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MindOverMatter
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What do you think of peter kreeft?
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cpayne
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There seem to be two different questions (hi, MindOM). What do I think of Peter Kreeft? I love him and his writing; he is gifted and wise. Is he the best Catholic philosopher of our age? NO—as he himself would also state.
In response to the logical follow-up question, I’d list (off the top of my head): Eleonore Stump, Ralph McInerny, Scott MacDonald, Robert George, Russell Hittinger, Francis Beckwith, the current Pope, John Finnis, and so on. And those are just philosophers writing in* English*.
In response to the logical follow-up question, I’d list (off the top of my head): Eleonore Stump, Ralph McInerny, Scott MacDonald, Robert George, Russell Hittinger, Francis Beckwith, the current Pope, John Finnis, and so on. And those are just philosophers writing in* English*.
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Sarpedon
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His “Handbook of Christian Apologetics” had some pretty lame arguments. For example, Jesus is God because it would be contrary to His personality to lie.
Kreeft seems to have intended the book to be a collection of all arguments, whether they are good or not, but I don’t think that’s a good idea if some are really bad.
Kreeft seems to have intended the book to be a collection of all arguments, whether they are good or not, but I don’t think that’s a good idea if some are really bad.
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MindOverMatter
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I have never read the book so i cannot tell what context the argument was being made in. As an argument that claimed the title of necessity, i feel it is a poor argument. But would you not agree that some personalities are less likely to lie then others?
The real question is, considering the historical context on which the new testament is based, what motive does Jesus have for lying?
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Sarpedon
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How would an atheist determine the personality of Jesus?
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MindOverMatter
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Considering the historical context and the dangers of claiming to be equal to God in those times, what possible benefit or motive does Jesus have for lying?
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Sarpedon
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Joseph Smith was killed for his very unpopular polygamous beliefs. How would an atheist know what Jesus actually said or did? Through the Biblical accounts?
I am a Catholic, and I see complete logical support for Catholicism, but not on this one issue.
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MindOverMatter
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Fair enough.
What do you think of peter-kreefts argument from desire? He basically says that man desires more then the world can give us; so we must be made for another world. Or rather, there must be more to reality then the finite pleasures of the Universe.
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Goddra2
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I’d say it is a good argument, but you take the argument out of context. Kreeft builds it from a dilemma: Lord or Liar, to a trilemma: Lord, Liar, or Lunatic, to a quadrilemma:Lord, Liar, Lunatic, or Myth, to a quintilemma: Lord, Liar, Lunatic, Myth, or Guru.
Yes, the liar argument on its own is hardly satisfatroy, but that’s because it isn’t meant to go on its own! He uses it to provide a stepping stone to the final quintilemma, which makes it a good one. This is method of reasoning he uses at several points in the book. If not A, then B, if not B, then C, if not C, then D, if not D, then E. But out of the 5 choices, Jesus cannot be B, C, D, or E, so he must be A.
To say that his argument for B is weak as it stands alone only suggests you haven’t comprehended the full argument.
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pnewton
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He himself would state that he is not so much a philosopher as a teacher of philosophy. He explains those arguements that others have come across using his own analogies and thought experiments. I do not know if he is the best or not. He can think circles around me so I am unqualified to comment on how he compares with others.
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Statius
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I don’t know if he’s the best, but I certainly find him very readable, and he can have quite a turn of phrase at times.
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cpayne
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A quick note about the “Handbook of Christian Apologetics”: This is always the first book I recommend for students with questions about the faith. I made sure our college library purchased it.
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Contarini
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He’s a decent apologist. He’s probably about the 3,000th best Catholic philosopher of our age, and that’s being generous.
Edwin
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cpayne
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Could you be a little more precise? I mean, if I were the 3,001st-best, I would want to know if Kreeft was ahead of me or not.
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MarcoPolo
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Anyone who wants to see him this month can do so for free at North Park University in Chicago on March 26. I think a lot of his other talks around the country might be free too. Here’s his speaking schedule.
I personally like him a lot. Probably not #1 in the world, especially when someone reminded me of Benedict XVI.
But I think he has a lot to offer.
I personally like him a lot. Probably not #1 in the world, especially when someone reminded me of Benedict XVI.
But I think he has a lot to offer.
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cpayne
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Of course, my inordinate interest in ranking myself probably lowers me further, so never mind. 
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Sarpedon
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It’s based on the idea that Jesus was not a liar, lunatic, myth, or guru. Except for myth, these are all character qualities. How is an atheist supposed to judge the character qualities of a man who lived 2,000 years ago? Through documents written hundreds of years later? Atheists do not believe in scriptural inspiration.
The Bible can be supported through various means, such as historical evidence, but not in a conclusive manner from a secular standpoint. This isn’t a problem, because we accept the Bible on the authority of the Church, which is supported by a different logical argument. The quintilemma argument looks lame to atheists because it assumes that atheists and non-Christians already trust the Church and the Bible, which is obviously untrue. The quintilemma can only be considered if the Bible is already accepted as being wholly true, which no non-Christian will accept.
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Sarpedon
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I can’t remember his particular phrasing off the top of my head, but these sorts of arguments are usually good, but ineffective, at least initially, on firm scientific-type atheists. The argument from desire is almost a poetic argument, and one that needs to be sensed to be understood. Since most atheists have taught themselves to only think in highly narrow, rigid, and scientific ways, many will not understand this argument because they subconsciously no longer recognize poetry in the world.
The best argument for God I have ever seen are the various variations of EAAN: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eaan
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Gottle_of_Geer
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Not having read him, I can’t comment on his works. As for the question, ISTM that it will be easier to answer once he is dead and thoise competent to do so are are in a position to look at everything he will ever have written. Judging people’s legacy is not easy while they are still alive & productive; especially in a culture like our own, which is impatient, suppeerficial, & sets a high value on instant (& usually baseless) reputation. Wait until he’s dead and add a generation - & maybe the time will be ripe for a considered appraisal.
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