Is Pope Benedict making an impact in the liturgy?

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Asperges_Me

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Next month, October will be a year and a half into Pope Benedict’s reign. Upon his election, some expected and others feared sweeping changes to the liturgy. None have really happened yet. The common consensus in the blogosphere seems to be that change will be slow and that it will be done through example and teaching rather than through papal directives or edicts.

The common buzzword seems to be the “Reform of the Reform”. I am interested in whether anybody detects a shift in liturgical direction during the past year and a half at the parish level. It doesn’t have to be just in the parish you belong to. For the purpose of this survey, more conservative/traditional will mean encountering more Latin, Gregorian chant, return to traditional hymns, practices, etc. More liberal/progressive will mean introducing more new changes, innovations, etc. to the Mass (whether authorized or unauthorized).
 
Asperges_Me said:
Next month, October will be a year and a half into Pope Benedict’s reign. Upon his election, some expected and others feared sweeping changes to the liturgy. None have really happened yet. The common consensus in the blogosphere seems to be that change will be slow and that it will be done through example and teaching rather than through papal directives or edicts.

The common buzzword seems to be the “Reform of the Reform”. I am interested in whether anybody detects a shift in liturgical direction during the past year and a half at the parish level. It doesn’t have to be just in the parish you belong to. For the purpose of this survey, more conservative/traditional will mean encountering more Latin, Gregorian chant, return to traditional hymns, practices, etc. More liberal/progressive will mean introducing more new changes, innovations, etc. to the Mass (whether authorized or unauthorized).
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Asperges Me:

The Church didn’t get into the liturgical mess it’s in in 1-1/2 years. It won’t be fixed in 1-1/2 years either. Pope Benedict was and is a teacher and a pastor a long time before he was made Bishop of Regensburg.

A parish close to me has recently started doing a weekly “Gregorian Chant” Mass and a couple have talked about having organs and choirs or “scholas”, and this is in the Los Angeles Archdiocese, where 25 years ago, I was in the chorus for a parish’s weekly “Guitar Mass”.

I think the USA will probably have more levels of obedience and disobedience than most countries, and I think Pope Benedict XVI will end up haing to confront a more of the Archbishops, Bishops and Priests in America and the rest of the West than the rest of the world where clergy and congregations tend to be more obedient than we are.

I hope this helps t answer your question. I know that I can be wrong.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
At least at my parish, which was the most traditional NO parish in the archdiocese to begin with (that’s why I chose it!😃 ) There have been minor changes. The priest’s have started to chant different collects and even some parts of the Eucharistic prayer, at least one has. But there still are those classic American abuses, even at this great parish, like the Eucharistic Ministers crowding behind the altar while the priest is still consuming Communion and not after. But at least things are starting to change. I think a couple years into Pope Benedict’s pontificate is when we’ll really start to see significant, but good changes. It’s really my conviction that Pope Benedict will in some way make Latin a madatory part of the Mass.
 
I havent seen changes anywhere in the Liturgy. Same as it was last year, and the year before, and the year before that. Same corny music, same over-use of the extraordinary ministers, same priest taking a stroll during the homily, ect, ect.

Except in the TLM once a month. None of the above there (except for the part about it being the same). None of what my grandfather likes to call the “Pauline Mess”.
 
Yes, I have seen changes in local Masses. Some parishes are singing “some” latin. Regretfully, Haugen, Haas and Shutte are still hanging around.

We have been offered a few extra Tridentine Masses in Oregon, however Washington state is still slow.

I had a nice long talk with our local priest and he indicated that he is willing to do whatever the Bishop and B16 tells him to do. He “never studied latin” and he’s near retirement.

Our choir is slowly changing styles. We even sing a few old hymns that are really Catholic.
 
Trident59 said:
Yes, I have seen changes in local Masses. Some parishes are singing “some” latin. Regretfully, Haugen, Haas and Shutte are still hanging around.

We have been offered a few extra Tridentine Masses in Oregon, however Washington state is still slow.

I had a nice long talk with our local priest and he indicated that he is willing to do whatever the Bishop and B16 tells him to do. He “never studied latin” and he’s near retirement.

Our choir is slowly changing styles. We even sing a few old hymns that are really Catholic.
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Lucky you. Things move slower then here in Canada 😉
 
I think those likely to follow a simple example are the same priests who were likely to recognize the traditional wisdom of the example (of His Holiness) to begin with. None of the silliest elements of American liturgy will be solved by papal example because the perpetrators don’t really care what the pope thinks, even, by the way, when that thought is translated into law.
 
My parish (near Los Angeles) continues to become more charismatic at the expense of traditional practices. Our last “traditional” priest, who kept the charismatic but new pastor in check (though we never knew just how much!) was transferred out in June. Since he left, the pastor is completely uninhibited, and has opened the charismatic floodgates; hiring evangelical “ministers”, making the Saturday evening Mass the “Life Teen” mass, etc., adding weeknight prayer “meetings” where you’re encouraged to “interact with God however the spirit moves you” (i.e., holy roller stuff), a swaggering deacon giving homilies from in front of the altar like Jay Leno doing his monologue. This stuff is as alien to me as a Benny Whatsisname revival.

BXVI simply doesn’t have the luxury of time. The American RCC is slipping over the precipice. Five or ten years more and it will be just another generic evangelical denomination.
 
I’ve seen a definite increase in more orthodox practices in the past six months or so. Priests have started bowing their heads at the mention of Jesus name, they have reminded people on several occasions that a bow is required during the Creed and before receiving Holy Communuion. Extraordinary Ministers are still very evident,** but** no longer surround the altar prior to the Priests communion and wait for the Priest to hand them the Hosts and the Chalices where as before in many cases they would just grab them off the altar.

Several churches, during the week I attend daily Mass at several different ones, have started saying the Angelus either before noon mass or after the 6:00pm Mass. I hadn’t seen that done in many years and was a welcome change.

Homilies seem to be a bit more in line with Catholicism, morals and faith versus the endless reams of fluff and I love you you love we’re a happy family that had passed for sermons over the years

Priests that before gave minimal, if any reverence towards the Tabernacle and the Blessed Sacrament are now making a point of genuflecting, in at least two parishes and the people, particularly young people apparently are seeing this and following suit.

At one parish the Priest made a point of actually saying he was amazed that so few people cared enough to attend confessions, and yes, he did call it confession. That sparked an increses in those going.

The rumor is that the Bishop had a talk with the auxiliary Bishops and had the word sent out that he wanted some changes made. Whether or not that is something due to the Holy Father or something the Bishop decided on his own or if it even happened, who can really say?

But, I’ve seen changes, welcome changes, and I do think it will take time, but the Church seems to be on the right track, so I’ll just keep praying and remain faithful to the Church…

I did that when things went sour after Vatican II and I can do the same now:thumbsup: .
 
It’s amazing how a small change can be viewed by some as an improvement. Wake up folks, these are bones they are throwing out to appease the conservatives. Yeah sure you’re getting a little Latin at your “conservative” parrish, St. Lukewarms’ . But around the corner at Our Lady of the Holy Rollers, they’re still swayin’ to the charismatic beat. All part of the smorgasboard. If you’re a stick in the mud… you go the Indult… a middle of the roader… you attend the “conservative” mid-to-low-abuse-tolerance-Novus Ordo service… and if you’re really “with it” you go rock out at the nearest circle in the round style church with the tabernacle and kneelers removed (because of the distractions they cause).

Where’s my pepto bismol?
 
Traditional_Ang said:
Pope Benedict was and is a teacher and a pastor a long time before he was made Bishop of Regensburg.
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Nitpick: Benedict was never Bishop of Regensburg. He was Archbishop of Munich and Freising. In that capacity (and I suppose his current one) the Bishop of Regensburg reported to him.
 
Digitonomy said:
Nitpick: Benedict was never Bishop of Regensburg. He was Archbishop of Munich and Freising. In that capacity (and I suppose his current one) the Bishop of Regensburg reported to him.
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Bishops don’t answer per se to Archbishops. Archbishops head metropolitan sees (archdioceses), which are surrounded by suffragan sees (diocese). An archbishop has one or two extremely limited ways in which he could interefere in a bishop’s governance of that bishop’s diocese (I can’t recall what those things are). So I doubt if there’s a Bishop of Regensburg that he “reported” to the then Cardinal Archbishop Ratzinger. For example, we in the Diocese of Las Vegas are suffragan to the Archdiocese of San Francisco. Our bishop doesn’t answer to the Archbishop and we never hear anything from him.

Come to think of it, IS Regensburg even a seperate diocese? Maybe the area IS a part of Munich/Freising?
 
There’s an old saying that Rome moves slowly.
It is too early to judge what impact Benedict XVI will have on the Mass, or other issues within the Church.
 
The Mass should be solemn, reverant and Holy. Very few Novus Ordos are reverant, solemn or Holy.

Compare the video of the Traditional Mass found in my signature with this video of a Novus Ordo Mass in LA: 70.86.228.61/movie.htm.

Pathetic 😦
 
Caesar said:
The Mass should be solemn, reverant and Holy. Very few Novus Ordos are reverant, solemn or Holy.

Compare the video of the Traditional Mass found in my signature with this video of a Novus Ordo Mass in LA: 70.86.228.61/movie.htm.

Pathetic 😦
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Caesar:

That’s not a fair comparison, and most of the people who are familiar with the situation in the LA Archdioese know that, and most of the posters on this board are familiar with the repeated Liturgical Abuses which Cardinal Mahony has seemed to encourage.

Might I suggest you compare your film of a TLM with one of Pope Benedict’s Masses (readily available from EWTN) or with one of the many televised masses from EWTN?

ewtn.com/
ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/

Or, Go down to Florida and film one of this man’s masses:

The Mass of Vatican II
Fr, Joseph Fessio, S.J. - Founder and Provost of Ave Maria and Founder of Ignatius Press
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fessio_massv2_1_jan05.asp

I believe any of these will be provide a far better representation of the Ordo Missae 1970 than a mass from an archdiocese whose Archbishop Ordinary could be said to be in heresy.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
Trident59 said:
Yes, I have seen changes in local Masses. Some parishes are singing “some” latin. Regretfully, Haugen, Haas and Shutte are still hanging around.
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I’d like to be in a position to offer to donate $10 million to my parish, on condition that we get rid of all Oregon Catholic Press materials and switch entirely to Gregorian Chant.

I have seen no appreciable changes in the liturgy since we got B16, but give him time. He has some quite definite views on certain aspects of the modern liturgy, and I’m sure he’s spent decades laying the groundwork for reforms. Plus, don’t forget, there’s the forthcoming new English translation of the Mass that hopefully will be a step in the right direction.

I don’t think this is going to be the bench-warming pontificate all the liberals are hoping it will be. I predict that Pope Benedict will either (a) be pope for quite a long time, or (b) have a (positive) impact quite out of proportion to the length of his reign.
 
Caesar said:
The Mass should be solemn, reverant and Holy. Very few Novus Ordos are reverant, solemn or Holy.
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ALL Masses are holy. If the Sacrifice of the Lord is made present, it is holy–Heaven on Earth, no matter what garbage is going on in the background.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Right, then. But I shouldn’t be too certain of Wikipedia’s accuracy in terms of ecclesial terminology. They used the term “subordinate.” If you go to the webiste that they list as a reference, it’s listed as a suffragan diocese of M/F. I don’t think that the Bishop of R “reports to” the Archbishop of M/F.
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Which is why I didn’t challenge this point which you had made earlier, instead only substantiating the existence of a Diocese of Regensburg.
 
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