Is poor Catechetics the problem?

[Ag_not]

I was just wondering. For the ex-catholicss here, I mean, not people that were never catholic in the first place.
In one way, it seems like too simple an answer, and in another way, it seems to me to make a lot of sense.

Ive read tons of stories here from ex catholics who now believe they are home. Their criticisms of the Catholic Church vary yet they seem to also echo each other.

Everything from not feeling a ‘‘vibe’’ in the community, to priestly abuse, to too many rules and regulations, to heavens knows what else, and everything in between.

But I can’t help wondering, if these people had been properly, and I mean properly catechised in the beginning, would they have left the church.

I’m beginning to get the idea that the lack of decent catechetics in these peoples lives is what casued them to leave the church so quickly and readily, or, as in some cases, over a period of time.

The catechism is one of the most awesome documents Ive ever read. It is an educational masterpiece in my view, and from it you get all the referreces to scripture, tradition and early church fathers, church documents, saints, and heaven knows everything else, to flesh out any statement, claim, or instruction made in it.

The catechist I am receiving instruction from is awesome, and Father has made time for myself and another woman who are, erm, a bit troublesome outside of class, and gives us tons more stuff to work with and study.

I can’t help but think if cradle catholics and those who left the church had received a good solid basis in catechetics, they would never have the trouble they do with certain scriptural verses, would realise that the mass is not a popularity contest but celebrating the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, for us, The Eucharist is Real, and the ONLY and TOTAL focus should be on HIM and HIM alone, and would never listen to Pastor Nicey Spicey and think WOW! Finally I see the light!!! They would be able to correct his or her misguided attempts from the get go.

Just wondering. Any thoughts? And if that is so, then who needs to start doing the correcting? Churches? Schools? Families?

Bruxilda x

 

[ferdie]

I was just wondering. For the ex-catholicss here, I mean, not people that were never catholic in the first place.
In one way, it seems like too simple an answer, and in another way, it seems to me to make a lot of sense.

Ive read tons of stories here from ex catholics who now believe they are home. Their criticisms of the Catholic Church vary yet they seem to also echo each other.

Everything from not feeling a ‘‘vibe’’ in the community, to priestly abuse, to too many rules and regulations, to heavens knows what else, and everything in between.

But I can’t help wondering, if these people had been properly, and I mean properly catechised in the beginning, would they have left the church.

I’m beginning to get the idea that the lack of decent catechetics in these peoples lives is what casued them to leave the church so quickly and readily, or, as in some cases, over a period of time.

The catechism is one of the most awesome documents Ive ever read. It is an educational masterpiece in my view, and from it you get all the referreces to scripture, tradition and early church fathers, church documents, saints, and heaven knows everything else, to flesh out any statement, claim, or instruction made in it.

The catechist I am receiving instruction from is awesome, and Father has made time for myself and another woman who are, erm, a bit troublesome outside of class, and gives us tons more stuff to work with and study.

I can’t help but think if cradle catholics and those who left the church had received a good solid basis in catechetics, they would never have the trouble they do with certain scriptural verses, would realise that the mass is not a popularity contest but celebrating the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, for us, The Eucharist is Real, and the ONLY and TOTAL focus should be on HIM and HIM alone, and would never listen to Pastor Nicey Spicey and think WOW! Finally I see the light!!! They would be able to correct his or her misguided attempts from the get go.

Just wondering. Any thoughts? And if that is so, then who needs to start doing the correcting? Churches? Schools? Families?

Bruxilda x

I’m a prime example of this. I grew up a catholic,** never receive cathecism** even from my parents, and with itching ears, I was blown by every wind of doctrines. Only after I’ve researched and studied on my own am I finally back home, but still haven’t received formal catechism.
I think the church needs to constanly remind parishoner that RCIA is not just for the catechumens but for everyone who wants to review or to those who haven’t receive a formal catechism in their life.The church needs to invite their own parishoners, just because they go to church doesn’'t necessarily mean to say they understand the teaching of the church. Then it will be up to the parents to encourage the children or the individual to listen to the church.

 

[RobHom]

The simple answer: YES!!

I went to Catechism in the US, and in Germany…many years ago, and I can tell you that there were ‘different’ teaching styles. Some of the Nuns and Priests could make it interesting and make you want to learn, and on the other hand…others, well…

And then…we were not “indoctrinated or propagandized”, no madrasa style schooling…it was almost as if they knew that many would fall away…only to get it together and return to the Church.

I wish it had been done differently…and even that it had been explained to me why it was so important for me to go and learn.

Dad says GO! You GO!!

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I was just wondering. For the ex-catholicss here, I mean, not people that were never catholic in the first place.
In one way, it seems like too simple an answer, and in another way, it seems to me to make a lot of sense.

Ive read tons of stories here from ex catholics who now believe they are home. Their criticisms of the Catholic Church vary yet they seem to also echo each other.

Everything from not feeling a ‘‘vibe’’ in the community, to priestly abuse, to too many rules and regulations, to heavens knows what else, and everything in between.

But I can’t help wondering, if these people had been properly, and I mean properly catechised in the beginning, would they have left the church.

I’m beginning to get the idea that the lack of decent catechetics in these peoples lives is what casued them to leave the church so quickly and readily, or, as in some cases, over a period of time.

The catechism is one of the most awesome documents Ive ever read. It is an educational masterpiece in my view, and from it you get all the referreces to scripture, tradition and early church fathers, church documents, saints, and heaven knows everything else, to flesh out any statement, claim, or instruction made in it.

The catechist I am receiving instruction from is awesome, and Father has made time for myself and another woman who are, erm, a bit troublesome outside of class, and gives us tons more stuff to work with and study.

I can’t help but think if cradle catholics and those who left the church had received a good solid basis in catechetics, they would never have the trouble they do with certain scriptural verses, would realise that the mass is not a popularity contest but celebrating the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, for us, The Eucharist is Real, and the ONLY and TOTAL focus should be on HIM and HIM alone, and would never listen to Pastor Nicey Spicey and think WOW! Finally I see the light!!! They would be able to correct his or her misguided attempts from the get go.

Just wondering. Any thoughts? And if that is so, then who needs to start doing the correcting? Churches? Schools? Families?

Bruxilda x

I think it is a huge problem that is slowly but surely being corrected.

My wife, who is almost 40, was a cradle Catholic who attended only Catholic schools through college.

She said that she considered herself Catholic, but until my conversion and our relatively recent immersion in the faith she had never known the faith.

It is a sad and common occurrence.

 

[chewchoo]

poor catechesis is not just a problem for the former catholics, it is a problem for many who are sitting in the pews every sunday. and it will remain a problem until a vibrant, on-fire priest (or even a lay person) breaks up the apathy. but even then the fire is just localized to the area around that person.

catholic radio helps (it was my trigger ). the new evangelization is the modern media tools. but you still have to get people’s attention first. and sadly many casual catholics look at fired up catholics like they are crazy. so pray…

 

[ferdie]

poor catechesis is not just a problem for the former catholics, it is a problem for many who are sitting in the pews every sunday. and it will remain a problem until a vibrant, on-fire priest (or even a lay person) breaks up the apathy. but even then the fire is just localized to the area around that person.

catholic radio helps (it was my trigger ). the new evangelization is the modern media tools. but you still have to get people’s attention first. and sadly many casual catholics look at fired up catholics like they are crazy. so pray…

I see a lot of young Filipino priests doing this. They challenge their parishoners by asking them questions instead of the normal homilies. They ask questions like, what are you doing here, you think going to church alone will save you, what are you doing after church, you think after spending an hour inside the church will save you? The new evangelization is working.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I see a lot of young Filipino priests doing this. They challenge their parishoners by asking them questions instead of the normal homilies. They ask questions like, what are you doing here, you think going to church alone will save you, what are you doing after church, you think after spending an hour inside the church will save you? The new evangelization is working.

America need missionaries!

In addition to foreign priests, the new crop of evangelical and other protestant clergy converts is invigorating the Church.

Leaders like Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Partick Madrid, Michael Cumbie, etc. are exciting Catholics by awakening them to the wonderful joys of having found the fullness of truth!

It worked for me!

 

[ziapueblo]

I am lucky that my parents were great teachers of the faith and that my Godfather is a Priest, but I would agree that there are my ex-Catholics due to in-proper catechesis. It seems to me that many of these Catholic leave the Church but end up coming back

I do believe that the catechesis is getting better and that many young Catholics are energized about the faith. What ever happened to the good ol’ Baltimore Catechism that my parents had? It seemed that it was shoved down their mouths but they knew the faith.

 

[Jean_1958]

I believe the biggest problem is parents. You can send your child to a Catholic school or religious education program in your parish, but it is all for nothing if the faith is not lived at home.

I taught religious ed in my parish for two years to fourth graders. The children who got the most out of the program where the ones whose parents where very active in the faith. They went as families to Mass, confession, church functions, etc…

It is very hard, for example, to teach a child the various parts of the Mass and what they mean if the child is never/hardly taken to Mass. It is very hard to teach a child the importance of God when the parents treat the religious ed program as just another after- school activity that can be skipped in order for the child to play in a sports event or act in a school play. Priority should be given to learning about God, but when it is not then what does that teach the child?

There are other factors such as laypersons teaching who might not be well versed in the faith and should not be teaching. However, I really believe it all starts with the parents and living the faith as a family.

Just my take on the question.

God Bless.

Jean

 

[Peregrino]

Can one be “properly catechized” and still disagree?

“Catechized” must be the equivalent of “brainwashed” because it seems that anyone who disagrees with CA propoganda was “not properly catechized”…

 

[Crumpy]

Ag_Not: to your original post:

The way that Father Corapi (on EWTN) puts it, a thousand difficulties do not add up to one doubt (about the Catholic faith).

You never can tell what bothers people, but there is an answer for many if not all of the difficulties that people have with the Catholic Church.

My experience is (by listening to an evangelical, anti-Catholic preacher on an evangelical radio station) that people are often looking for a single excuse to leave the Catholic Church. People will point out a difficulty (something they don’t understand) and they bail out. They often don’t apply the same rigor to the denomination they choose.

You don’t have to look far for problems in the Church – they’ve been there from the very beginning and are documented starting in the Bible. Therefore, just finding something that bothers you should be not a surprise or a special reason to bail out of the Catholic Church.

People trip up on a lot of things, like the Bible, for example. If you simply read the New Testament, you will see that many of the letters were written to existing faith communities of the Church. So, the Church was there “before” the New Testament part of the Bible. So, to me, it’s silly to fall into the “Bible alone” mentality – that’s just not the way it was back then and that’s not the way it is now.

There’s too many other issues to deal with, but I agree that one should be patient and expect to be a lifelong disciple, praying and learning. “Catechism” is the Catholic term for learning the faith – don’t get hung up on that word, as another example.

 

[fhansen]

Our faith must provide solid answers for people. The better a teacher’s knowledge of the faith and the more on fire they are for it, the more successful they are at explaining it. But at the same time the catechumen must be receptive and sometimes that doesn’t even happen until crisis moments in their lives. At that time they’ll need to provide the other important ingredient themselves-that of asking, seeking, and knocking. Catechesis will have hopefully done its’ part by correctly planting the seeds of Catholic truth. And I think we’re beginning to get better at it now.

 

[kellie]

I have to say ‘yes’

I went to a Catholic Primary School, and a Catholic Secondary School here in Melbourne Australia

This was between 1975 and 1987

In those years I received the Sacraments and attended School Masses, and my Mum took me to Mass on Sunday, not as regular as what we are supposed to go though

And I have to say I have learnt lots in the last few years when I started to question my Faith

I have read lots on these forums, followed links to things that are mentioned here, and even listened online to the Radio shows CA do

I never knew what Adoration was til here

I had never actually read the CCC until here

I now understand lots more

Unfortunately I dont know the answer to the problem though of people not being taught the CCC fully

Maybe it is only something that can be fully understood as an adult

 

[po18guy]

I believe the biggest problem is parents. You can send your child to a Catholic school or religious education program in your parish, but it is all for nothing if the faith is not lived at home.

I taught religious ed in my parish for two years to fourth graders. The children who got the most out of the program where the ones whose parents where very active in the faith. They went as families to Mass, confession, church functions, etc…

Jean

At their Baptism, the priest declares in part that the parents “are the child’s first teachers…” so you have a definite point.

The homily is another great area for catechetical teaching, if only it were used more often for such. Some Catholics go through their entire adult lives either mis-believing or mis-practicing their faith “because no one ever told me”

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Can one be “properly catechized” and still disagree?

“Catechized” must be the equivalent of “brainwashed” because it seems that anyone who disagrees with CA propoganda was “not properly catechized”…

Catechization is merely teaching.

The problem referred to in OP is a lack of knowledge of the faith.

 

[wina]

I’m a prime example of this. I grew up a catholic,** never receive cathecism** even from my parents, and with itching ears, I was blown by every wind of doctrines. Only after I’ve researched and studied on my own am I finally back home, but still haven’t received formal catechism.
I think the church needs to constanly remind parishoner that RCIA is not just for the catechumens but for everyone who wants to review or to those who haven’t receive a formal catechism in their life.The church needs to invite their own parishoners, just because they go to church doesn’'t necessarily mean to say they understand the teaching of the church. Then it will be up to the parents to encourage the children or the individual to listen to the church.

I’m the same as Ferdie, I’m cradle catholic, had been taught about a very little catholicsm when wanted to received first communion, learnt a very little more when I wanted to receive confirmation, but there’s not many things about catholic faith I get. But Praise The Lord that He has showed me to get more information about catholic faith, read cathechism of the catholic church, read books about many saints,then I found CAF where I have learnt so many things about catholic faith. Now, I know about catholic more than my parents But through prayers and read bible then my faith is getting stronger and my relationship with God get closer.

 

[Crumpy]

A Lutheran, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, was (roughly speaking) a Lutheran minister, I guess. He died a Lutheran martyr for his faith at the end of world war II. He was accused of plotting against Hitler and executed.

He has left some very interesting writing. “The Cost of Discipleship” is a book that he wrote back in the 1930’s or so. One of the things he talks about is “cheap grace.” He talks about the problem of many Lutherans who sort of latch on to Martin Luther’s idea of salvation by faith alone. This is “cheap” grace because many think that just declaring their faith is all that there is to salvation.

The point to his (lutheran perspective) book is that Christianity is a calling to lifelong suffering. We’re always suffering because we are giving up and denying those parts of ourselves that separate us from Christ, every day.

He has a lot of insights that, in general terms, apply to Catholicism. We all grow up and spend most of our life as adults, and many go to church on Sunday and figure that “that’s it” — the minimum that is expected of being a Catholic. But, we have a lot to learn and benefit by looking all across our faith and realizing what it all means and how it can help develop our spirituality.

One very specific thing that His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI says in his book, Jesus of Nazareth, is that we have a right and a duty to pray to God for all of our needs. On the one hand, we certainly should not take God’s gifts for granted, and on the other hand, we have a right and duty to ask God to sustain us in all our needs.

Another specific thing we ought to understand is the “point” of the story of the exodus of the Jews out of Egypt. God helped the Jews to leave Egypt, so that they could have the freedom to worship God as God should be worshipped. That’s similar to the preceding point, but is worthy of mention, to teach us and remind us of why we go to church on Sunday. Not only do we have the freedom to worship God, but we are commanded by God to worship Him.

Such are the “stuff” of catechesis, things we should know and should want to know. We’ve lost a great resource with the loss of many women’s vocations to the professed religious life in teaching orders. Because of this historical development, catechesis has severely lagged. But, the Vatican Council also gave great stimulus to the role of lay people in the church, and so you see a new “model” of catechesis, especially emphasizing the basic role of parents to educate their children.

As always, catechesis is greatly needed. I seem to recall that John Paul II explained in one of his encyclicals that catechesis is the word that Catholics use when they mean “evangelization.”

 

[Ronald_E]

I just saw this thread and want to express an opinion. My Father was a non-practicing Protestant and Mom, who spent her first 8 years of life in a Catholic orphanage is a non-practicing Catholic. I am the oldest of 6. She had me baptized when I was 6 and I attended Catholic grade school through the 8th grade. I was catechized properly. There is no basic difference between what I was taught back in the 50’s and now.
What I do know that is different is that we relate first to human beings before we relate to God. These human relationships form the basis of our knowledge of God and His Church and our emotional response to this knowledge based on the quality of our relationship to our parents and others who teach us the faith.
We are created in such a way as children that our developing brain is like a sponge and it absorbs every behavior and attitude of the adult world and wires itself in response to the outside world as a guidline for expectations.
If parents and clergy do not exhibit the beauty and love of our faith then our response will not be rewarding to our teachers and our faith no matter how good the catechesis is.
I left Catholicism when I left home at 18 and returned Home Easter of '05 only through the miraculous gift ot Grace from God. Now all the catechesis I had when I was a child makes sense and drives me to a loving relationship with Him and His Church.
I have learned that it is Love that is the most important part of learning about our faith. As children we are created to seek love and if love is missing in any experience we will instinctively want to avoid that experience when possible.

 

[mfbukowski]

I was just wondering. For the ex-catholicss here, I mean, not people that were never catholic in the first place.
In one way, it seems like too simple an answer, and in another way, it seems to me to make a lot of sense.

Ive read tons of stories here from ex catholics who now believe they are home. Their criticisms of the Catholic Church vary yet they seem to also echo each other.

Everything from not feeling a ‘‘vibe’’ in the community, to priestly abuse, to too many rules and regulations, to heavens knows what else, and everything in between.

But I can’t help wondering, if these people had been properly, and I mean properly catechised in the beginning, would they have left the church.

I’m beginning to get the idea that the lack of decent catechetics in these peoples lives is what casued them to leave the church so quickly and readily, or, as in some cases, over a period of time.

The catechism is one of the most awesome documents Ive ever read. It is an educational masterpiece in my view, and from it you get all the referreces to scripture, tradition and early church fathers, church documents, saints, and heaven knows everything else, to flesh out any statement, claim, or instruction made in it.

The catechist I am receiving instruction from is awesome, and Father has made time for myself and another woman who are, erm, a bit troublesome outside of class, and gives us tons more stuff to work with and study.

I can’t help but think if cradle catholics and those who left the church had received a good solid basis in catechetics, they would never have the trouble they do with certain scriptural verses, would realise that the mass is not a popularity contest but celebrating the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, for us, The Eucharist is Real, and the ONLY and TOTAL focus should be on HIM and HIM alone, and would never listen to Pastor Nicey Spicey and think WOW! Finally I see the light!!! They would be able to correct his or her misguided attempts from the get go.

Just wondering. Any thoughts? And if that is so, then who needs to start doing the correcting? Churches? Schools? Families?

Bruxilda x

If this is true, it is either because the church has not structured itself properly, or the members are not interested in learning.

One hour at mass a week is not enough to learn doctrine and attend mass.

So you either have to have “required” (highly recommended, interesting sunday school) or get members motivated to do it themselves.

As a Mormon, rank and file members attend 3 hours per week and all three hours are pretty much doctrinal instruction. Compared to virtually NO doctrinal instruction for catholics except the few minutes they may get in mass – well you can see the difference

 

[spoiltvictorian]

I see a lot of young Filipino priests doing this. They challenge their parishoners by asking them questions instead of the normal homilies. They ask questions like, what are you doing here, you think going to church alone will save you, what are you doing after church, you think after spending an hour inside the church will save you? The new evangelization is working.

I would love that here. Of course, I would have to be prepared to double my tithe when half of the congregation left…