Is Our Lady of Fatima Still Relevant?

[David_John]

I truly trust in Our Lady’s words, with all my heart and soul. But we must look at world history after the Bolshevik Revolution (1917-1918), and how Russia became the first truly Godless nation in modern times. And how this Godlessness has now spread worldwide. Look at Russia abortion rate, her divorce rate, and the break up of families. Which has spread worldwide. But the Bolsheviks also needed help in their revolution (money, weapons), and where did that come from? Look very closely at history. And yes the answer, is praying our Rosary. Also look at eugenics, which was a popular form of racism amongest the intellectual elite of the 1920’ ans 30’s, who were supporters of the revolution. Margaret Sanger, foundress of the Planned Parenthood - the extermination of human weeds, the cessation of charity, those morons, misfits, and the sterilization of genetically inferior races. “The Negro Project.” And there are notes suggesting that she was a suppoter of the Bolsheviks. They spoke of Modernism. But who has the time to read everything. We must just pray and trust in God, and our Holy Mother.

 

[antunesaa]

Beware of wikipedia. It is fine for anything uncontroversial. it can also be ruthlessly informative about the “warts” on the Saints, where the more enthusiastic “Lives of the Saints” might gloss over. But it is no friend at all to the Catholic church. Check their article on S. Bernadette & Our Lady of Lourdes & it will gave you a basis for comparison.

At least 70,000 did see the Miracle. But God never compels. if someone of ill will wishes to ignore that and concentrate on one or two who did not (if this is true at all) God will not force the issue. Remember Lazarus. God would not send him back to warn the others: they already had all the evidence they needed.

The Miracle itself was outside any of our normal ways of thinking. It was nothing so obvious that we can fit it in anywhere. It was not a “normal” astronomical event. Yet it was something real. the sun dried up the mud and everybody’s clothes. and it was seen 30 miles away by people not expecting anything. also, some outside Fatima saw it swoop down on the Cova da Iria and thought it was the end of the World (sorry, I haven’t that reference off-hand.)

The very best reference on the web is fatima.org/
This has links to entire books online. Look up “the Devil’s final Battle” online for all about the three stage-managed “interviews” with Cdl Bertone.

Just one of the innumerable points: at one of these “interviews” Cdl bertone claims that Sr Lucy said “there are no more new revelations”. Yet later on, he says that the Consecration of The World had been accepted (instead of the specific Consecration of russia she had asked for).
But how did she know this, unless she had had 'another new revelation?" Critics were not slow to point this out. So what did Cdl Bertone do? Thevery day after she died (and was at last, safely silenced) he released a press statement that she had had another Revelation, previously undisclosed, that the consecrations were accepted. So why on earth had this not been published before? Really, Cdl bertone, we are not all in the kindergarten.

Look up fatima.org/ and make your own judgment.

Note that the Holy Father is visiting Fatima in May. We must pray very hard, not least for his physical safety. Sr Lucy said, long ago now, “The devil is of a mind to engage in a decisive battle. … Now we must take sides.”

I expect to attend the holy mass at Terreiro do Paço, in Lisbon, by our beloved Pope Benedict XVI, and then move to Fátima for the ceremonies of the 13th of May 2010.

 

[antunesaa]

There are no “anti-Popes”. Sedevacanists are the ones who believe that. I agree with some of the things you said, although I can tell you there were two Sister Lucias. Pictures of her before and after Vatican II are real, not made up, and show they look almost nothing alike. There is evidence of that all around. Plus, Lucia stated in the 1980s that the Consecration of Russia was done even though John Paul II didn’t do it right.

Believing that there were two Lucia’s doesn’t keep one from being Catholic. It just doesn’t.

Here in Portugal nobody believes (or perhaps even heard) that there was a fake Sister Lúcia. Come on, she still has relatives in Fátima and other places around the country and none of them ever spoke out about such things. This is just conspiracy theory #73673637.

 

[antunesaa]

Hello, everyone.

I want to know everything I possibly can about Our Lady of Fatima before I share it with my non-believing friends. I think faith should involve more than just signs, but non-believers, especially, may need an extra-Biblical impetus.

I think the reports from anti-clerical and anti-religious sources which verified the miracle are examples of clinching historical evidence, but there are a few oddities:

-Why didn’t everyone in the crowd see the miracle? We can speculate that the miracle was selective, but is there any evidence of that?

-The unusual solar activity was not observed by others around the world.

-The testimonies by witnesses, I have read, varied quite substantially. Evidence of mass delusion/hysteria?

-How can we explain that the solar system was not affected by the sun’s movements?

-I have read that even between the three children, their accounts of I their encounters with the apparition varied substantially. Is this true?

Can anyone familiar with the evidence and facts answer these oddities? I just want to be as informed as possible before I decide to share this story.

I repeat here a post I made somewhere else. —

I can give you a curious account of this “miracle of the sun” phenomenon. When my dad met my mum, during the sixties, in a city in southern Portugal called Beja, they would often stroll by a park. My mum got intrigued by an old man who prayed the rosary every day while staying by his window. My dad happened to know the old man and some day he introduced them. Well, his account of the miracle was moving. He had gone to Fátima for the single purpose of laughing at the peasants there. He was a young adult in 1917, and he had an attitude that, at the time, was thought to be “progressive” in Portugal, especially in the South; contempt for Catholicism was mandatory. The problem was - he got overwhelmed by the “miracle” and, as he told my mother, from that day on not a single day passed without him praying the rosary, in obedience to what the Virgin Mary told the little shepherds. Now, it must have been a very strong experience for such a radical change of mindset. People are very fond of their a priori beliefs. But that young man changed. Another curious thing was that he died shortly after, of natural causes, while my parents were still in Beja. It was a 13th of May.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Russia became the first truly Godless nation in modern times.

 

[danaleemarie]

[Recently a poster on CAF complained about our using unusual terms without explanation, so… a Sedevac (Sedevacantist) believes that the recent popes are not true popes but usurpers.] ‘Traditional’ is indeed a much-abused word, and certainly is used for people who would strongly disagree with each other.

As for the Sedevacs, one thing I have noticed about their websites, DVDs etc is that they are very seldom upfront about what they believe. Beware especially about a so-called Bebedictine community that has, so far as I know, no Benedictine credentials whatsoever; and Bro.Dimond, who produces reams of erroneous stuff. I respect the SSPX not least because they have always put it on the line exactly what they do & do not stand for. In fact I recommend their discussion on sedevacantism among other topics. And I recommend fatima.org/ (Fr Gruner’s Fatima Website) for the same reason.

Thank you; I believe what I came across online was the sedevacantists and that so-called Benedictine community. They had two sites, one on the so-called Lucia imposter and another about Cardinal Siri, who they claim was the rightly elected pope in 1958 and the subsequent election. It was all very disturbing as I had no idea our Church was so divided beyond a so-called Traditional movement that preferred the Tridentine mass and the rest of us. But, why should I be surprised these groups exist? The devil (d+evil) is everywhere.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Here in Portugal nobody believes (or perhaps even heard) that there was a fake Sister Lúcia. Come on, she still has relatives in Fátima and other places around the country and none of them ever spoke out about such things. This is just conspiracy theory #73673637.

That would be because her family didn’t see her or speak to her as much in her later years. Even when they did see her or speak to her, it had been long enough for them to believe that her voice and looks naturally changed. Plus when they visited her she was constantly behind a certain so they couldn’t really see her.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Thank you; I believe what I came across online was the sedevacantists and that so-called Benedictine community. They had two sites, one on the so-called Lucia imposter and another about Cardinal Siri, who they claim was the rightly elected pope in 1958 and the subsequent election. It was all very disturbing as I had no idea our Church was so divided beyond a so-called Traditional movement that preferred the Tridentine mass and the rest of us. But, why should I be surprised these groups exist? The devil (d+evil) is everywhere.

The Devil has nothing to do with those who prefer the TLM. Remember, Traditional Catholics and sedevacanists are two different things, although the Devil isn’t associated with sedevacanists either.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

The Church is under attack. The message of Our Lady of Fatima is relevant.

 

[numealinesimpet]

I expect to attend the holy mass at Terreiro do Paço, in Lisbon, by our beloved Pope Benedict XVI, and then move to Fátima for the ceremonies of the 13th of May 2010.

I am green with envy! Do say one for all us CAF-threaders! And I’ll remember you in this morning’s Mass. And please find time to give us a full account when you get back home.

 

[numealinesimpet]

That would be because her family didn’t see her or speak to her as much in her later years. Even when they did see her or speak to her, it had been long enough for them to believe that her voice and looks naturally changed. Plus when they visited her she was constantly behind a certain so they couldn’t really see her.

I warned in an earlier posting that this “two sister Lucias” fantasy was just another red herring. It adds nothing to the discussion. We should note carefully the fact that the attitude of the Vatican to Fr Fuentes, (Postulator for the Cause of beatification of Jacinta and Francisco), changed dramatically immediately after Pope Pius XII died and Pope John XXIII was elected; that the third Secret was not published in 1960 as everybody had been expecting for years, and the only comment was an anonymous Vatican press Release; and that the remarks attributed to Sr Lucia did change in 1989, after yet another anonymous “instruction” from the Vatican … and so did the medium of communication: no more first-hand comments, no handwritten letters, but typed or Word-Processed handouts (when she had not learned to type) with her signature at the bottom; why? It is clear from the published facts that there are those in the Vatican using their power (legitimately or otherwise) to bury the part of the Fatima message that involves the Collegial Consecration of Russia. Therefore we need to pray all the harder, and not take everything we hear at face value. But we need to keep our heads. The “stand-in” story has been used before as an “explanation” for puzzling reversals in a prominent person’s deeds or statements, but (without conclusive evidence) it defies common sense. This thread has already mentioned many reasons why this idea is untenable – to put it mildly.

That would be because her family didn’t see her or speak to her as much in her later years. Even when they did see her or speak to her, it had been long enough for them to believe that her voice and looks naturally changed. Plus when they visited her she was constantly behind a certain so they couldn’t really see her.

Please! Have you really stopped to think about that? Have you any cousins whom you knew all your life? And would you be fooled by a stand-in, even when you could talk with her, yet somebody on the other side of the world, by looking at a few black-and-white photos, “knows” the dark truth??

 

[numealinesimpet]

The Devil has nothing to do with those who prefer the TLM. Remember, Traditional Catholics and sedevacanists are two different things, although the Devil isn’t associated with sedevacanists either.

The devil is "associated’ with each one of us until the last moment of our lives (although the regular recitation of the Rosary drives him away). As St Ignatius teaches in his Spiritual Exercises, the devil is versatile. He has his traps for the “Baddies” and traps for the “Goodies”. There are those whom he knows he won’t tempt to murder, adultery, swindling … so he tempts them to hidden pride, or false humility (*three times *he fooled the Curé of Ars into leaving his parish, because he was “unworthy” … once to join a Carmelite Monastery … a parishoner spotted him trying to sneak off in the middle of the night, rang the Village Bell, and the good folk rushed out and frogmarched him back …). Or he will try to side-track them. That is where he has got the sedevacs. They spend endless hours poring over ancient and modern documents, when they would be better employed praying a few more decades. More serioulsy, many of them do not attend any Sacraments at all. they cannot recognise that they have been eased out of the arms of Mother Church, and are rejecting Our Lord’s offer of the means of Salvation, all over some stupid concoction about who is and who is not the pope. Yet they are th first to denounce “Mortal sin” in others. A classic device of the devil.

I’ll ‘declare my own position’ … I have attended SSPX Mass & Sacraments for many years, and I believe it has been a huge benefit to my growing (and grown) family. I also contribute to my ‘regular’ parish in other ways. On the basis of my personal experience, my opinion is that the Besetting Sin (ie commonest temptation, easiest for them to fall into, tho’ not all do) of your easy-going Catholic, who just goes to the nearest Mass, is Sloth and Lukewarmness. And the Besetting Sin of laypeople who attend the SSPX is Pride, or else scrupulosity.

Note that the Message of Fatima cuts across all this. Our Lady said to St Dominic, “One day through the Rosary and Scapular I will save the world”.

 

[danaleemarie]

The Devil has nothing to do with those who prefer the TLM. Remember, Traditional Catholics and sedevacanists are two different things, although the Devil isn’t associated with sedevacanists either.

That’s what I said, that PREVIOUSLY, I had no idea there was such a thing as sedavacanists or those erroneous beliefs. I guess this is where we agree to disagree:, I differ with you, obviously, about where I see the Devil, and I happen to see him working in groups that come up with conspiracy theories and divide the Church, a perfect example being this conversation. I’m not going to write on this anymore–the topic is “Our Lady” not fringe groups claiming to be Catholic. And, now, I’m off to Mass where I am blessed to be the Lector giving the first reading from Acts of the Apostles. I hope everyone has a blessed day and remembers that May is Mary’s month. Treasure it, and her.

 

[danaleemarie]

The Church is under attack. The message of Our Lady of Fatima is relevant.

Amen!

p.s. I lived in Sydney back in the 70’s–I loved it there.

 

[irishcolleen45]

I’ll ‘declare my own position’ … I have attended SSPX Mass & Sacraments for many years, and I believe it has been a huge benefit to my growing (and grown) family. I also contribute to my ‘regular’ parish in other ways. On the basis of my personal experience, my opinion is that the Besetting Sin (ie commonest temptation, easiest for them to fall into, tho’ not all do) of your easy-going Catholic, who just goes to the nearest Mass, is Sloth and Lukewarmness. And the Besetting Sin of laypeople who attend the SSPX is Pride, or else scrupulosity.

Note that the Message of Fatima cuts across all this. Our Lady said to St Dominic, “One day through the Rosary and Scapular I will save the world”.

I am confused with your statement. If you are attending the SSPX Mass and Sacraments, you are not in union with Rome are you? Why aren’t you attending the “Extraordinary” or Tredintine rite? My son’s parish in Irving Texas (near Dallas) is a Tredintine community in union with Rome. The priests are from the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter. I understand that there are some parishes in Ireland that offers the Tredintine Mass. I would imagine that those parishes which have the Tredintine Mass would be more traditional than the rest of the parishes. I’ll be in Ireland in three weeks. Will have to check out those parishes.

 

[Victorious]

If you are attending the SSPX Mass and Sacraments, you are not in union with Rome are you?

The Society is not schismatic; but on the other hand, their situation in the Church is irregular. Their priests have valid orders, but they are under suspension, and lack faculties from the local bishops to administer the Sacraments. It is my understanding that one can legitimately assist at an SSPX Mass and fulfill the Sunday obligation, and even receive Communion, but one cannot, in the ordinary course, receive the other Sacraments from an SSPX priest, because of his lack of faculties. For all these reasons, I personally have avoided going to the SSPX chapel, even though I would like to be able to attend the Extraordinary Form Mass every week. I would rather not get mixed up with the mess. I think it’s risky to get involved with the Society, because of its irregularity, and it’s better to pray that it becomes regular in short order.

The devil couldn’t stop Our Lady of Fatima, or undo her work, so he tries to twist her appearances and messages to whip up paranoia in the Church, and to pry people out of the Church by turning them against their shepherds.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

“And God made two great lights: a greater light (Jesus) to rule the day; and a lesser light (Mary) to rule the night: and the stars (saints of the Church) and he set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth. And to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.” (Gen 1:16-18)

 

[MarkThompson]

“And God made two great lights: a greater light (Jesus) to rule the day; and a lesser light (Mary) to rule the night: and the stars (saints of the Church) and he set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth. And to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.” (Gen 1:16-18)

Absolutely not! I realize you’re trying for poetry here, but, first, Jesus was begotten, not made, and existed before all the ages. If you actually asserted that he was made by the Father, that would be heretical, so it’s pretty important not to play around loosely with the language. Second, Mary is not somehow a lesser version of Jesus.

 

[Windfish]

Earlier, I posted a snippet from the Wiki article on Our Lady of Fatima. It said that not all those present saw the miracle of the sun. Can anyone who is well-acquainted with the facts verify this? This would be the last niggling issue and would put this beyond all doubt for some of the people I know.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Absolutely not! I realize you’re trying for poetry here, but, first, Jesus was begotten, not made, and existed before all the ages. If you actually asserted that he was made by the Father, that would be heretical, so it’s pretty important not to play around loosely with the language. Second, Mary is not somehow a lesser version of Jesus.

Our Lord Jesus Christ is God and man. He is God begotten of the substance of the Father before all ages and man born in time of the substance of His Mother.
Just as the moon is luminated by the sun, the glory of Mary is the reflection of Christ.

Among the Fathers, St Ignatius of Antioch in particular emphasises that Christ “is truly of the race of David according to the flesh…that he was truly born of a virgin” (Smym. I, I; cf. Eph. 18:2)