Is poor Catechetics the problem?

[fhansen]

I kind of don’t know what to say. To me, this is prima facie false and could not be true for so many reasons it almost is pointless to discuss. But I suppose you feel the same about my religion.

Well, I kinda don’t know what to say, either. Obviously, both Mormons and Catholics believe they have a sort of inside track on some aspects of the hereafter but Mormons certainly can’t support or prove many of there notions either so maybe it is pointless to discuss. I’ve simply come to trust the Church-much to my own surprise after leaving her so many years ago-on so many center-stage issues that I no longer sweat some of the details- or I’ve looked into them enough by now to understand and accept them.
Anyway, Happy New Year!

 

[mfbukowski]

Anyway, Happy New Year!

Same to you!

 

[totoatkansas]

The church my two daughters were indocrinated in they were kept awake all hrs and pressured into reading and memorizing certain scripture reading, and consistantly told what terrible sinners they were. It was as tho they were broken down then built back up in a new church. They refered to themselves as baby christians and were trying to convert me also.
There seemed to be nothing I could do. I prayed; I talked ; I preached; I talked to one Pastor in my church and he just gave me a book to read. I did find a Priest who took me serious we talked for a long while and he said I probably had to make a decision and that was to have them leave my home. because they were keeping me upset. It was very difficult for me.
I simply explained to them that my home was a Catholic home and if they could not respect the Catholic Church that they would have to leave. They then had moved into one of the church members home. They were told all the lies re: the Catholic Church, worshiping Mary, etc; etc;. These same girls went to a Catholic school thru the 8th grade. I thought they were catechized well but either I was mistaken or these other people they came in contact with are great with their propaganda. It is sad because they are teaching my grandchildren all the lies of Mcarthurism, Luther and Calvin re: the True Church they grew up with. I have hope like St. Monica and pray about this all the time. I can,t help tho but think that for some reason this has been Gods Will and when He is ready they will return to the Catholic Church…I pray

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

A merciful God would not let those babies go to Hell. So if they’re not going to Hell and they’re not going to Purgatory, Paradise is all that remains.

BUT AS I SAID ~ Don’t take my word for it, ask a priest!

How is that different in kind from the argument that “God is too good to allow one to be damned” ? It’s quite widespread, that one. However appalling Augustine’s own doctrine may be, it is at least logical: he regarded unbaptised babies as damned in the full sense - no fringe area of perfect natural happiness for them (the later idea), but eternal punishment: even if its pains were “the very mildest”. Why should the unbaptised who are not in God’s friendship not be punished ? People are so sentimental - unbaptised babies are as as fit for the fires of hell as any rapist or murderer, because God’s grace is essential for salvation. It is self-contradictory to think otherwise, for this amounts to saying one can have God’s life without being in communion with God. IMHO, the OP does not go far enough.​

 

[Hesychios]

Hello Ag_not,

Forgive me, but I have not followed the course of this thread, and so what I state here may have been said somewhere already.

I have two comments, and only two.

But I can’t help wondering, if these people had been properly, and I mean properly catechized in the beginning, would they have left the church.

Many people have also wondered this. I am not being facetious when I state that, for some people, excellent catechetics would have hastened their departure! Not so for everyone however.

What I am stating, in other words, is that it is not a foregone conclusion that better catechetics would have prevented all, or even most, of those losses.

On the contrary it may have clarified the issues for some much more quickly and expedited some person’s decisions to leave.

Just wondering. Any thoughts? And if that is so, then who needs to start doing the correcting? Churches? Schools? Families?

Bruxilda x

My thought is this:

Poor catechetics is a symptom of much deeper institutional problems. Without addressing those first, do not expect the level of catechesis to rise overall.

BTW, I will not argue with your assessment of the official CCC as promulgated by Pope John Paul II in 1992 (and the English version with corrections a few years later). It is a fairly comprehensive piece of work, and an easy study for those so interested.

 

[peary]

Well, I kinda don’t know what to say, either. Obviously, both Mormons and Catholics believe they have a sort of inside track on some aspects of the hereafter but Mormons certainly can’t support or prove many of there notions either so maybe it is pointless to discuss. I’ve simply come to trust the Church-much to my own surprise after leaving her so many years ago-on so many center-stage issues that I no longer sweat some of the details- or I’ve looked into them enough by now to understand and accept them.
Anyway, Happy New Year!

Mormons do not have an historical/physical apostolic succession as the Church does. This is important because it points to the authenticity of the Catholic Church.

 

[ralphinal]

Hello Ag_not,

Forgive me, but I have not followed the course of this thread, and so what I state here may have been said somewhere already.

I have two comments, and only two.
Many people have also wondered this. I am not being facetious when I state that, for some people, excellent catechetics would have hastened their departure! Not so for everyone however.

What I am stating, in other words, is that it is not a foregone conclusion that better catechetics would have prevented all, or even most, of those losses.

On the contrary it may have clarified the issues for some much more quickly and expedited some person’s decisions to leave.
My thought is this:

Poor catechetics is a symptom of much deeper institutional problems. Without addressing those first, do not expect the level of catechesis to rise overall.

BTW, I will not argue with your assessment of the official CCC as promulgated by Pope John Paul II in 1992 (and the English version with corrections a few years later). It is a fairly comprehensive piece of work, and an easy study for those so interested.

There is a logic to what you say about proper catechetics not meaning prevention of people leaving. I would rather know that people left knowing what the Church taught and not because they disagree with what she does not teach

I also agree that it was a sign of deeper problems. I for one think many of those issues have been or are being addressed

 

[Ronald_E]

My thought is this:

Poor catechetics is a symptom of much deeper institutional problems. Without addressing those first, do not expect the level of catechesis to rise overall.

.

This is the major point that needs to be addressed. There is a great understanding of scripture but very little understanding of the dynamics of human development and human attachment and how the quality of the attachment determines for the vast majority whether or not the faith has validity.
I am greatly disappointed in those who profess the faith on the radio and exhibit a certain degree of hardness in their tone and have no understanding about the human condition. I left because of human beings and returned 40 years later because of God. I stay because of God.

 

[jmcrae]

Poor catechetics is a symptom of much deeper institutional problems. Without addressing those first, do not expect the level of catechesis to rise overall.

You are so right. In many places, there is an entrenched culture of minimalism and indifferentism, and it’s incredibly difficult to overcome that kind of inertia.

 

[Scott_D]

I have 5 daughters and 1 son between the ages of 2 1/2 and 13 and I have experienced the catechesis in our area several times with our kids. I have to say that the catechesis for our little people, at least in my corner of the States is terrible at best. For those about to receive the Holy Host for the first time, the Eucharist is taught as a community meal only, not as a bloodless sacrafice. In fact, one of my daughters said she spent the better part of that crucial year learning about Noah.

Our education director, who oversees about 6-7 churches in our parish said, “there is no purgatory; we don’t even teach it anymore because it scares the kids.” When I quoted Christ Himself to her, “settle with your opponent on your way to prison. Amen Amen I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid back the last penny,” she responded, "the Bible was written so long ago that no one really knows what the author’s intended. Not only is this woman in charge of all of the ccd programs in the area, she is also in charge at our local Catholic elementary school. Needless to say, we now take care of preparing our young ones for the sacraments at home!