Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant?

[Windfish]

I can’t recall any accounts where it was said that not everybody saw the miracle. But if there are people who didn’t see it, I’d have to conclude that God didn’t want them to see it for one reason or another. Maybe they didn’t deserve to see it.

From Wikipedia:
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima":

Our Lady of Fatima

]Some people only saw the radiant colors, and others, including some believers, saw nothing at all.

If you can reference any sources to dispute the above, it would be most helpful. It may lead to the conversion of many non-believers.

For more information on Fatima, your first stop should be the memoirs of Sr. Lucia, In Her Own Words. They are in two volumes. The first volume focuses on the contents of the apparitions; the second focuses on Lucia’s family life, and what happened after the apparitions.

Thank you for the reference.

 

[numealinesimpet]

If Our Lady of Fatima is still relevant (and I’m not saying she isn’t), why did Our Lady appear in Kibeho Rwanda in 1981-89? If Our Lady appears more recently, does that mean the messages from prior apparitions have been fulfilled?

No, Our Lady appears when and where she is needed (doubtless in perfect harmony with her Father/Son/Spouse. She has often appeared mor than one place at a time.

At Kibeho, she said her message was not just for Rwandans but for all the world.

I have not noted Medjugorje because the visitations at Medjugorje have not been approved by the Vatican but the visitations at Kibeho have been approved.

One of the innumerable facts refuting Medjugotje is that, at the beginning (as those of my generation will well remember) “she” stated that Med. would be her last appearance. the real Our Lady at Fatima said no such thing.

Whether or not Our Lady of Fatima is still relevant, I find it amazing how merciful and patient God has been despite His children’s negative behavior. How much longer will His mercy be with us?

Sr Lucia writes that when Our Lord has exhausted all other means to gain a change of heart, He “with a certain trepidation” sends His own mother: because if she is spurned and ridiculed, He is, as it were, constrained to defend her honour by chastisements.

 

[numealinesimpet]

Originally Posted by Victorious

I can’t recall any accounts where it was said that not everybody saw the miracle.

But if there are people who didn’t see it, I’d have to conclude that God didn’t want them to see it for one reason or another. Maybe they didn’t deserve to see it.
From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Originally Posted by []Some people only saw the radiant colors, and others, including some believers, saw nothing at all.](“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Fátima”
)

If you can reference any sources to dispute the above, it would be most helpful. It may lead to the conversion of many non-believers. Beware of wikipedia. It is fine for anything uncontroversial. it can also be ruthlessly informative about the “warts” on the Saints, where the more enthusiastic “Lives of the Saints” might gloss over. But it is no friend at all to the Catholic church. Check their article on S. Bernadette & Our Lady of Lourdes & it will gave you a basis for comparison.

At least 70,000 did see the Miracle. But God never compels. if someone of ill will wishes to ignore that and concentrate on one or two who did not (if this is true at all) God will not force the issue. Remember Lazarus. God would not send him back to warn the others: they already had all the evidence they needed.

The Miracle itself was outside any of our normal ways of thinking. It was nothing so obvious that we can fit it in anywhere. It was not a “normal” astronomical event. Yet it was something real. the sun dried up the mud and everybody’s clothes. and it was seen 30 miles away by people not expecting anything. also, some outside Fatima saw it swoop down on the Cova da Iria and thought it was the end of the World (sorry, I haven’t that reference off-hand.)

The very best reference on the web is fatima.org/
This has links to entire books online. Look up “the Devil’s final Battle” online for all about the three stage-managed “interviews” with Cdl Bertone.

Just one of the innumerable points: at one of these “interviews” Cdl bertone claims that Sr Lucy said “there are no more new revelations”. Yet later on, he says that the Consecration of The World had been accepted (instead of the specific Consecration of russia she had asked for).
But how did she know this, unless she had had 'another new revelation?" Critics were not slow to point this out. So what did Cdl Bertone do? Thevery day after she died (and was at last, safely silenced) he released a press statement that she had had another Revelation, previously undisclosed, that the consecrations were accepted. So why on earth had this not been published before? Really, Cdl bertone, we are not all in the kindergarten.

Look up fatima.org/ and make your own judgment.

Note that the Holy Father is visiting Fatima in May. We must pray very hard, not least for his physical safety. Sr Lucy said, long ago now, “The devil is of a mind to engage in a decisive battle. … Now we must take sides.”

 

[numealinesimpet]

Dempsey,

i would not even visit his site. the consecration of russia was done. and sister lucy herself said heaven has accepted it. so whatever father gruner says, don’t even give it the time of day. i would avoid his site at all costs.

Sorry, but that’s just burying your head in the sand. This is a serious battle, and the devil is doing all he can to cloud the issue. Antonio Socci is very charitable towards Cdl Bertone. He believes that Bertone probably believes he is acting in the best interests of the Church in sticking to the untenable “Party Line” that the Third Secret is over and done with. But if that is not true, then “various nations” can still be annihilated.

 

[numealinesimpet]

I don’t think the variances in witness accounts are problematic.

God can make people see different things depending on what they need to see or not see for their benefit.

Even apart from that, even if people saw the same thing, most of these were unsophisticated people not used to relating things systematically. Having read their accounts, it seems to me that what the witnesses did in many cases is, simply miss out part of what they saw. I don’t remember any actual contradictions. (If there is a sudden catastrophe, different witnesses will give different “slants”.) If they had been questioned further, they might have responded. You know how it is when you have to “drag it out” of somebody. But that could have been construed as “leading the witness”.
Some witnesses said only “I saw a great splendour”. Possibly these people simply could not find the words.

It is true that the children themselves experienced the apparitions differently.

Not just that: they were shown a different vision altogether: Our Lady of Mount Carmel, the Holy Family, S. Joseph blessing the world.

 

[Windfish]

Beware of wikipedia. It is fine for anything uncontroversial. it can also be ruthlessly informative about the “warts” on the Saints, where the more enthusiastic “Lives of the Saints” might gloss over. But it is no friend at all to the Catholic church. Check their article on S. Bernadette & Our Lady of Lourdes & it will gave you a basis for comparison.

I know what you mean. Resources on the internet can often be biased and inaccurate, especially when it comes to controversial matters.

At least 70,000 did see the Miracle. But God never compels. if someone of ill will wishes to ignore that and concentrate on one or two who did not (if this is true at all) God will not force the issue. Remember Lazarus. God would not send him back to warn the others: they already had all the evidence they needed.

Agreed. However, such an explanation may not be satisfactory to non-believers.

The Miracle itself was outside any of our normal ways of thinking. It was nothing so obvious that we can fit it in anywhere. It was not a “normal” astronomical event. Yet it was something real. ** the sun dried up the mud and everybody’s clothes.** and it was seen 30 miles away by people not expecting anything. also, some outside Fatima saw it swoop down on the Cova da Iria and thought it was the end of the World (sorry, I haven’t that reference off-hand.)

Interesting. This was not mentioned in the Wikipedia article.

The very best reference on the web is fatima.org/

Thanks. I know what I’ll be today!

 

[numealinesimpet]

nume:Quote:
At least 70,000 did see the Miracle. But God never compels. if someone of ill will wishes to ignore that and concentrate on one or two who did not (if this is true at all) God will not force the issue. Remember Lazarus. God would not send him back to warn the others: they already had all the evidence they needed.

Agreed. However, such an explanation may not be satisfactory to non-believers. I know, it does seem a bit lame, doesn’t it, if you are not already “on side”. The best thing, I think, is to get a photocopy of the “O Secolo” (‘The World’) newspaper, printed the following day. Most Fatima websites would have a copy, I think. this newspaper was openly and avowedly Masonic and anti-Christian. The journalist who cam to scoff simply had to admit what he saw. you will find his words, translated, e.g. on the link I suggested.

In Portugal, the Government confidently declared that the Faith would be completely gone from that country in a single generation.

Bad as it was, men still did not know that the worst government of them all - Atheistic Communism - was about to be established by a revolution in the last country anyone expected - in Russia. There is no doubt at all that the leaders of this Communist Revolution were being led by Satan.

*QUESTION : How do you know that the leaders of the Communist Revolution were being led by Satan?
ANSWER: Here is just one instance. Archbishop Pacelli, who was later the Saintly Pope Pius XII, made a special study of the leaders and went to the towns where they lived. The main leader, Carl Marx, began life as a Catholic, and had a devotion to the Sacred Heart. Later he joined a group that worshipped the devil. The devil put into his mind how he could take over all the countries of the world in a Godless tyranny, under cover of good-sounding lies. Marx wrote,

“Until I go mad
And my heart is utterly changed
See this sword: The Prince of Darkness gave it to me”.
(From a presentation on The Message of Fatima given at the Catechism Camp, Co. Cavan, 2002)

 

[David_John]

May I just add a very short statement to this discussion. Our Lady said that if Russia (Bolsheviks, communism) was not converted, that her errors would spread through out the world. And they truly have spread. Look at abortion, Planned Parenthood, and it’s foundress Margaret Sander. She was elite pro communist who lived in New York City.
Look at the “The Russian Effort To Abolish Marriage” in The Atantic of July 1926. And just look at the rate of abortion world wide, and the destruction of marriage. Where the divorce rate is as high as 60% in some communities, if not even higher. These are only a few points on how her errors have spread throughout the world. And there are many more. Even how the attendance at church is becoming less, and less.

 

[Alfred_Hili]

May I just add a very short statement to this discussion. Our Lady said that if Russia (Bolsheviks, communism) was not converted, that her errors would spread through out the world. And they truly have spread. Look at abortion, Planned Parenthood, and it’s foundress Margaret Sander. She was elite pro communist who lived in New York City.
Look at the “The Russian Effort To Abolish Marriage” in The Atantic of July 1926. And just look at the rate of abortion world wide, and the destruction of marriage. Where the divorce rate is as high as 60% in some communities, if not even higher. These are only a few points on how her errors have spread throughout the world. And there are many more. Even how the attendance at church is becoming less, and less.

Therefore, in your opinion, Russia is the mother of all modern evils, right ?

 

[Alfred_Hili]

The prophecies in the second part of the secret and the scenes in the third part , visions presented in allegorical forms and biblical figures, are a parable of the events through which the world is currently passing; the punishments it is undergoing on account:
“of our laxity and negligence in attending to His requests”
as Lucy humbly stated.
We are facing an impossible situation: monasteries closing; priests dying; parishes reorganized. Without sufficient nourishment and assistance, souls are being starved of their spiritual sustenance and above all:
“The Holy Father insulted and persecuted”
as Jacinta saw Him.
Our Lady of Fatima is relevant more than ever in our present age.

 

[David_John]

Therefore, in your opinion, Russia is the mother of all modern evils, right ?

From what I have seen and studied, I do believe that, very, very strongly. But it is truly not Russia alone. Just look at the history of Carnegie Institution, Cold Spring Harbor, and eugenics of the 1920’s and it’s lines to Russia. Fatima 1917. Read the book “War Against The Weak” eugenics and America’s Campaign To Create A Master Race. Our Lady spoke near the end of 1917, and many, many movements arose during the 1920’s, that are still with us today. And the sadest thing is that Russia, even today has a very, very sad history. How many people has the communist rule killed to this day. That is why we must pray for her and her people.

 

[danaleemarie]

Firstly, I’m tired of ‘labels’ for Catholics. I’ve seen the term ‘traditional’ used and abused. This was readily apparent, recently, when I searched the internet for more info on the Fatima apparitions, etc., after viewing ‘The 13th Day’.

I was appalled at what I found on the internet. Please be careful searching the internet as there are sites out here that claim to be Catholic–“traditional”, at that–but can only be considered anything but “Catholic”. One website, supported by a group of Benedictines in New York refers to the popes since Vatican II as “anti-popes”. In discussing Fatima, in particular Sr. Lucia, it claims that Rome did away with the real Sister Lucia around 1960 or so and posts pictures of a younger Lucia as a Dolores sister and a later Lucia as a Carmelite saying this proves their point that the Sister Lucia that died in 2005 was an imposter. yada yada yada…To me, this is proof positive that the Devil is alive and well, not in Rome, but on the internet and circulating through our Church today trying to sow seeds of doubt, etc.Shame on any “Catholic” that buys into this ****.

I am reading Father Fox’s book “Fatima Revisited” and can only say, in answer to your question “Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant?” why not? The wars continue, our society kills our unborn without a blink, pornography is rampant, etc. Praying to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and Sacred Heart of Jesus is as relevant today as it was then. Just because some of the Secrets, prophesies, seem to have been fulfilled doesn’t mean the horrors won’t continue happening and refulfilling the prophesies.

Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all those to heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy. Amen.

 

[David_John]

Firstly, I’m tired of ‘labels’ for Catholics. I’ve seen the term ‘traditional’ used and abused. This was readily apparent, recently, when I searched the internet for more info on the Fatima apparitions, etc., after viewing ‘The 13th Day’.

I was appalled at what I found on the internet. Please be careful searching the internet as there are sites out here that claim to be Catholic–“traditional”, at that–but can only be considered anything but “Catholic”. One website, supported by a group of Benedictines in New York refers to the popes since Vatican II as “anti-popes”. In discussing Fatima, in particular Sr. Lucia, it claims that Rome did away with the real Sister Lucia around 1960 or so and posts pictures of a younger Lucia as a Dolores sister and a later Lucia as a Carmelite saying this proves their point that the Sister Lucia that died in 2005 was an imposter. yada yada yada…To me, this is proof positive that the Devil is alive and well, not in Rome, but on the internet and circulating through our Church today trying to sow seeds of doubt, etc.Shame on any “Catholic” that buys into this ****.

I am reading Father Fox’s book “Fatima Revisited” and can only say, in answer to your question “Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant?” why not? The wars continue, our society kills our unborn without a blink, pornography is rampant, etc. Praying to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and Sacred Heart of Jesus is as relevant today as it was then. Just because some of the Secrets, prophesies, seem to have been fulfilled doesn’t mean the horrors won’t continue happening and refulfilling the prophesies.

Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all those to heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy. Amen.

Oh I truly agree with you.

 

[cctabb]

Firstly, I’m tired of ‘labels’ for Catholics. I’ve seen the term ‘traditional’ used and abused. This was readily apparent, recently, when I searched the internet for more info on the Fatima apparitions, etc., after viewing ‘The 13th Day’.

I was appalled at what I found on the internet. Please be careful searching the internet as there are sites out here that claim to be Catholic–“traditional”, at that–but can only be considered anything but “Catholic”. One website, supported by a group of Benedictines in New York refers to the popes since Vatican II as “anti-popes”. In discussing Fatima, in particular Sr. Lucia, it claims that Rome did away with the real Sister Lucia around 1960 or so and posts pictures of a younger Lucia as a Dolores sister and a later Lucia as a Carmelite saying this proves their point that the Sister Lucia that died in 2005 was an imposter. yada yada yada…To me, this is proof positive that the Devil is alive and well, not in Rome, but on the internet and circulating through our Church today trying to sow seeds of doubt, etc.Shame on any “Catholic” that buys into this ****.

I am reading Father Fox’s book “Fatima Revisited” and can only say, in answer to your question “Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant?” why not? The wars continue, our society kills our unborn without a blink, pornography is rampant, etc. Praying to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and Sacred Heart of Jesus is as relevant today as it was then. Just because some of the Secrets, prophesies, seem to have been fulfilled doesn’t mean the horrors won’t continue happening and refulfilling the prophesies.

Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all those to heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy. Amen.

Amen

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Firstly, I’m tired of ‘labels’ for Catholics. I’ve seen the term ‘traditional’ used and abused. This was readily apparent, recently, when I searched the internet for more info on the Fatima apparitions, etc., after viewing ‘The 13th Day’.

I was appalled at what I found on the internet. Please be careful searching the internet as there are sites out here that claim to be Catholic–“traditional”, at that–but can only be considered anything but “Catholic”. One website, supported by a group of Benedictines in New York refers to the popes since Vatican II as “anti-popes”. In discussing Fatima, in particular Sr. Lucia, it claims that Rome did away with the real Sister Lucia around 1960 or so and posts pictures of a younger Lucia as a Dolores sister and a later Lucia as a Carmelite saying this proves their point that the Sister Lucia that died in 2005 was an imposter. yada yada yada…To me, this is proof positive that the Devil is alive and well, not in Rome, but on the internet and circulating through our Church today trying to sow seeds of doubt, etc.Shame on any “Catholic” that buys into this ****.

I am reading Father Fox’s book “Fatima Revisited” and can only say, in answer to your question “Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant?” why not? The wars continue, our society kills our unborn without a blink, pornography is rampant, etc. Praying to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and Sacred Heart of Jesus is as relevant today as it was then. Just because some of the Secrets, prophesies, seem to have been fulfilled doesn’t mean the horrors won’t continue happening and refulfilling the prophesies.

Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all those to heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy. Amen.

There are no “anti-Popes”. Sedevacanists are the ones who believe that. I agree with some of the things you said, although I can tell you there were two Sister Lucias. Pictures of her before and after Vatican II are real, not made up, and show they look almost nothing alike. There is evidence of that all around. Plus, Lucia stated in the 1980s that the Consecration of Russia was done even though John Paul II didn’t do it right.

Believing that there were two Lucia’s doesn’t keep one from being Catholic. It just doesn’t.

 

[hawkeye]

I agree with some of the things you said, although I can tell you there were two Sister Lucias. Pictures of her before and after Vatican II are real, not made up, and show they look almost nothing alike. There is evidence of that all around. Plus, Lucia stated in the 1980s that the Consecration of Russia was done even though John Paul II didn’t do it right.

Believing that there were two Lucia’s doesn’t keep one from being Catholic. It just doesn’t.

I remember debating with an MSN group awhile back, some swore that Pope Paul vi had a puppet pope, they posted up many pics with different angles. (Bayside spin-off )

When I finally pointed a missing mole on the face of one, and a mole on the other-one, they still didn’t change their mind about an anti-puppet pope.

One girl from the USA never saw it, until it was pointed out, ( she was amazed at how she missed it ) so we have to be sure, and yes I’ve saw the alleged pictures of the impostor Sister Lucia.

Anyway, " is Fatima still relevant " yes, the call to reform our live is always relevant.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

To ask “Is Our Lady of Fatima still relevant?” is to ask, Is the Motherhood of Mary still relevant? Is it still relevant to pray the Rosary: to centre our life upon the Mysteries of Christ?

 

[David_John]

Yes it truly is as true today as yesterday

 

[numealinesimpet]

Therefore, in your opinion, Russia is the mother of all modern evils, right ?

My own answer to this is: it is not a question of my opinion. I accept that Our Lady really did appear at Fatima, and that her words and actions have been truthfully passed on to us. I would not personally have said this about russia, but u take Our lady’s word for it. that makes me look more closely behind the scenes, but it has no especial effect except to encourage me to pray the Rosary for her conversion.

 

[numealinesimpet]

Firstly, I’m tired of ‘labels’ for Catholics. I’ve seen the term ‘traditional’ used and abused. This was readily apparent, recently, when I searched the internet for more info on the Fatima apparitions, etc., after viewing ‘The 13th Day’.

I was appalled at what I found on the internet. Please be careful searching the internet as there are sites out here that claim to be Catholic–“traditional”, at that–but can only be considered anything but “Catholic”. One website, supported by a group of Benedictines in New York refers to the popes since Vatican II as “anti-popes”. …

[Recently a poster on CAF complained about our using unusual terms without explanation, so… a Sedevac (Sedevacantist) believes that the recent popes are not true popes but usurpers.] ‘Traditional’ is indeed a much-abused word, and certainly is used for people who would strongly disagree with each other.

As for the Sedevacs, one thing I have noticed about their websites, DVDs etc is that they are very seldom upfront about what they believe. Beware especially about a so-called Bebedictine community that has, so far as I know, no Benedictine credentials whatsoever; and Bro.Dimond, who produces reams of erroneous stuff. I respect the SSPX not least because they have always put it on the line exactly what they do & do not stand for. In fact I recommend their discussion on sedevacantism among other topics. And I recommend fatima.org/ (Fr Gruner’s Fatima Website) for the same reason.