Is performing security work at an abortion clinic sinful?

[flameburns623]

We’re still using the Nazis as the ‘most extreme example’. Any number of reasons why the parallels are unfair. We live in a republican democracy where we can actually work to change the law–no one could stand outside a death camp and protest the goings-on inside. There was in fact outright denial of what was happening inside the camps. While there is disagreement among contemporary citizens about what abortion is or what it does, no one is pretending that abortions are not actually happening.

Hitler, despite popular opinion was probably never popularly elected ( the votes were likely to have been fixed according to many analysts, with ballot boxes stuffed and rampant intimidation). Once in power, the Nazi regime was in no wise a democratic regime–the whole crux of Nazi philosophy was that an absolute leader needed to rule over Germany to elevate that nation to it’s rightful place. We may scream about judges usurping their rightful role–they ARE–but we are not without legal recourse to correct these abuses. We just aren’t exercising our recourse in sufficient numbers–if all Catholics had voted pro-life in this last election, we would not have a plethora of new pro-abortion politicians taking office in January.

Please remember too the time period when this happened–about 18 to 20 years ago, when there was less activism and less awareness of the issue even among Roman Catholics. Even my LDS bishop suggested I wait a few months before requesting a transfer.

I myself would not accept an assignment like this again–but then, I know more now about the industry I work in. And in any case, I have 20-plus years of experience in the field now, which would make it much easier for me to change companies if someone played hardball with the rules about not refusing assignments. The security industry tends to be a bit recession-proof–as times get harder, crime rises and the need for security tends to increase. And you’d be surprised how many people cannot qualify for a security license for various reasons. So experienced officers are usually highly employable.

I am glad that by speaking up to some of the abortion escorts about my actual feelings, I inadvertently got myself reassigned.

YipYupYep:

Every person who can stop an assault has a moral obligation to do so.

One head’s up about this comment: you may have a ‘moral obligation’ to stop a crime, but don’t assume you have the LEGAL right to perform a ‘citizen’s arrest’: most states and municipalities do NOT provide for such an arrest, and in many states ONLY a law-enforcement or licensed security person can actually make an arrest. Know the law in your area–NOT hearsay about the law, but the actual statute(s) that will cover you if you choose to intervene in a criminal situation. And remember that the criminal is probably a lot more ready to hurt you than you are to hurt them.

 

[Aramis]

Serving as a guard there because you were assigned is no sin.

Opting for said assignment might be.

Persons attacking clients or staff ARE sinning, and if you prevent them from so doing by your presence, that is worthy.

Direct aid would be a sin… but security persons are seldom in position to do direct aid. Encouraging their clients would be direct aid. Do not say anything to encourage their clients.

 

[manualman]

As far as I know, no Nazi prison “guards” were prosecuted for war crimes. Those who directly participated in the killing, yes. But not the conscript who manned the guard towers.

That said it still isn’t duty I’d want. And I don’t think it is really an extreme example. The concentration camps killed in the ballpark of 13 million innocents. The abortion clinics now gross nearly 50 million. Which is more extreme?

 

[TLM08]

If you lived back in WWII Germany and someone was about to bring harm to Adolph Hitler, would you protect him?

DEATH SCORE CARD

Adolph Hitler (1936 to 1945) = 10,000,000

Abortionists (1973 to present) = 40,000,000

What do YOU think?

 

[flameburns623]

For what it is worth–I do plan to discuss the situation in the confessional with a priest. It was something which, at the time, I did not consider sinful of itself, for many of the reasons I have pointed out here. I did think it bore the appearance of impropriety. I would not have deemed it ‘material cooperation’, voluntary or otherwise. Not sure if I had ever heard of such a term until recently, frankly. I was more inclined to feel that for a Christian, the job bore the ‘appearance of impropriety’, or the potential for ‘scandal’, rather than seeing the job itself as somehow possibly innately sinful.

At the time of the assignment, I saw my role as somewhat akin to one that has come up a few times in St. Louis: a security officer or law-enforcement officer is in the vicinity of some low-life drug dealer or pimp being attacked because of a bad deal. The security officer or cop takes action to protect the dealer or the pimp NOT because they support narcotics trafficking or prostitution. They do it because attacks by one party or parties on anothers are not a lawful or appropriate way to resolve disputes about any sort of bad business deal.

It should be noted that one of the ways that security differs from police work is that a security officer’s role is primarily focused upon visible deterrence of crime–whereas a police officer frequently looks for opportunities to wade into the middle of a crime already in progress or having just been perpetrated. My job at the clinic–as I saw it then–was to help discourage people by my visible presence from committing crimes. (Obviously the sight of a cop deters some crimes–ever let off the gas pedal because you see a police car up ahead? and, security officers sometimes get into the middle of a crime in progress. There is however usually a distinction in the focus of each job).

Frankly I had forgotten about the clinic assignment for years, until as I noted, I heard the EWTN program. Even that might not have jogged my memory except that I was actually in the process of an examination of conscience that weekend, preparatory for the time that I can go to confession. Hence my desire to pursue the subject for greater clarification here.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks!

 

[Lujack]

If you lived back in WWII Germany and someone was about to bring harm to Adolph Hitler, would you protect him?

DEATH SCORE CARD

Adolph Hitler (1936 to 1945) = 10,000,000

Abortionists (1973 to present) = 40,000,000

What do YOU think?

But assaulting people in an abortion clinic does not prevent abortions; it just makes us look like lunatics who run around hitting pregnant woman.

Is that an image we really want for the pro-life movement?

 

[Coder]

To the O.P., avoid providing any services of any kind to abortion facilities. If I had such a job and it required me to be on-site at an abortion facility, I don’t think I would do it all even if I had to quit. Thinking of those little children one can see that abortion is such a terrible evil. If it’s remote video monitoring etc. then *perhaps *you can tolerate it briefly as an unwanted side effect of employment while you seek a solution.

You never want to get to a point where you just accept it or let others think that you accept it.

It’s good that you are concerned. I empathize with you since we live in a world with many dilemnas. I know it’s easier said than done. Very best to you.

 

[TLM08]

But assaulting people in an abortion clinic does not prevent abortions; it just makes us look like lunatics who run around hitting pregnant woman.

Is that an image we really want for the pro-life movement?

From a morality standpoint, imagine a serial killer who hunts his prey at crowded malls, taking sleeping newborns from their mother’s stroller, running to a get away car, driving a short distance to a private place and butchering the terrified child alive and throwing the remains in a dumpster.

Now imagine this maniac striking three times per day, over a thirty year time span. It would be the story of the century! And this is only ONE abortionist in a country where thousands conduct this horror show.

In fact, the serial killer is likely suffering from EXTREME mental illness due to the horrific nature of his crimes. Whereas the abortionist is doing this for profit. From a culpability standpoint, the serial killer might be in a better situation come judgement day due to his mental illness.

I wouldn’t protect these satanic monsters if you paid me a million dollars a day.

 

[Lujack]

From a morality standpoint, imagine a serial killer who hunts his prey at crowded malls, taking sleeping newborns from their mother’s stroller, running to a get away car, driving a short distance to a private place and butchering the terrified child alive and throwing the remains in a dumpster.

Now imagine this maniac striking three times per day, over a thirty year time span. It would be the story of the century! And this is only ONE abortionist in a country where thousands conduct this horror show.

In fact, the serial killer is likely suffering from EXTREME mental illness due to the horrific nature of his crimes. Whereas the abortionist is doing this for profit. From a culpability standpoint, the serial killer might be in a better situation come judgement day due to his mental illness.

I wouldn’t protect these satanic monsters if you paid me a million dollars a day.

Fine, but that doesn’t make assaulting people at the clinics an effective tool. Prudence would require to use our heads instead of lashing out, and realize that we need to win this one politically.

We can’t conquer abortion clinics; it isn’t going to happen that way. Do you really think that hitting a pregnant woman and her doctor is going do us any good?

If anything, a security job can do an indirect service to the pro-life movement by preventing an incident that makes us all look like fools and madmen.

Do abortionists deserve punishment? Yes, probably. Should we punish them as vigilantes? No, it won’t accomplish anything.

 

[YipYupYep]

Fine, but that doesn’t make assaulting people at the clinics an effective tool. Prudence would require to use our heads instead of lashing out, and realize that we need to win this one politically.

I didn’t see anyone posting here advocating assault. Thats not the issue. The problem is being part of the machinery of the greatest mass murder in the history of the planet.

The nurse in the treatment room does not personally pull the baby appart with the forecepts or suck its brain out in partial birth, but assists. How is the guard outside the door working, any different from the assistant inside the room working. Both are part of the process.

If the job is done, than its done, however, if the guard is now working, they must not continue.

If the guard visits the Sacrament of Reconciliation and requests absolution, yes, he or she is sorry, and yes, he or she has been forgiven. Sin is a disease. What about the damage of being a cog in the wheel of murder on a vast scale? The damage to the spiritual self of the guard. It does not just not go away when you walk out of the confessional. This cure would require the help of a mature Catholic Spiritual Adviser over a period of time.

Sorry.

 

[bella5]

Wow! That’s a toughy! I’m tempted to ask what you think: do you think it’s a sin? Do you feel guilty about it? I ask because the Church has consistently taught that each person must follow their well-formed conscience in all matters. Well-formed, meaning that they have fully taken into account the teaching found in scripture and tradition.

You are not performing abortions, but you would wonder whether you are actually, in some way, helping abortions to be performed. If you feel you are, in some way, facilitating abortions, then yes, I think that would be a worry.

Prayers & best wishes!

Yep I agree…