Is passing the Eucharist around bad?

[MarkThompson]

PCG, I agree with what’s been said above. Sounds like you did exactly right, and it sounds like this is just a stalling tactic. I’m sure your two-hour meeting was an absolute blast.

Time to send your letter, I think. If you like, you can edit the section concerning the steps you’ve taken already to discuss this meeting (mention the dates). You can also say something like, “After more than two hours’ discussion, neither Father ____, nor Father ____, the pastor of the Newman Center, conceded any willingness to put an end to these grave practices, allowing only that the issue could be slated for additional discussion at a meeting of the liturgy committee – next September. So, following the path laid out in Redemptionis Sacramentum, I turn now to Your Eminence for a prompt decision to bring an end . . . .” … something like that.

 

[pcg2]

Our obligation is: 1) to not participate in such grave error, and 2) admonish the errant priest gently but with documentation, 3) to inform the bishop if the priest continues, 4) to notify to CDWS if the bishop takes no action to stop it. This is from redemptionis sacramentum, His Emminence Cardinal Arinze’s 2004 admonition to the laity, under mandate by HH John Paul II.

If you can not receive except by participation in that error, go elsewhere or don’t receive. Attending an illicit mass still fulfills the obligation if it is the scheduled mass for your canonical parish.

The errors themselves constitute laity performing roles reserved to those in holy orders; that is a grave error, tho the specific actions themselves are not explicitly grave. (If, for example, the priest and several deacons did so, it would be far less an issue, tho still illicit, because it’s a misapplication of the roles they have.)

HH Benedict XVI has stated that a liturgy celebrated according to the rubrics is our right… as has Cardinal Arinze. But with that right comes a responsibility: to be polite, well informed, and accurate in our complaints, to know the rubrics when we do complain, and to complain to the right people, in the right order, giving the right time for correction.

It also implies strongly a duty upon the clergy to provide such rubrically accurate liturgies, and to accept that, if they did err, they need to correct the error.

You are referring to the practice of passing around the Eucharist, correct? I know that I shouldn’t receive in these instances since I would be directly participating… but how about at the masses where the illicit practice of allowing the EMHC to participate in the Fraction? Can I receive there? I remember Mark saying that this was okay and that I shouldn’t worry about it. I tend to agree, seeing as how I am not directly participating in this and have no control over it…

 

[benedictgal]

You are referring to the practice of passing around the Eucharist, correct? I know that I shouldn’t receive in these instances since I would be directly participating… but how about at the masses where the illicit practice of allowing the EMHC to participate in the Fraction? Can I receive there? I remember Mark saying that this was okay and that I shouldn’t worry about it. I tend to agree, seeing as how I am not directly participating in this and have no control over it…

I will not receive Holy Communion from an EMHC who intincts because it is ilicit. I will not, in good conscience, participate in something that is ilicit. Inasmuch as you have already contacted the priests at the UCC, it is still not a good idea to persist in assisting at a Mass where you know ilicit activities are occurring, unless, this is the only access you have to Mass. Now, the excuse that the priests gave was not acceptable. One does not do liturgy by committee. It’s either wrong or it’s right. You don’t need a committee to tell you that the Church’s mandates need to be obeyed. Furthermore, perpetuating the abuse all through the summer is wrong. You don’t have to wait until the fall semester to correct a serious abuse.

 

[Aramis]

You are referring to the practice of passing around the Eucharist, correct? I know that I shouldn’t receive in these instances since I would be directly participating… but how about at the masses where the illicit practice of allowing the EMHC to participate in the Fraction? Can I receive there? I remember Mark saying that this was okay and that I shouldn’t worry about it. I tend to agree, seeing as how I am not directly participating in this and have no control over it…

I was referring to and/or all of the following errors:

1. EMHC’s participating in the fraction
2. passing the Eucharist or its containers from person to person
3. EMHC’s inticting
4. EMHC’s standing at/around the altar during the consecration

all of these are irreverent and illicit, and involve laity acting as if clerics. It’s that last part that is the major issue.

I’d not walk out, but I would not receive in a mass with any one of these errors. The obligation to reception is annual. The obligation to attend is just a bit more than weekly… therefore, if I encounter such errors, it’s better for me, as I know they are wrong, to not participate, and ask the celebrant privately after the service if he’s aware they are all forbidden. If he is, I don’t go back except in emergencies.

 

[revert_jen]

Now, the excuse that the priests gave was not acceptable. One does not do liturgy by committee. It’s either wrong or it’s right. You don’t need a committee to tell you that the Church’s mandates need to be obeyed.

I agree. My personal response to their position would be “You can delegate your authority, but you can’t abrogate your responsibility.” Which is to say, if you want to delegate some of your authority as the primary liturgist for the parish to a committee, you can. However the responsibility for licit liturgy will always remain solely yours.

–Jen

 

[pcg2]

ugh so I just recieved at a mass where the priest (and other EMHCs) poured consecrated wine into seperate chalices, and one of the EMHCs was helping the priest put consecrated hosts into seperate plates. also, I believe that some of the EMHCs took some of the consecrated wine and hosts into the area bedind the altar so they could distribute them into seperate containers, to be given to other EMHCs so they could distribute to laity. I’m guessing I mortally sinned here, right? sigh…

 

[benedictgal]

ugh so I just recieved at a mass where the priest (and other EMHCs) poured consecrated wine into seperate chalices, and one of the EMHCs was helping the priest put consecrated hosts into seperate plates. also, I believe that some of the EMHCs took some of the consecrated wine and hosts into the area bedind the altar so they could distribute them into seperate containers, to be given to other EMHCs so they could distribute to laity. I’m guessing I mortally sinned here, right? sigh…

Is this at the place where you have been attending? If I were you, I would get the local bus schedule and match it up to a nearby parish and stop attending Mass at your present location for the time being. What you witnessed was gravely ilicit. This should not be happening. I hope that you have already sent your letter to the Archdiocese.

 

[pcg2]

Is this at the place where you have been attending? If I were you, I would get the local bus schedule and match it up to a nearby parish and stop attending Mass at your present location for the time being. What you witnessed was gravely ilicit. This should not be happening. I hope that you have already sent your letter to the Archdiocese.

No, this is my home parish now… I am planning on sending the letter about my college parish tomorrow… this is so incredibly frustruating… I feel like giving up. Like what’s even the point anymore. LIterally, every single place that I go to mass there is something apparantly gravely illicit going on and I can never recieve the Eucharist what the hell is the point of being Catholic if I can’t recieve Jesus.

Now what am I supposed to do, talk to this pastor as well? And then what? Wait until I find out about the next gravely illicit practice going on? And then report that as well? And then just end up being a taddle-tale who is on the lookout for every single minute detail that isn’t going according to plan, playing the role of “big brother” in the congregation, never getting to actually enjoy mass and recieve the Lord and just scrupling over this **** all the time? When does it end? At what point will I be able to just be a normal member of the laity who doesn’t have to supervise the freaking pastor and priests??? I’m 19 for goodness sakes these priests have been ordained for longer than I’ve been alive the pastor has PhD, and I have to tell them how to celebrate a freaking mass??!!

I’m getting pretty disillusioned woth the Catholic church… I now realize that I don’t think I’ve ever been to a properly celebiated mass. So what, I was sinning all those times too?

**How in the world can I be sinning if I am not even the one doing all this **? I just want to recieve our Lord so he can help end my addictions and my scrupulosity, and then He decides to throw this **** in my life to aggravate me even more? I swear it’s like He doesn’t want me to recieve Him… Why is He doing this? Causing so much stress and anxiety and I feel like I am falling short because I don’t know all the rules and I can’t receive Him and I just feel like I’m doing everything wrong.

And now, what, I’m expected to go to confession and say “forgive me, Father, for recieving the Eucharist at a mass in which you yourself were performing gravely illicit acts”? How is that going to go over??

This has been my parish the whole time I’ve actually been a practicing Catholic, my mom and brother come here with me on Sundays now what am I supposed to do? Ditch them?

 

[benedictgal]

No, this is my home parish now… I am planning on sending the letter about my college parish tomorrow… this is so incredibly frustruating… I feel like giving up. Like what’s even the point anymore. LIterally, every single place that I go to mass there is something apparantly gravely illicit going on and I can never recieve the Eucharist what the hell is the point of being Catholic if I can’t recieve Jesus.

Now what am I supposed to do, talk to this pastor as well? And then what? Wait until I find out about the next gravely illicit practice going on? And then report that as well? And then just end up being a taddle-tale who is on the lookout for every single minute detail that isn’t going according to plan, playing the role of “big brother” in the congregation, never getting to actually enjoy mass and recieve the Lord and just scrupling over this **** all the time? When does it end? At what point will I be able to just be a normal member of the laity who doesn’t have to supervise the freaking pastor and priests??? I’m 19 for goodness sakes these priests have been ordained for longer than I’ve been alive the pastor has PhD, and I have to tell them how to celebrate a freaking mass??!!

I’m getting pretty disillusioned woth the Catholic church… I now realize that I don’t think I’ve ever been to a properly celebiated mass. So what, I was sinning all those times too?

**How in the world can I be sinning if I am not even the one doing all this **? I just want to recieve our Lord so he can help end my addictions and my scrupulosity, and then He decides to throw this **** in my life to aggravate me even more? I swear it’s like He doesn’t want me to recieve Him… Why is He doing this? Causing so much stress and anxiety and I feel like I am falling short because I don’t know all the rules and I can’t receive Him and I just feel like I’m doing everything wrong.

And now, what, I’m expected to go to confession and say “forgive me, Father, for recieving the Eucharist at a mass in which you yourself were performing gravely illicit acts”? How is that going to go over??

This has been my parish the whole time I’ve actually been a practicing Catholic, my mom and brother come here with me on Sundays now what am I supposed to do? Ditch them?

First of all, do not despair. That is the worst thing you can do. Take a deep breath. There have been many times when I have been greatly disillusioned with the state of liturgy here in my diocese to the point that I wish we either had an Anglican-Use Mass, an EF or even a Divine Liturgy, I could attend just to retreat from the madness. But, I really believe that my calling is to do what I can in my own way to rectify the problem.

Don’t give up. Don’t be discouraged. Send the letters. Sometimes, it’s the mouse that roars that manages to get the attention of the lion.

 

[pcg2]

Is this how I address the envelope to the Cardinal (please correct anything that is wrong, from the number of lines I am suing to the incorrect placing of things)

His Eminence Roger Mahony
Archbishop
ArchDiocese of Los Angeles
3424 Wilshire Blvd
Los Angeles, Ca 90010-2202

Should there be 5 lines?

 

[benedictgal]

Is this how I address the envelope to the Cardinal (please correct anything that is wrong, from the number of lines I am suing to the incorrect placing of things)

His Eminence Roger Mahony
Archbishop
ArchDiocese of Los Angeles
3424 Wilshire Blvd
Los Angeles, Ca 90010-2202

Should there be 5 lines?

His Eminence Roger Cardinal Mahony
Archbishop, Archdiocese of Los Angeles
3424 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90010-2202

Your Eminence and Dear Cardinal Mahony:

(Begin your letter)

=============

I hope this helps.

 

[PJM]

=pcg2;6716190]I just finished a 2 hour long discussion with both of the priests who serve the Catholic Center – including the pastor/director priest. I told them of the passing around of the Eucharist, and of the illicit practice going on with the fraction. Basically, I didn’t get a straight answer. They went on about how it is a tradition, and that liturgy is about the community, and that change takes time. I expressed that this isn’t something that you need to discuss, that it is grave matter, and that they as our father in Christ have the obligation and authority to end these practices.

At the end of our meeting I asked them very clearly: are these practices on their way to changing, or are we still in this convoluted gray area? They said that the Catholic Center’s next liturgy meeting is this september and that I should bring it up there.

They definitely were open to stopping the practices, but they kept going on about how this takes time and that they want to bring it up to the community first.

1. What should I do? Did I do something wrong or sinful by not giving them a clear “you change it or else” response? They sound like they may be willing to stop it (without me having to resort to the bishop), but, if change did happen, it wouldn’t be until September. There will be no more daily masses until that time, so the passing around the Eucharist wouldn’t happen again until then. However, there are Sunday masses during the summer and the illicit practice during the Fraction would still be occurring then.

Sounds to me as though you did what was right. You brought to there attention an abuse, and it appears they understand that they are being innovative? Unless your in a position of some authority, you acted correctly.

I am concerned about there desire and concern about the “community aspects” of the practice and there desire to see this continue. Protestant worship services are about community!

Mass is First and Foremost a Sacrifice: By God, With God and For God. Trying to make us more like our Protestant Brethern has redued the percent of Catholics attending Sunday and Holyday Mass from about 75% in 1970 to less than 25% in 207 {PEW Report 2008].

CCC 1330 T"he memorial of the Lord’s Passion and Resurrection.
The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church’s offering. The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, “sacrifice of praise,” spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used, since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.

The Holy and Divine Liturgy, because the Church’s whole liturgy finds its center and most intense expression in the celebration of this sacrament; in the same sense we also call its celebration the Sacred Mysteries. We speak of the Most Blessed Sacrament because it is the Sacrament of sacraments. The Eucharistic species reserved in the tabernacle are designated by this same name"

**CCC 1382 **The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood. But the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice is wholly directed toward the intimate union of the faithful with Christ through communion. To receive communion is to receive Christ himself who has offered himself for us.

1. Is the practice of allowing the EMHC to participate in the Fraction grave matter? Is this something that needs to be changed? Which bring me to another question…

ABSOLUTELY YES, SO MUCH SO THAT I WOULD CONTACT THE BISHOP!

1. What do you guys do when you see an illicit practice taking place? Do you always report it, or what? Because it seems like a lot of masses these days are illicit in one way or another… I’m confused.

You seem to have handled it well. I** would follow up it writting** what your concerns are; KEEP A COPY FOR YOURSELF, and send it registerd mail. IF, IF the abuses don’t stop thn take the issue to your Bishop. If you have never done this M me and I 'll give a few tips.

1. Is it our obligation to speak up? Or does it depend on the gravity of the illicit practice that’s going on? Also, if we don’t say something, is it sinful on our part?

YES we must speak up** in charity** and truth; yes it is a sin to deny truth.** Matt.5 Verses 11 to 12** “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Please pray for me as I have finals this week and this is really bugging me out and adding uneccessary stress And I’m sorry for all the questions, it’s just that I want to do the right thing and you guys really help out with that

I’m adding you to my prayer list.

God’s continued Blessings,

Pat

 

[zab]

ugh so I just recieved at a mass where the priest (and other EMHCs) poured consecrated wine into seperate chalices, and one of the EMHCs was helping the priest put consecrated hosts into seperate plates. also, I believe that some of the EMHCs took some of the consecrated wine and hosts into the area bedind the altar so they could distribute them into seperate containers, to be given to other EMHCs so they could distribute to laity. I’m guessing I mortally sinned here, right? sigh…

No, you have not commited a mortal sin because you have received Holy Communion at a Mass where liturgical abuses have occurred.

 

[revert_jen]

ugh so I just recieved at a mass where the priest (and other EMHCs) poured consecrated wine into seperate chalices, and one of the EMHCs was helping the priest put consecrated hosts into seperate plates. also, I believe that some of the EMHCs took some of the consecrated wine and hosts into the area bedind the altar so they could distribute them into seperate containers, to be given to other EMHCs so they could distribute to laity. I’m guessing I mortally sinned here, right? sigh…

Nope. No mortal sin for you today. Did you participate in the abuse? Did you even know it was going to happen? If not then it’s hard to see how it could be your sin at all.

You can only do what you can do. I would talk to the pastor because, unlike the abuses that were occurring at school, it’s entirely likely that these are happening because someone hasn’t been reading the documents closely enough and doesn’t know it’s wrong. You could be doing a great service for your Pastor and your fellow parishioners by helping the Pastor celebrate an entirely licit Mass. If you do talk to the Pastor, try to make sure that you assume the best. A lot of liturgical abuse happens through ignorance and the Pastor may welcome your information, assuming it is not delivered in an accusatory way.

Best of luck either way! I know it is frustrating, and it’s not fair that you have had to go to so much extra work just to get the licit liturgy to which you are entitled. But you really are helping others.

I hope your finals went well!

–Jen

 

[PJM]

=Aramis;6716796]Our obligation is: 1) to not participate in such grave error, and 2) admonish the errant priest gently but with documentation, 3) to inform the bishop if the priest continues, 4) to notify to CDWS if the bishop takes no action to stop it. This is from redemptionis sacramentum, His Emminence Cardinal Arinze’s 2004 admonition to the laity, under mandate by HH John Paul II.

If you can not receive except by participation in that error, go elsewhere or don’t receive. Attending an illicit mass still fulfills the obligation if it is the scheduled mass for your canonical parish.

The errors themselves constitute laity performing roles reserved to those in holy orders; that is a grave error, tho the specific actions themselves are not explicitly grave. (If, for example, the priest and several deacons did so, it would be far less an issue, tho still illicit, because it’s a misapplication of the roles they have.)

HH Benedict XVI has stated that a liturgy celebrated according to the rubrics is our right… as has Cardinal Arinze. But with that right comes a responsibility: to be polite, well informed, and accurate in our complaints, to know the rubrics when we do complain, and to complain to the right people, in the right order, giving the right time for correction.

It also implies strongly a duty upon the clergy to provide such rubrically accurate liturgies, and to accept that, if they did err, they need to correct the error.

EXCELLENT and FACTUAL POST! THANKS

 

[pcg2]

His Eminence Roger Cardinal Mahony
Archbishop, Archdiocese of Los Angeles
3424 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90010-2202

Your Eminence and Dear Cardinal Mahony:

(Begin your letter)

=============

I hope this helps.

Thank you

 

[pcg2]

Nope. No mortal sin for you today. Did you participate in the abuse? Did you even know it was going to happen? If not then it’s hard to see how it could be your sin at all.

You can only do what you can do. I would talk to the pastor because, unlike the abuses that were occurring at school, it’s entirely likely that these are happening because someone hasn’t been reading the documents closely enough and doesn’t know it’s wrong. You could be doing a great service for your Pastor and your fellow parishioners by helping the Pastor celebrate an entirely licit Mass. If you do talk to the Pastor, try to make sure that you assume the best. A lot of liturgical abuse happens through ignorance and the Pastor may welcome your information, assuming it is not delivered in an accusatory way.

Best of luck either way! I know it is frustrating, and it’s not fair that you have had to go to so much extra work just to get the licit liturgy to which you are entitled. But you really are helping others.

I hope your finals went well!

–Jen

Thank you for your response.

I am very confused about this situation. I have recieved conflicting information from you, Aramis, and Mark… Aramis says that to pariticpate (and by participate, I mean simply go there and recieve the Eucharist, NOT assisitng in the illicit practices themselves) and receive in a mass in which there are gravely illicit practices going on *is *a sin (which I don’t understand since I am not the one commiting the illiict acts), while you and Mark say that it is not a sin.

Can someone please, please just give me a striaght-forward, theologically correct, Church approved answer to these questions?

1. Is it a sin for me to recieve the Eucharist at a mass in which gravely illicit acts are going on, in which I have no direct participation in the illicit acts going on?
2. Is it okay for me to continue going to said mass, given that I have the intention or am in the process of trying to get it changed?
3. What about if I go to a mass at a parish where I don’t normally go (I am on vacation, visiting family somewhere else, etc.) and I see gravely illicit acts going on? Is it my repsonsibility to say something, even though that is not my parish and I will not be going to that particular parish very often (if at all ever again)?
4. What am I to do at other parishes where I go to mass. Because of my subjective experience, I now see that I have very likely never been to a mass that was without gravely illicit acts – this has, naturally, shaped my opinion of other masses out there, and makes me think that most other parishes have grave abuses going on as well. Is it my responsibility to “be on the lookout” and “monitor” the situation at every individual mass, making sure that I am checking for illcit acts? If so, how in the world I am supposed to enjoy mass and focus, when I would just be looking at the priest the whole time to make sure he isn’t doing something wrong?

 

[revert_jen]

I am very confused about this situation. I have recieved conflicting information from you, Aramis, and Mark… Aramis says that to pariticpate (and by participate, I mean simply go there and recieve the Eucharist, NOT assisitng in the illicit practices themselves) and receive in a mass in which there are gravely illicit practices going on *is *a sin (which I don’t understand since I am not the one commiting the illiict acts), while you and Mark say that it is not a sin.

Sorry! I don’t know about anyone else, but IANACL*, so I have to figure it out. Aramis cited Redemptionis Sacramentum, but I have read that document before, and I just looked at what I think are the relevant parts again, and I can’t see where it says some of the things Aramis says. In particular, I can’t find anything saying:

“If you can not receive except by participation in that error, go elsewhere or don’t receive.”

I am certainly willing to be corrected if it’s in there, but I can’t find it. Also, I can’t remember if anyone has posted this before, but here is a link to Redemptionis Sacramentum online in case you want to look for yourself:

usccb.org/liturgy/documents/instructioneng.shtml

It’s probably clearer than we are.

Can someone please, please just give me a striaght-forward, theologically correct, Church approved answer to these questions?

Well, I can try.

1. Is it a sin for me to recieve the Eucharist at a mass in which gravely illicit acts are going on, in which I have no direct participation in the illicit acts going on?

I don’t see how it can be, or probably half the Mass-going Catholics in the US are committing this sin. Pending some specific quotation from Redemptionis Sacramentum to the contrary, I would say that if you are not participating in the error, it is OK to participate in the Mass. You can’t sin by accident, and you’re doing all you can to find out what the truth is, so even if I’m wrong, you still won’t be sinning by receiving, if you believe me.

1. Is it okay for me to continue going to said mass, given that I have the intention or am in the process of trying to get it changed?

You can’t just leave a parish every time there is an abuse. So, not only do I not think it is sinful to keep going to that Mass, it’s actually better to keep going to it as long as you are going to try to do something about it.

1. What about if I go to a mass at a parish where I don’t normally go (I am on vacation, visiting family somewhere else, etc.) and I see gravely illicit acts going on? Is it my repsonsibility to say something, even though that is not my parish and I will not be going to that particular parish very often (if at all ever again)?

I think practical considerations limit you from any responsibility in the matter. You can’t know whether the practices are regular or a one-off and you have no way of knowing whether any changes are made, so what can you reasonably do, anyway? If you want you could write a letter to the priest in question and say that he may not know it, but such-and-so practices are wrong, and you just wanted to give him a heads-up. But I don’t see anything that says you have to do it if you don’t feel like it. A licit Mass is a right you are being denied, not a responsibility of yours.

1. What am I to do at other parishes where I go to mass. Because of my subjective experience, I now see that I have very likely never been to a mass that was without gravely illicit acts – this has, naturally, shaped my opinion of other masses out there, and makes me think that most other parishes have grave abuses going on as well. Is it my responsibility to “be on the lookout” and “monitor” the situation at every individual mass, making sure that I am checking for illcit acts? If so, how in the world I am supposed to enjoy mass and focus, when I would just be looking at the priest the whole time to make sure he isn’t doing something wrong?

Again, practical considerations mean you really can’t be responsible for what happens at Mass at a parish where you don’t regularly attend Mass. It is not your responsibility to police every Mass for abuses, especially not to the detriment of your spiritual participation in the prayers and the Sacrifice. Again, you can’t sin by accident. If you have your eyes lowered in prayer and therefore miss the EMHCs purifying the vessels or whatever, it is no sin for you, and you have no responsibility in the matter. OTOH, if you purposefully keep your eyes lowered most of the time, not from prayer but to avoid seeing an abuse, well, that’s between you and God.

Once again, IANACL. But I would not accept anyone putting any more responsibility on you without clear quotations from the relevant official Church documents. And a quotation saying it’s an abuse, is not the same as a quotation saying you shouldn’t receive communion at a Mass where the abuse occurred, nor is it the same as a quotation saying that it is your responsibility to fix it.

–Jen

• I Am Not A Canon Lawyer

 

[pcg2]

Sorry! I don’t know about anyone else, but IANACL*, so I have to figure it out. Aramis cited Redemptionis Sacramentum, but I have read that document before, and I just looked at what I think are the relevant parts again, and I can’t see where it says some of the things Aramis says. In particular, I can’t find anything saying:

“If you can not receive except by participation in that error, go elsewhere or don’t receive.”

I am certainly willing to be corrected if it’s in there, but I can’t find it. Also, I can’t remember if anyone has posted this before, but here is a link to Redemptionis Sacramentum online in case you want to look for yourself:

usccb.org/liturgy/documents/instructioneng.shtml

It’s probably clearer than we are.

Well, I can try.

I don’t see how it can be, or probably half the Mass-going Catholics in the US are committing this sin. Pending some specific quotation from Redemptionis Sacramentum to the contrary, I would say that if you are not participating in the error, it is OK to participate in the Mass. You can’t sin by accident, and you’re doing all you can to find out what the truth is, so even if I’m wrong, you still won’t be sinning by receiving, if you believe me.

You can’t just leave a parish every time there is an abuse. So, not only do I not think it is sinful to keep going to that Mass, it’s actually better to keep going to it as long as you are going to try to do something about it.

I think practical considerations limit you from any responsibility in the matter. You can’t know whether the practices are regular or a one-off and you have no way of knowing whether any changes are made, so what can you reasonably do, anyway? If you want you could write a letter to the priest in question and say that he may not know it, but such-and-so practices are wrong, and you just wanted to give him a heads-up. But I don’t see anything that says you have to do it if you don’t feel like it. A licit Mass is a right you are being denied, not a responsibility of yours.

Again, practical considerations mean you really can’t be responsible for what happens at Mass at a parish where you don’t regularly attend Mass. It is not your responsibility to police every Mass for abuses, especially not to the detriment of your spiritual participation in the prayers and the Sacrifice. Again, you can’t sin by accident. If you have your eyes lowered in prayer and therefore miss the EMHCs purifying the vessels or whatever, it is no sin for you, and you have no responsibility in the matter. OTOH, if you purposefully keep your eyes lowered most of the time, not from prayer but to avoid seeing an abuse, well, that’s between you and God.

Once again, IANACL. But I would not accept anyone putting any more responsibility on you without clear quotations from the relevant official Church documents. And a quotation saying it’s an abuse, is not the same as a quotation saying you shouldn’t receive communion at a Mass where the abuse occurred, nor is it the same as a quotation saying that it is your responsibility to fix it.

–Jen

• I Am Not A Canon Lawyer

Thank you so much Jen for taking the time out of your day to answer these questions of mine You have no idea how much what you wrote helped to bring back a sense of peace and hope in my heart. I would have been so lost on what to do had it not been for the assistance of you, benedictgal, mark and others. Rest assured that you will be in my prayers God bless you!

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by revert_jen
Sorry! I don’t know about anyone else, but IANACL*, so I have to figure it out. Aramis cited Redemptionis Sacramentum, but I have read that document before, and I just looked at what I think are the relevant parts again, and I can’t see where it says some of the things Aramis says. In particular, I can’t find anything saying:

“If you can not receive except by participation in that error, go elsewhere or don’t receive.”

I am certainly willing to be corrected if it’s in there, but I can’t find it. Also, I can’t remember if anyone has posted this before, but here is a link to Redemptionis Sacramentum online in case you want to look for yourself:

***Having also read this document although awhile back, I agree that it’s not in there as a direct quote.

However implicitly it may be? The advise is sound. Rather than participate in a sinful act; known to b a sinful act; one should chose not to participate. If i means going elsewhere, then that frind is what God is asking of you.

Love and prayers,***