Is Padre Pio somewhat okay with Protestants?

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Patrick2000

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There is something that confuses me is whether Padre Pio says or suggest the idea that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. I remember that he considers Protestantism a heresy. What is strange that this blog that involves Padre Pio gives you the idea that Protestants can go to heaven. Here’s the link

divinefiat.blogspot.com

Padre Pio was not a rigid Traditionalist

Padre Pio Catholic St. Alphonsus
divinefiat.blogspot.com divinefiat.blogspot.com

What are your guys’ thoughts on this?
 
“No salvation outside the Catholic Church” doesn’t mean that non-Catholics can never go to Heaven. The Catechism itself teaches that, not just Padre Pio. Such people get to Heaven through their connections with or commonality with the Church. Having Padre Pio intercede for your soul is a big powerful connection with the Church.

The website you have posted seems to take a rigid traditionalist approach to “Extra ecclesiam nulla salus” like only Catholics can be saved. This is called Feeneyism and is contrary to the Catechism.

The fact that some non-Catholics make it to Heaven (partly through the prayers of Catholics in Padre Pio’s cases) doesn’t mean Protestantism is suddenly okay, as they get to heaven despite being non-Catholic, not because of being non-Catholic. During most of Padre Pio’s lifetime , Protestantism was generally considered wrong and heretical. Another example of this is shown in the original Divine Mercy novena from the 1920s or 1930s, which contains prayers for mercy on “heretics”. We use softer words post-Vatican II.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
The website you have posted seems to take a rigid traditionalist approach to “Extra ecclesiam nulla salus” like only Catholics can be saved. This is called Feeneyism and is contrary to the Catechism.
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How so? Just skimming over the website, it looks to be nothing more than a website promoting veneration of Padre Pio. Nothing “Feeneyite” about it.
 
I read it and it had a lot of suggestion that maybe people secretly converted to Catholicism before dying. Also, the basic idea of even having the website seems to be to defend the idea that non-Catholics can go to Heaven. Your average Catholic reading the current Catechism would say, well, sure they can, why wouldn’t they have a chance to get to Heaven? It’s only those who doubt it who would be that concerned with Padre Pio’s views.
 
“Protestantism was generally considered wrong and heretical. Another example of this is shown in the original Divine Mercy novena from the 1920s or 1930s, which contains prayers for mercy on “heretics”. We use softer words post-Vatican II.”

Still considered heretical.
Softer words do not equate to a change in doctrine.

Protestants can go to heaven.
But it is also true that there is no salvation outside the Church.
 
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I’m not a fan of Protestantism myself, but using the H-word on here will get you flagged, draw annoyed responses from modernists who promote ecumenism, and draw upset responses from non-Catholics.

I personally think the DM novena should be left just as it is.
 
Protestantism is a heresy, but mistakenly believing a heresy is not the sin of heresy, which requires a certain obstinacy.

St. Augustine:
But though the doctrine which men hold be false and perverse, if they do not maintain it with passionate obstinacy, especially when they have not devised it by the rashness of their own presumption, but have accepted it from parents who had been misguided and had fallen into error, and if they are with anxiety seeking the truth, and are prepared to be set right when they have found it, such men are not to be counted heretics.
CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 43 (St. Augustine)
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For the purposes of the dogma at issue, by virtue of their baptism and faith, such a Protestant would not be “outside” the Church.

Among Protestants there are no doubt both those mistaken in good faith and those obstinate in their error.

Historically, the word “heretic” has been used in both the narrow sense–ie someone guilty of heresy–and the broader sense (anyone who holds to a heresy or belongs to a heretical community). Generally the more narrow sense prevails today.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
I read it and it had a lot of suggestion that maybe people secretly converted to Catholicism before dying. Also, the basic idea of even having the website seems to be to defend the idea that non-Catholics can go to Heaven. Your average Catholic reading the current Catechism would say, well, sure they can, why wouldn’t they have a chance to get to Heaven? It’s only those who doubt it who would be that concerned with Padre Pio’s views.
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I believe the traditional doctrine of extra ecclesiam nulla salus, however, along with Vatican II and the new catechism, I am willing to concede that those individuals visibly outside the Church in this life may have some kind of mystical union with the Church in spite of outward appearances, or even their own conscious awareness.

It is still incumbent upon the Church to draw as many souls as possible inside her, that they might be in visible union with the Roman Pontiff and receive the true sacraments of the Church. In other words, one may be saved in spite of being outside the visible unity of the Church, but not because of it.
 
You asked a question about the website. I answered it.
Not sure why you’re making a speech to me about how it’s still important to join the Catholic Church.
I never said it wasn’t. Simply that the Catechism teaches that non-Catholics have the possibility of salvation. It’s not a new idea.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Not sure why you’re making a speech to me about how it’s still important to join the Catholic Church.
I never said it wasn’t. Simply that the Catechism teaches that non-Catholics have the possibility of salvation. It’s not a new idea.
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I didn’t intend to “make a speech”, just to clarify the traditional teaching of the Church and how to reconcile it with contemporary teaching. It is not a “new idea”, but the sensibilities of the modern world have made it necessary for the Church to clarify how salvation may be gained by people outside the visible structure of the Church.

All of the Catholic missionaries in times past — the North American Martyrs come immediately to mind — have been animated by the idea that there are unsaved souls out there in the world, who will be damned if they have not been brought to Christ through His Church. Even fundamentalist evangelical missionaries have the germ of this idea — they see unsaved people as having a Christ-less eternity without their efforts to go out into the world and preach the saving gospel of Jesus Christ to everyone they possibly can. The brave (some would also say foolhardy) evangelist who went to North Sentinel Island, where almost certain death awaited him, would not have said “if I don’t witness to them, it’s all good, they’ll be saved if they seek God as they understand him with good will”.
 
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The Church has specifically spoken about the use of the word “heresy”; it holds that the doctrinal differences between the Catholic church and the Protestant groups are heretical, but no longer refers to the people who ascribe to the various doctrinal heresies, as they are far, far removed from the original individuals who broke from Church teachings.

The short answer is that if anyone outside the Church (and that includes a whole lot more than just Protestants) gets to Heaven, they do so through Christ.

As to ecumenism, the Church encourages us to work together with others, whatever their faith, to help alleviate poverty, disease, hunger, shelter… and one does not have to be a modernist to do so (that issue being priomarily about Scriptural interpretation); and the serious work on ecumenical dialogue goes on far, far above anyone here as far as paygrade.

It also is worth mentioning that the Church generally acknowledges the validity of Protestant baptisms and marriages as sacramental.

Missionary work is still alive, but certainly could use more recruits; and watching Bishop Barron, he certainly sees the Church as evangelizing and will work to teach anyone and everyone interested in how to be effective doing so.
 
I have no problem with reaching out to Protestants, I was happily married to one for 23 years and got along with his family who were mostly non-Catholic.

I think it is hair-splitting to make such a distinction over the use of the word “heretic” in the modern era, but as always I defer to the Magisterium on this point. The Protestant churches took 1500 years to even show up and in God’s time they will go away again, as they are the proverbial houses built on sand, so no worries from me. Call them “applesauce” for all I care.
 
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We must distinguish between material heresy, which is beliefs contrary to sound doctrine by those who don’t know better, and formal heresy, which is the willful rejection of Truth.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
“No salvation outside the Catholic Church” doesn’t mean that non-Catholics can never go to Heaven. The Catechism itself teaches that, not just Padre Pio. Such people get to Heaven through their connections with or commonality with the Church. Having Padre Pio intercede for your soul is a big powerful connection with the Church.

The website you have posted seems to take a rigid traditionalist approach to “Extra ecclesiam nulla salus” like only Catholics can be saved. This is called Feeneyism and is contrary to the Catechism.

The fact that some non-Catholics make it to Heaven (partly through the prayers of Catholics in Padre Pio’s cases) doesn’t mean Protestantism is suddenly okay, as they get to heaven despite being non-Catholic, not because of being non-Catholic. During most of Padre Pio’s lifetime , Protestantism was generally considered wrong and heretical. Another example of this is shown in the original Divine Mercy novena from the 1920s or 1930s, which contains prayers for mercy on “heretics”. We use softer words post-Vatican II.
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If a Protestant goes to heaven, it’s because they died in a state of grace, just like anyone else, iow, they died without mortal sin on their soul. One could realistically ask, given what we know, how realistic is it that a non Catholic , lives an entire life without committing one mortal sin ?

AND​

Re: mortal sin, and its forgiveness, Do Non Catholics have it easier than Catholics in this case, they just pray and everything is forgiven for THEM? Why do we Catholics have to go to confession to have mortal sins forgiven other wise they are NOT because contrition may not be perfect? Discussed here . Praying While in Mortal Sin | Catholic Answers
 
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I don’t generally go around using the word “heretic” to Protestants, primarily because I don’t engage in religious discussions of that nature with them, at least not outside of this forum.

I am not terribly interested in the difference between material and immaterial heresy as I am not looking to argue that any of them are going to hell, I figure that’s up to God.

However, when saying day 5 of the Divine Mercy Novena, which is supposed to be Christ’s own words to St. Faustina, specifically “heretics and schismatics”, I don’t see why we need to replace them with “those who have separated themselves from Your Son’s Church.” To me that’s exactly the same thing as “heretics and schismatics”. Moreover, if somebody is going to be that upset about being called a “heretic”, maybe it’s a sign that they’re not so comfortable in their beliefs. Whatever.
 
If they don’t know they have committed a mortal sin and they try and follow their own faith and ask for forgiveness directly to God then in a sense it IS ‘easier’ isn’t it? More is asked of us Catholics. It was way easier for me when I was Protestant. But I got called here
 
Hey since topic is about salvation and hersey part i have some questions here about that

Currently i been reading catechism that protestant can be saved here

Outside the Church there is no salvation"

[846] How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

[848] "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

About the part which confuses me where explains whu withoud fault dont know in what way that make sense?

because i am really confused could you tell me if that is telling that protestant whu dont know much about catholic church and whu becomed protestant withoud fault knowing enything can be saved or its diffrend help me here please

and last what if catholic become protestant because because of another influence to be decived then that means they canoot be saved if they dont return back?

i always wondered about this issue i think it good topic also i may got things wrong mixing apples and other fruits help me understand i will gladly listen to your correction please teach me please
 
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