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ChristHealsAll
Guest
no, I’m not. Absolutely not. I’m doing it because I love her. But there are posts in here that say you should stop doing those things if you have a physical reaction. That’s what confuses me.
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Marc_Aupiais
Guest
The reaction itself does not constitute lust: however: it could be temptation to lust. French kissing mostly is lust: or causing another to lust: which is the sin of scandal: outside marriage of course. The question is: does she do it with you purely for the pleasure, or for the pleasure, or as a sign of love:
Aquinas is the “I answer that” part:
newadvent.org/summa/3154.htm#article4
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Marc_Aupiais
Guest
also notable:
"I answer that, As stated above (Objection 2), “pudicitia” [purity] takes its name from “pudor,” which signifies shame. Hence purity must needs be properly about the things of which man is most ashamed. Now men are most ashamed of venereal acts, as Augustine remarks (De Civ. Dei xiv, 18), so much so that even the conjugal act, which is adorned by the honesty [Cf. 145] of marriage, is not devoid of shame: and this because the movement of the organs of generation is not subject to the command of reason, as are the movements of the other external members. Now man is ashamed not only of this sexual union but also of all the signs thereof, as the Philosopher observes (Rhet. ii, 6). Consequently purity regards venereal matters properly, and especially the signs thereof, such as impure looks, kisses, and touches. And since the latter are more wont to be observed, purity regards rather these external signs, while chastity regards rather sexual union. Therefore purity is directed to chastity, not as a virtue distinct therefrom, but as expressing a circumstance of chastity. Nevertheless the one is sometimes used to designate the other.
"
newadvent.org/summa/3151.htm#article4
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Mattapoisett64
Guest
Since French kissing is not in itself procreative, could it be held that it is wrongfully lustful even *within *marriage if it is done apart from the marriage act – e.g., in the morning before leaving for work or when one spouse departs for a trip? There have been several threads that have tried to address the question of when acts that are legitimate within marital foreplay become wrong, even within marriage, due to separation in time from the marriage act itself.
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Marc_Aupiais
Guest
Kiss before work: followed by act in the evening: I don’t know: depends on numerous factors: there is likely no absolute answer here: numerous shades of gray!
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Marc_Aupiais
Guest
Also of note: we are allowed natural family planning: in general: it should be within the context of a sexual relationship, and lead up to sexual intercourse, or at least have the option of such: otherwise it tempts the partner in a wrong manner. And so: a French Kiss, should always be a promise, even as a normal kiss is but a sign: yet if pursued for pleasure: should be within the context of the act! Of course, all should be within accepting Humane Vitae!
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BiologyBrain
Guest
Wow what a long thread!
I think it comes down to two things…
As someone previously mentioned, sexual arousal is a biological fact that cannot necessarily be controlled or predicted. Sometimes it is an unintended consequence of the mere presence of a loved one (or even the thought of a loved one). To indulge in these things for the purpose of arousal (and the subsequent feelings associated) is wrong b/c it abuses one’s own sexuality and can objectify one’s partner/spouse. However, to innocently or accidentally become aroused either by thought or action, is not in & of itself wrong. Its the actions that follow that can be wrong - even w/n marriage.
FWIW I can ‘passionately kiss’ my husband and feel no arousal at all - him too (not aroused). However, there are times when he can simply look at me or I can look at him & feel aroused (both of us fully clothed). In neither instance are we sinning - its just a consequence of love and hormones. Sometimes passionate kissing is a promise of what’s to come. Sometimes words are inadequate for expressing the depth of your feelings at the moment. The same can be said for caressing (not genital) or other acts of love. There are times when I am most aroused by my husband doing his job & almost completely ignoring me - but its psychological - not physical. I see how hard he’s working to support the family and his dedication to his work for that purpose. I can translate that in my mind to how hard he’s working for his family and his dedication to his family. That makes my heart overflow w/ love & sometimes I want to show my love in the purest, most beautiful means possible.
I think it comes down to two things…
- are you passionately kissing to become sexually aroused or to incite your partner to become sexually aroused?
- do you follow through w/ the sexual arousal?
As someone previously mentioned, sexual arousal is a biological fact that cannot necessarily be controlled or predicted. Sometimes it is an unintended consequence of the mere presence of a loved one (or even the thought of a loved one). To indulge in these things for the purpose of arousal (and the subsequent feelings associated) is wrong b/c it abuses one’s own sexuality and can objectify one’s partner/spouse. However, to innocently or accidentally become aroused either by thought or action, is not in & of itself wrong. Its the actions that follow that can be wrong - even w/n marriage.
FWIW I can ‘passionately kiss’ my husband and feel no arousal at all - him too (not aroused). However, there are times when he can simply look at me or I can look at him & feel aroused (both of us fully clothed). In neither instance are we sinning - its just a consequence of love and hormones. Sometimes passionate kissing is a promise of what’s to come. Sometimes words are inadequate for expressing the depth of your feelings at the moment. The same can be said for caressing (not genital) or other acts of love. There are times when I am most aroused by my husband doing his job & almost completely ignoring me - but its psychological - not physical. I see how hard he’s working to support the family and his dedication to his work for that purpose. I can translate that in my mind to how hard he’s working for his family and his dedication to his family. That makes my heart overflow w/ love & sometimes I want to show my love in the purest, most beautiful means possible.
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holyrosary11
Guest
It’s very wrong.
It bonds you to a person and if you are not right for that person, why get bonded? It just makes things more problematic.
OUr bodies are not meant to go half way
It bonds you to a person and if you are not right for that person, why get bonded? It just makes things more problematic.
OUr bodies are not meant to go half way
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TylerM
Guest
Well, all sexuality (hugging, kissing, etc. . .) bonds us to another. However, surely all such expressions are not wrong. These acts are, it seems, a way of knowing the other. In my opinion this personal knowledge is very important to finding that right person. Moreover, there is a HUGE difference between the bonding of these expressions and the sacramental bond of marital intimacy! Thus, I would contend that activities not condemned by Church are a matter of conscience. Talk to a solid Priest.
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godsgurl
Guest
THAT is a great test!! It answered my “how far is too far” question. thank YOU!!
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TylerM
Guest
I don’t think that rule applies. . . lol.
I think the point is to love others as people created in God’s image, not imagine them as God. A good test I heard was that one ought to treat women as I would want a man to treat a sister of mine.
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tjm190
Guest
AHHHHH. That’s my first name and last initial. This is going to be confusing for me.I don’t think that rule applies. . . lol.
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godsgurl
Guest
yeah…i just meant that that rule can help you draw the line…I don’t think that rule applies. . . lol.
your rule is good too cept im a girl…so we may have to change a few words there…
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Person
Guest
I agree with your reply to my post. The husband will probably be able to move on with his day quite comfortably while perhaps anticipating completion of “the act” with his wife later. My previous post does come off as legalistic.
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JaredM
Guest
Do Catholics view two homosexuals kissing passionately?
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Person
Guest
I assume you are asking what the Catholic view is on this.
Two homosexuals passionately kissing is a complicated one. They are not married to one another according to the Church and they, I assume, are arousing desires that can only be fulfilled in marriage. Therefore, for the same reasons that it is gravely evil for unmarried heterosexual couples to passionately kiss, it follows that it is also gravely evil for two homosexuals to do the same.
The homosexual desire is not sinful. It is the acting on it that can be sinful once someone understands that it is seriously evil.
I am a Catholic therapist and moral theologian who specializes in treating unwanted same-sex attraction. If the passionate kissing is a compulsion, then it is the duty of the one with the compulsion to get treated for it. This is similar with those who have a compulsion to drink excessively.
I’ve submitted an article to www.CatholicTherapsists.com on treating same-sex attraction but it isn’t posted yet. Once it is, you may wish to visit catholictherapists.com/tschmierer/ and look at the “Articles” section. I already have one out in general about pornography addictions and other compulsions: catholictherapists.com/addictions/overcoming-pornography-addiction-and-other-compulsions.html.
Peace in Christ.
Two homosexuals passionately kissing is a complicated one. They are not married to one another according to the Church and they, I assume, are arousing desires that can only be fulfilled in marriage. Therefore, for the same reasons that it is gravely evil for unmarried heterosexual couples to passionately kiss, it follows that it is also gravely evil for two homosexuals to do the same.
The homosexual desire is not sinful. It is the acting on it that can be sinful once someone understands that it is seriously evil.
I am a Catholic therapist and moral theologian who specializes in treating unwanted same-sex attraction. If the passionate kissing is a compulsion, then it is the duty of the one with the compulsion to get treated for it. This is similar with those who have a compulsion to drink excessively.
I’ve submitted an article to www.CatholicTherapsists.com on treating same-sex attraction but it isn’t posted yet. Once it is, you may wish to visit catholictherapists.com/tschmierer/ and look at the “Articles” section. I already have one out in general about pornography addictions and other compulsions: catholictherapists.com/addictions/overcoming-pornography-addiction-and-other-compulsions.html.
Peace in Christ.
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benidict
Guest
Only if your really bad at it, and dont know what you are doing…
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benidict
Guest
If they are women I have no problem with it.:hypno: Two guys? Disgusting. :tsktsk: If your into female body builders? Then you are a braver man than me.
God bless you Jared. I will admit to a double standard. 
At least im honest. Peace 
P.s. here is a link for you my friend. Enjoy.bodybuilders.com/pics/fempic.htm
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Holly3278
Guest
I believe it would be wrong and actually sinful. This is especially the case if they are passionately kissing out of lust for each, like if they are making out or something. That said, I think that before marriage, the farthest that kissing should go is simply a peck on the cheek or lips. But then again, maybe I’m just old fashioned. 
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