete?

 

[At_Trent]

Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant ? It is to our pope

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

btw, he has invited all priests to come to Rome in June. He may be up to something. Or not, we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[At_Trent]

To add my thanks, antunesaa.
In 1983 I saw a video of Fatima with the Final Procession and the tradition of the white handkerchiefs. But the choir singing the Fatima Ave – I don’t know any Portugese but the expression in the hymn was more beautiful than anything I’ve heard before or since, & I still remember it.
The Holy Father said, in his Coronation speech, “Pray for me, that I may not flee for fear of the wolves”. Well, he’s keeping to his word.

Wonder who the wolves are ?

 

[irishcolleen45]

Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant ? It is to our pope

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

btw, he has invited all priests to come to Rome in June. He may be up to something. Or not, we’ll have to wait and see.

Isn’t the Year of the Priest ending in June?

 

[Malkin71]

I am a new believer in Our Lady of Fatima. I remember watching a film about Fatima when I was a child at school; but I forgot about the apparition shortly afterwards and never really thought about it again. Recently, thanks to CAF, I rediscovered Our Lady of Fatima and I have become a believer. I’ve ready many websites, including The Fatima Network of Father Nicholas Gruner. I am aware that Fr. Gruner is not a priest in good standing with the Catholic Church, but I find his interpretation of the Fatima message interesting. He believes the Fatima message remains relevant to our times, but others seem to think that the time of Fatima passed with the end of the Cold War and the fall of Soviet Russia. Father Gruner does not believe the Consecration of Russia has been performed, but the Church maintains that this was done by Pope John Paul II in 1984.

My question: Is Fatima still relevant to our time? Or has the time of Fatima passed?

I have also noticed that traditional Catholics seem to be the main proponents of Our Lady of Fatima; they seem to be the ones who really believe in the importance of this message. Why is this?

Please Note: I am aware that there are many conspiracy theories surrounding Fatima. I have no problems discussing these, but please do not see this as an opportunity to slander Vatican II or the Ordinary Form of the Mass. I mention this because I have come across traditionalists who insist Fatima is opposed to Vatican II, and this leads them to be uncharitable in their words. I am really interested in this topic and I would love to have a friendly, polite discussion about all of the elements of the Fatima apparitions. Thanks.

I am in a middle of a discussion with a member of my Parish who is the Sascterian and in the process of becoming a Deacon. He is in agremment that Fatima with Other Church aproved apperations that they are private. Also he mentioned that it is not spirituall good to center ones life around “Private Relevations”. I belive in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadeloupe, etc… I belive the Blessed Mother has appeared and give messages of warning to the world.
I am amazed that people do not believe. Even my own Pastor said that Fatima was Private! Meanwhile we have a Fatima grotto outside our Church! I do not get it?

 

[Victorious]

I am in a middle of a discussion with a member of my Parish who is the Sascterian and in the process of becoming a Deacon. He is in agremment that Fatima with Other Church aproved apperations that they are private. Also he mentioned that it is not spirituall good to center ones life around “Private Relevations”. I belive in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadeloupe, etc… I belive the Blessed Mother has appeared and give messages of warning to the world.
I am amazed that people do not believe. Even my own Pastor said that Fatima was Private! Meanwhile we have a Fatima grotto outside our Church! I do not get it?

“Private revelation” is a term of art that has nothing to do with how many people know about a particular revelation. Private revelation is distinguished from public revelation, which includes all that which belongs to the deposit of faith. Public revelation culminated in the coming of Jesus Christ; now that the Apostles are all gone, we can expect no new public revelations. The Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say on the subject:

1. “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
2. Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

 

[Simeon_stylite]

Yes Fatima is a private revelation but so were the Rosary, the Scapular and the Divine Mercy, the feast of the Sacred Heart, Corpus Christi etc etc.
To disapprove of authentic private revelations reveals a spirit of pride.
God does use his mother and the saints today, to get us to live more fully the gospel of Jesus. God does guide us and speak to us today, foremost in the sacraments and the scriptures but also through his saints.

 

[pnewton]

Yes Fatima is a private revelation but so were the Rosary, the Scapular and the Divine Mercy, the feast of the Sacred Heart, Corpus Christi etc etc.
To disapprove of authentic private revelations reveals a spirit of pride.
God does use his mother and the saints today, to get us to live more fully the gospel of Jesus. God does guide us and speak to us today, foremost in the sacraments and the scriptures but also through his saints.

I do not think anyone has disapproved of private revelation, specifically that which is by definition approved. One can choose not to embrace this or that revelation though. In fact, considering the amount of approved revelation and approved Catholic spirituality, it is unavoidable that one will not embrace everything, as that would be a work of many lives. It is not necessarily an indication of pride.

 

[Victorious]

I do not think anyone has disapproved of private revelation, specifically that which is by definition approved. One can choose not to embrace this or that revelation though. In fact, considering the amount of approved revelation and approved Catholic spirituality, it is unavoidable that one will not embrace everything, as that would be a work of many lives. It is not necessarily an indication of pride.

There is an attitude, though, that seems to stem from a kind of minimalism, and that leads people always to ask the question: what is the absolute rock-bottom least that I can do and still call myself a faithful Catholic? This attitude, I think, leads people to revel in the notion that they can disbelieve in, say, Fatima or Lourdes or Guadalupe and still make it to heaven. The response to that is: why would you want to, when these were given to us to help us on the road to heaven, and to help us with the difficulties we face at the time they come?

 

[pnewton]

There is an attitude, though, that seems to stem from a kind of minimalism, and that leads people always to ask the question: what is the absolute rock-bottom least that I can do and still call myself a faithful Catholic? This attitude, I think, leads people to revel in the notion that they can disbelieve in, say, Fatima or Lourdes or Guadalupe and still make it to heaven. The response to that is: why would you want to, when these were given to us to help us on the road to heaven, and to help us with the difficulties we face at the time they come?

Yes, we should never approach God with the attitude of doing the least. However, if we find one type of spirituality less fulfilling, there are a multiple others available for us. Also, as we grow, we may find ourselves more edified by different things within Catholicism.

Denying what the Church has approved though should never be an option though.

 

[Victorious]

Denying what the Church has approved though should never be an option though.

It certainly seems like a dumb idea to me!

 

[osenorman]

Ah! Let me correct you there. Fr Gruner has been meticulous in keeping within the letter of the Law. He is fully legally incardinated with a bishop who has given him specific permission to pursue his apostolate. When he came here to Cork, and the crate was opened with the statue of Our Lady, several present (not including the present writer) smelt a distinct odour of roses. They still speak of this little ‘sign of encouragement’. If you ever go to one of his meetings, you will find that he is very mild-mannered. He even says himself, “I am not an imressive speaker. [He’s not that bad, actually!] Our Lady chose me because she wants her message to come through, with no distractions from my eloquence”. But despite this humble demeanour, he is not one to trifle with, as some of the Big Guns in the Vatican have found out to their cost. He has dedicated his life to Our Lady, and consequently has no human respect, no fear. “My strength is as the strength of ten, because my heart is pure.” For example, a very senior Cardinal tried to pressurise Fr Gruner’s bishop to order him to stay in his diocese – in other words, to abandon his Fatima Apostolate – and Fr Gruner wrote to him reminding him that he was breaking Canon Law by attempting to encroach upon the jurisdiction of a fellow bishop. Fr Gruner then lodged a Canonical complaint about the Cardinal, (which must be reviewed by the pope) and the cardinal was consequently dismissed from his post.

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