Is Pope Francis reaching out to the prodigals and are some of us feeling like the older brother?

[Fevronia]

What you are doing is twisting my words. To be perfectly honest {and I don’t mean this to be rude}, you are reminding me of a {protestant} group that comes to my school every other Tuesday and literally yells at people walking by, telling them that they are sinners and are all going to Hell. They honestly think that they are preaching love. You and I both need to do our best to fully understand each other. We may not agree, but at least we can understand.

I believe I did define my “notion” of love precisely. However, I am only human, so I do apologize if it didn’t come across clearly. The noun: God. The verb: to not abandon them. Furthermore, it means being selfless, as Bl. Pope John Paul II put it. If we do things with true love, we put God at the forefront and we die to ourselves. It’s quite simple, really. Just like we shouldn’t abandon the outsiders and push them even further away, we also shouldn’t abandon the insiders. And, honestly, if the priest gives a mushy homily, why should we judge him for that? Is a homily preaching about the realities of Hell better than a homily preaching about the realities of Heaven? Yes, if the priest is preaching errors in his homily, he should be told. In virtually every single thread I’ve seen here regarding an error spoken or done by their priest, the members here at CAF have advised them to talk to the priest about it first, then go to the pastor, then the bishop, etc. So, what about the insiders who have to listen to “mushy homilies”? If there are any errors in the homily, we should tell them what they are and why. That being said, some people respond differently to different preaching styles. If someone responds well to a homily that is harsh {yet loving and containing no error} in tone, that’s not a bad thing. Likewise, if someone responds well to a homily that is mushy {yet loving and containing no error} in tone, that is not a bad thing.

The problem with mushy homilies is that it lacks any content. It gives a experiential high but it dies away. Its useless and it encourages the person to think emotionally. That eventually leads to them even leaving the Church because they think God’s love cannot be reconciled with saying no to a gay couple.

If you want the people to be reasonable, you must emphasize reason and teach them be reasonable. If you reduce love to the emotions, you lead them to shaky grounds.

Please note that I am talking about inside the Church. Not to outsiders. To say that God is a trinity means nothing to an outsider unless they have reason to assent to Catholic teaching. So that is a different matter.

But my point is that the Church should be emphasizing its doctrine inside the Church without compromise. There should be excommunications for those who continue support abortions. Divorce should be treated for what it is without any flowering of it. Same for all the other countless issues. That cannot be compromised.

As for Hell, it should be something that gets reminded of often. Its a very real place that most people are going to go to because they will prefer darkness to light (Church teaching for 2000 years). So people have to be given that real sense of fear that they must work out their salvation and persevere. Today what you get is something completely different. Something is wrong with that message.

Other issue is fear of God. We have to stop doing the “If I was God, I wouldn’t do it that way” thinking. God is infinitely above us and he can do what he wills.

Final issue is pride. We have to realize that people inside the Church get upset when scolded because of pride. It should be shown that they can work on their humility using such occasions rather than get upset and angry over it. Parents have to be instructed on how to raise the children in a way that does not foster too much pride and builds humility.

 

[Veridical16]

**Don’t most people already leave the Church because they find those things they leave it for makes them happy? **

Almost every person who leaves the Church does so over a moral issue. They then later become atheist but that is another story.

It’s sad because the very vices, I have seen people leaving the Church for, they still find a need to seek things like the drug culture, or the constant need to escape in entertainment or decadence. It tells me that sin is a reality, and no social engineering can promise that return to the garden of Eden on Earth.

The promise of artificial happiness or some cheap concept of love, is not going to allow peace or joy to be found.

Every priest should without compromise give moral instruction and condemn faith errors in their homilies and during confession.

The only homilies from priests that I have heard that preach orthodoxy have been on the internet where they address contraceptive mentality and sodomy. They preach the opposite of what many on these threads at times are saying as how we are to conduct ourselves and know about the virtues of the faith. And I am not talking about those dissident Catholics on the left and the right.

As for Pope Francis’ approach? Remember Pope Benedict was focused on trying to help Europe and call it back. They don’t necessarily “succeed” in the sense of man’s ways. So while I do not agree with those who think these media controversies are “good things” I have the perspective of other crises have happened. Like with Arianism, when there was crises and confusion of the faith, many of the bishops embraced a false notion about the Church.

We are still where we started after Humanae Vitae, the Contraceptive mentality and the crisis in the clergy related to the enemy of the Church,

The secular victory dances about needing their sins affirmed, tells me Our Lady of Fatima’s message seems to be screaming louder. . .* "he is already too much offended. "

• in conjunction with the Divine Mercy of St. Faustina…

 

[Fevronia]

It’s sad because the very vices, I have seen people leaving the Church for, they still find a need to seek things like the drug culture, or the constant need to escape in entertainment or decadence. It tells me that sin is a reality, and no social engineering can promise that return to the garden of Eden on Earth.

The promise of artificial happiness or some cheap concept of love, is not going to allow peace or joy to be found.

The only homilies from priests that I have heard that preach orthodoxy have been on the internet where they address contraceptive mentality and sodomy. They preach the opposite of what many on these threads at times are saying as how we are to conduct ourselves and know about the virtues of the faith. And I am not talking about those dissident Catholics on the left and the right.

As for Pope Francis’ approach? Remember Pope Benedict was focused on trying to help Europe and call it back. They don’t necessarily “succeed” in the sense of man’s ways. So while I do not agree with those who think these media controversies are “good things” I have the perspective of other crises have happened. Like with Arianism, when there was crises and confusion of the faith, many of the bishops embraced a false notion about the Church.

We are still where we started after Humanae Vitae, the Contraceptive mentality and the crisis in the clergy related to the enemy of the Church,

The secular victory dances about needing their sins affirmed, tells me Our Lady of Fatima’s message seems to be screaming louder. . .* "he is already too much offended. "

• in conjunction with the Divine Mercy of St. Faustina…

Well put. The Church certainly needs our prayers and at this point, we must have faith and hope that all things will work for the good I guess.

I personally do not like the new pastoral policy and I cannot say I will use it inside of my own family.

 

[Veridical16]

The problem with mushy homilies is that it lacks any content. It gives a experiential high but it dies away. Its useless and it encourages the person to think emotionally. That eventually leads to them even leaving the Church because they think God’s love cannot be reconciled with saying no to a gay couple.

If you want the people to be reasonable, you must emphasize reason and teach them be reasonable. If you reduce love to the emotions, you lead them to shaky grounds.

Please note that I am talking about inside the Church. Not to outsiders. To say that God is a trinity means nothing to an outsider unless they have reason to assent to Catholic teaching. So that is a different matter.

But my point is that the Church should be emphasizing its doctrine inside the Church without compromise. There should be excommunications for those who continue support abortions. Divorce should be treated for what it is without any flowering of it. Same for all the other countless issues. That cannot be compromised.

As for Hell, it should be something that gets reminded of often. Its a very real place that most people are going to go to because they will prefer darkness to light (Church teaching for 2000 years). So people have to be given that real sense of fear that they must work out their salvation and persevere. Today what you get is something completely different. Something is wrong with that message.

Other issue is fear of God. We have to stop doing the “If I was God, I wouldn’t do it that way” thinking. God is infinitely above us and he can do what he wills.

Final issue is pride. We have to realize that people inside the Church get upset when scolded because of pride. It should be shown that they can work on their humility using such occasions rather than get upset and angry over it. Parents have to be instructed on how to raise the children in a way that does not foster too much pride and builds humility.

Agree. The Church of Sentimentality.

A lot of those who may come off as “dogmatic” or “doctrinaire”( which are meaningless labels to use in against others in a general way) are lay faithful who lament that the crisis is in the pews every week.

True love, is to imitate the love Christ showed, when he was moved by the crowds who were hungry. We’re spiritually starving when we’re given nothing through what you described as mushy homilies . Especially when lots of Catholics are deprived in some parishes where the emphasis of many homilies on certain weeks should be the mystery of the Eucharist which is the purpose of the Mass, and less the personality of the priest or even his duties as shepherd.

I didn’t believe in the true body until later in life. I thought we were there to hear the homily, remind us how to feel good about Jesus tied up with symbolic rituals, through pious obligation.

Now I pray for those who take the eucharist in hand so casually as I used to do. The more the Truth embraces you, the more sorrow you have for others — to have what you have been given freely. Millions in line for instance ,who’ve taken the eucharist, aren’t even aware that they are approaching the King of Kings every week.

Anyway, good discussions, take care and hold fast, Fevronia!

 

[mikecash]

After they come through the door, who is going to show the way? The priest is not the one because he doesn’t believe in correction of big things but little things according to Pope Francis. So basically you have a person who just became “Catholic” but remains whoever they were before. No?

Granted, I’m a newbie and can’t really speak on Confession. But, well, that isn’t what I took as the Holy Father’s instructions to the clergy.
"Pope Francis:

The confessor, for example, is always in danger of being either too much of a rigorist or too lax. Neither is merciful, because neither of them really takes responsibility for the person. The rigorist washes his hands so that he leaves it to the commandment. The loose minister washes his hands by simply saying, ‘This is not a sin’ or something like that.

Man knows he sins, even when he denies that “sin exists.” The nature of man remains the same, its his will that oscillates. The pagans of old, were no less disposed than the Pagans of new. The only problem is , the pagans today are without no excuse so it’s even more imperative to roll up sleeves, not throw up our hands that the culture is lost. We are defeated people that’s why we need a Savior, and when we bury Christ, the Church is exposed to how defeated humanity is.

I agree. When I sinned I never felt good about it. But, now we have the culture telling us not to feel guilty about our sins. We have militant atheists all the way to Mega Church Protestants saying, don’t worry about sin. My Evangelical Mother tells me God can’t see a Christian’s sins? I’m like, how do they come up with this stuff?

It appears the Holy Father has sat down at the table with the tax collectors and the prostitutes of our time. “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” The bottom line will be: is it followed up with, “Go and Sin No More.” If it is not, I agree with you that it won’t be fruitful at all. If it is, it will be true Christianity.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Before I begin this little piece for reflection, I just want to say that our Moderators have already made it clear that we shouldn’t presume to judge the Pope:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=764882

I wouldn’t be surprised if some recent threads got shut down . . . but that’s not for me to decide, 'nuff said. Now for my “pearls of wisdom,” for whatever they’re worth. :twocents:

I’m a morally “conservative” cradle Catholic. I have the reaction too sometimes - "The Pope said what?!" Although I’m learning to 1) fall back on the good catechesis I received as a child and continued from that time to the present, and 2) go to sources that are Catholic, not secular, for any further clarification I desire.

But here’s the thing - sometimes I have this fear. And if I look at it closely, I see myself, being a very good imitation of the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son. Sometimes I fear the rules won’t be enforced enough, won’t be enforced for someone else, etc. - when I have followed them all my life (mostly) and fought for them and helped explain them to people and all these efforts I’ve made.

And it is my realization, perhaps our Holy Father is like that father in the story Jesus told. He’s out there on the road, looking for ways to reach those prodigal sons and daughters. Am I going to feel all put out and envious and afraid? Or am I going to join in the celebration?

It’s a spiritual test for me. Maybe it is for a lot of us. In my heart of hearts, I don’t think we need to be so fearful. Easier said than done, maybe, but doable. :curtsey:

I absolutely LOVE this observation. It is exactly right as I’ve been engaging in a few threads.

It is the “parable of two brothers”. The story is about both the older and the younger. The church is full of older brothers.

We must remember that the only one left out if the Fathers house (by his own choice) was the older brother in his pride and jealousy.

Thanks!!!

 

[AndyP2010]

After they come through the door, who is going to show the way? The priest is not the one because he doesn’t believe in correction of big things but little things according to Pope Francis. So basically you have a person who just became “Catholic” but remains whoever they were before. No?

I once had a habitual sin that I was struggling with. I had other sins as well but because my conscious was immature, I was unaware of them. I went to confession weekly to deal with my habit and, as I did the Holy Spirit was able to work on conscious and, I became more aware of my sins than before and over time my confessions became more complete. All of this happened without others pointing out my faults. Since the worst of our sins are committed by the heart, who else but God can know them to point them out. Sometimes it is just the matter of getting out to God’s way and letting him do his work. No one this side of the grave has a perfectly formed conscious but the graces that one is capable to receive in the sacraments are enough and only God can read hearts.

As far as forgiving people who offend me who haven’t asked for it, I say this, I forgive them all. Because, every day I pray these words:

forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

I set that bar as low as I can least I trip and fall over it at my judgement.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I once had a habitual sin that I was struggling with. I had other sins as well but because my conscious was immature, I was unaware of them. I went to confession weekly to deal with my habit and, as I did the Holy Spirit was able to work on conscious and, I became more aware of my sins than before and over time my confessions became more complete. All of this happened without others pointing out my faults. Since the worst of our sins are committed by the heart, who else but God can know them to point them out. Sometimes it is just the matter of getting out to God’s way and letting him do his work. No one this side of the grave has a perfectly formed conscious but the graces that one is capable to receive in the sacraments are enough and only God can read hearts.

As far as forgiving people who offend me who haven’t asked for it, I say this, I forgive them all. Because, every day I pray these words:

forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

I set that bar as low as I can least I trip and fall over it at my judgement.

Yeah people forget that they commit their own mortal sins. And they still go to church.

I get that denying sinful behavior is different, but it just shows deeper discussions need to be have regarding the why of why is it sinful.

How many people on this thread are feeling like “the older brother” in the story of the prodigal son.

Only the older brother was left outside of the Father’s house (of his own accord)

Let us make sure we are not like him.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Before I begin this little piece for reflection, I just want to say that our Moderators have already made it clear that we shouldn’t presume to judge the Pope:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=764882

I wouldn’t be surprised if some recent threads got shut down . . . but that’s not for me to decide, 'nuff said. Now for my “pearls of wisdom,” for whatever they’re worth. :twocents:

I’m a morally “conservative” cradle Catholic. I have the reaction too sometimes - "The Pope said what?!" Although I’m learning to 1) fall back on the good catechesis I received as a child and continued from that time to the present, and 2) go to sources that are Catholic, not secular, for any further clarification I desire.

But here’s the thing - sometimes I have this fear. And if I look at it closely, I see myself, being a very good imitation of the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son. Sometimes I fear the rules won’t be enforced enough, won’t be enforced for someone else, etc. - when I have followed them all my life (mostly) and fought for them and helped explain them to people and all these efforts I’ve made.

And it is my realization, perhaps our Holy Father is like that father in the story Jesus told. He’s out there on the road, looking for ways to reach those prodigal sons and daughters. Am I going to feel all put out and envious and afraid? Or am I going to join in the celebration?

It’s a spiritual test for me. Maybe it is for a lot of us. In my heart of hearts, I don’t think we need to be so fearful. Easier said than done, maybe, but doable. :curtsey:

Very well said. But at the risk of sounding overly defensive (I haven’t quite reached your humility level yet), I feel I am very welcoming toward contrite sinners and genuinely love them as Christian sisters and brothers. I feel real joy when I see God has touched someone in or out of the Church. I don’t care if they’re gay or have had an abortion or whatever. I sin too. That’s why we have forgiveness. But I think you have to change - repent in humility and accept the teachings of the Church to really be a part of it.

What I have a much tougher time with is being loving and open to our progressive brethren - people who are clearly embracing values and lifestyles in opposition to the Church (many of these folks are in the pews too). I actually have more secular friends than religious; they are by no means all fans of the Catholic Church or Christianity in general. Outside of the Church, in a secular context, I am ok with it. I recognize each person’s human dignity and free will - they will find God or they won’t. Inside the Church, secular values bug me. That’s where I have trouble loving. At least the prodigal son was contrite and “on board”!

 

[KathleenGee]

I was reading threads earlier today…good insights and reflections from a variety of posters.

I was also thinking about how Pope Francis does not speak English, he knows very well what comes out of our country, America the country that promotes sexuality the most, and most graphically throughout the world. So, when reading his words through the New York Times as your first time reading them, and personally knowing people who have gone to pray at abortion centers in our city, his words can be easily misunderstood.

We have alot of open sexuality in the city I live in. And I have had several homosexual neighbors co-habitating on my street. My neighbor visibly changed from a man to a woman, although he/she changes clothes and hair styles sometimes twice in a day.

I remember the words of Christ, and how He stands at the heart of every person.

I remember speaking to an Orthodox Jewish lady and her daughter is a psychologist. In the meantime, my son has grown up here, attending Catholic junior high and coming home and devastated by headlines in our newspaper about clergy sex abuse. I think it helped him when I repeated what the psychologist said, that we can have inclinations, but it is another thing to act on them.

Christ stands in front of every person and He waits to be let in. We have to work to see Him in front of our neighbors who live differently than us, and treat them with the utmost respect and show care for them.

The pope also said those who are not Christian can go to heaven. He speaks simply and freely, and he is shaking things up. May be, I thought, he is from the Americas and does not have the same history as former popes who lived in Europe and past wars. Nevertheless, his words are affecting people, and may be to see it that it is starting to make people think and ask questions about their faith, whether they are Catholic or not.

I liked reading how Pope John Paul II described the soul, and how God has created His temple in us, how the 10 commandments are written on our souls, and so people who do not understand God or have the grace to believe in Him as we do, nevertheless, have the capacity to follow His gentle presence within them to treat their neighbor the way they would like to be treated.

I think there is great capacity of our poor working class families to come to Christ through works of mercy, for them to see Christ’s action in us to reach out and help them, and to let them know we see their lives as sacred.

When they see our sacrifice to put our interests aside and reach out to them and shelter them with Christ’s love, when they come to see we have done this in the name of Christ, and through us in Him, begin to see that their lives are sacred, then we can say that abortion is wrong and human life is sacred.

John Paul II said the world is in need of witness.

But Francis has a way of certainly unsettling all of us.

 

[Robyn_p]

But he did say

"According to St. Ignatius, great principles must be embodied in the circumstances of place, time and people. In his own way, John XXIII adopted this attitude with regard to the government of the church, when he repeated the motto, ‘See everything; turn a blind eye to much; correct a little.’ John XXIII saw all things, the maximum dimension, but he chose to correct a few, the minimum dimension."

Don’t most people already leave the Church because they find those things they leave it for makes them happy?

Almost every person who leaves the Church does so over a moral issue. They then later become atheist but that is another story.

So ok, can we agree on this much. Every priest should without compromise give moral instruction and condemn faith errors in their homilies and during confession. Can we agree on that?

How we choose to reach the outside world is honestly anyone’s guess as long as they don’t compromise how things work within the Church. The problem I have is that the Pope’s stance changes the approach within as well.

I don’t think we’re really disagreeing. We do need priests to preach against sin and error more. I thought I said that in my original post, but maybe not.

The more I think on it, the more I realize the pope seems to be following Aquinas’ approach to morality that he used in the Summa. St. Thomas doesn’t start with rules or even with sin. He starts with joy. And then he moves into the habits and virtues that make a joyful life, and THEN he gets into the rules that help us live those virtues and the sins that hinder it. That’s how the Catechism approaches it as well. Joy, (which only comes from Christ) then virtues, then commandments. Seems like a good order.

I might be going out on a limb here that perhaps Francis might be following their lead. I could be totally wrong but I just see a similar method. Maybe it’s the approach we need? Not ignoring sin, but not making it the center of the faith either. Instead making Christ and the joy He can give us center, and everything else following suit.

Anyway, like I said, I don’t disagree with you on preaching about sin. It needs to be done. But we also can’t leave out the most important part of the equation, that we have the way out. That’s what I took out of Francis’ words anyway.

 

[Starrsmother]

I was reading threads earlier today…good insights and reflections from a variety of posters.

I was also thinking about how Pope Francis does not speak English, he knows very well what comes out of our country, America the country that promotes sexuality the most, and most graphically throughout the world. So, when reading his words through the New York Times as your first time reading them, and personally knowing people who have gone to pray at abortion centers in our city, his words can be easily misunderstood.

We have alot of open sexuality in the city I live in. And I have had several homosexual neighbors co-habitating on my street. My neighbor visibly changed from a man to a woman, although he/she changes clothes and hair styles sometimes twice in a day.

I remember the words of Christ, and how He stands at the heart of every person.

I remember speaking to an Orthodox Jewish lady and her daughter is a psychologist. In the meantime, my son has grown up here, attending Catholic junior high and coming home and devastated by headlines in our newspaper about clergy sex abuse. I think it helped him when I repeated what the psychologist said, that we can have inclinations, but it is another thing to act on them.

Christ stands in front of every person and He waits to be let in. We have to work to see Him in front of our neighbors who live differently than us, and treat them with the utmost respect and show care for them.

The pope also said those who are not Christian can go to heaven. He speaks simply and freely, and he is shaking things up. May be, I thought, he is from the Americas and does not have the same history as former popes who lived in Europe and past wars. Nevertheless, his words are affecting people, and may be to see it that it is starting to make people think and ask questions about their faith, whether they are Catholic or not.

I liked reading how Pope John Paul II described the soul, and how God has created His temple in us, how the 10 commandments are written on our souls, and so people who do not understand God or have the grace to believe in Him as we do, nevertheless, have the capacity to follow His gentle presence within them to treat their neighbor the way they would like to be treated.

I think there is great capacity of our poor working class families to come to Christ through works of mercy, for them to see Christ’s action in us to reach out and help them, and to let them know we see their lives as sacred.

When they see our sacrifice to put our interests aside and reach out to them and shelter them with Christ’s love, when they come to see we have done this in the name of Christ, and through us in Him, begin to see that their lives are sacred, then we can say that abortion is wrong and human life is sacred.

John Paul II said the world is in need of witness.

But Francis has a way of certainly unsettling all of us.

I agree with you–he’s an amazing man–and in these times we need an amazing Pope! I had to laugh at your description of your neighbor! I live on a little island --30 miles long–in Alaska. We have one hospital and one psychiatrist. Our psychiatrist is a woman named Wynelle who used to be a man named Winston. After his/her/its surgery to become a 6’4" tall " woman with male pattern baldness and an adam’s apple–she decided she was a lesbian! Now run that through your mind again–yes our psychiatrist is crazier than the patients!! LOL! It’s kind of a joke here, but every kid that gets sent to her comes out of therapy thinking they are gay or that they need sex change surgery! What is even more interesting is that apparently she was raised catholic!

 

[dannyboy2277]

If conservative Catholics have been too focused on abortion and homosexuality it’s because these two issues are thrown in our face by the media and these ridiculous laws that are being passed.

I’m afraid that with comments like the pope’s, there will be good-hearted Catholics who will think it’s wrong to convert lost sheep. There are so many in this world who think that abortion and the act of homosexuality are perfectly ok. This is exactly why we need to speak boldly for the sake of these persons’ eternal souls. Too many people are more concerned about hurting someone’s feelings instead of being concerned for that person’s soul.

We are told be a light unto the world. Matthew 5:15 No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. At the end of every mass, we are told to go out and proclaim the Gospel of the Lord.

The world will try to make you think that we cannot judge. Matthew 7:1 Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. However, if you continue to read all the way to Matthew 7:1-5, you will see that we are to point out a person’s sin ONLY if we are not being a hypocrite by committing the same sin. Matthew 7:5** First get rid of the log in your own eye; THEN you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.**

When the Pharisees wanted to stone the adulteress woman, Jesus didn’t just let her on her way. He didn’t tell her that it’s ok to keep doing what she’s doing. He told her "Go and sin no more." -John 8:11 He didn’t stay silent to save her feelings. He spoke up to save her soul.

We are to call out sin; not to boast, but to convert, to save! James 5:19-20 My dear brothers and sisters, if someone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back, you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.

To love someone enough to tell them the truth about their sin is an act of compassion, as long as it is done in humility and pure love. Who among us doesn’t need to hear the truth when we have strayed off the path and become entangled in sin?

 

[Brendan_64]

But here’s the thing - sometimes I have this fear. And if I look at it closely, I see myself, being a very good imitation of the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son. Sometimes I fear the rules won’t be enforced enough, won’t be enforced for someone else, etc. - when I have followed them all my life (mostly) and fought for them and helped explain them to people and all these efforts I’ve made.

And it is my realization, perhaps our Holy Father is like that father in the story Jesus told. He’s out there on the road, looking for ways to reach those prodigal sons and daughters. Am I going to feel all put out and envious and afraid? Or am I going to join in the celebration?

I was a prodigal son for many decades and had completely turned my back on Jesus. Then, just for a moment, I let my ‘guard’ drop and, almost in an instant Jesus called me back, and welcomed me with open arms. had I been following His rules? No. Did I deserve to be welcomed back? No. Ever since then I have been amazed at what I have been given, especially since I did not deserve it.

But I think, in a way that our undeserving nature is exactly the point. There is not one of us who deserves Christ’s gift to us, not one, yet he gives it anyway. Once we go down the road of thinking, “I know none of us really deserve it, but those of us who have kept to the rules deserve it a bit more than those who haven’t kept to the rules”, we are treading a very dangerous path.

The message of Christ is Love (not about keeping rules and earning one’s reward). Can any of us say that in that moment when he was accepted back (and perhaps even from then on) the prodigal son’s love for his father was not greater than the elder son’s love for his father? Can anyone then really say that he was less deserving than his elder brother?

Maybe that is where Pope Francis is coming from? Who are we to say who loves the Lord? Who are we to say who is, or who is not, more deserving of the Lord’s gift?

 

[agnes_therese]

At least the prodigal son was contrite and “on board”!

But his father didn’t know that yet,when he ran out to meet him. He loved his son because he was his son.

 

[Petaro]

Pope Francis has been lauded by the liberal secular press as somehow lacking an emphasis on the prohibition on Abortion; Same sex marriage; and other ‘rules’ and has worried so called conservatives. It is interesting that at the same time as he emphasized the so called new vision as supported by the Liberals; he has liaised and excommunicated, this week, a priest who supported same sex marriage and women priests. He won’t be the darling of the Liberals if he continues to uphold the teachings of the Church with such ferocity as he shown in Australia. May God love and support this great Pope.

 

[eucharist04]

I think what the Pope is trying to say, is that the church needs to say what Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery," I do not condemn you, go and sin no more!"

 

[clem456]

We are called to a vocation.
In my vocation and business I have opportunities to help people of all walks of life in small ways. I have often thought this is an opportunity to talk about my faith. Sometimes it works, other times I realize this effort is more about ME than about helping someone else. I believe I know the truth, and I believe others need to believe it also. That may be true, but…
is it charitable for me, when a person

asks for bread, to give him a stone?

If someone does not “get” Catholic teaching or is antagonistic towards it, it is counterproductive for me to throw their rights and wrongs at them. It’s like throwing a stone at them, when they need some bread. The question I must keep in mind is

“What sort of bread does this person need?”
not
“What Church teaching can I throw at them?”
The time may come for me to talk about the Church’s moral teaching with someone, when God has opened their ears to it.

I pray that we have the wisdom and grace to serve people as they are, not as we would like them to be.

 

[3DOCTORS]

I don’t think anyone is saying “don’t talk about it much,” but rather, don’t use a condemning tone of voice, and don’t be all high-and-mighty. Begin by speaking about the benefits of chastity, for example, instead of the horrors of Hell. Nobody believes in Hell any more except for you and me, so unless it’s just you and me, we need to leave Hell out of it for the time being, and focus on the good.

For example, a couple of weeks ago, someone was telling me that he is thinking of having his company be open on Sundays. I didn’t say, “You are disrespecting the Lord’s Day; you will go to Hell.”

Instead I said, “Do you worry that your employees will experience burn-out? Burn-out has a serious impact on productivity, you know, and it is also a leading cause of mental health problems. I hope you are considering the mental health and family lives of your employees, because they are good people, and they will do everything to try to please you, even work on Sundays if you ask them to. It’s so important to take good care of them.”

So, he is reconsidering opening his business on Sundays. But if I had taken the approach of telling him that it’s against the Church, and that it’s a mortal sin, do you think he would have paid any attention to me?

I doubt it.

Instead, I showed him that I care about him, I care about his business, and I care about the people who work for him. I showed him concern for his interests - the good that is good for him. Which as you pointed out earlier in the thread, is what we call Love.

Gently guiding the sinner to God’s law written on all our hearts . Presenting the Christian message in a positive light. Even the younger brother had that moment of coming to his senses and realizing that the hired hands on his father’s place got a good meal to eat whereas his stomach was growling for pig fodder.

I think you’re on to something, jmcrae.

For us older brother (or sister) types, we are often legitimately frustrated by how the tidal wave of popular opinion does seem to build to the force of a tsunami and sweep over pretty much everything - people’s culture, their religious practice if they even still have one, entertainment, moral choices, and so on. And I don’t think we’re being Pharisees simply by being troubled by this.

It is a problem, and it carries such force that not only are current sinners being confirmed in their sinful ways, they are being encouraged to raise their children along the same lines. Put your teen daughter on the Pill, support your college son’s decision to move in with his boyfriend. Things like that.

And eventually the point comes when, even if you oppose such things, you’re going to be put on the spot by a relative or friend in a discussion, or with the receiving of a wedding invitation, or some such thing. That’s when it can get ugly. That’s what we fear, those of us who value orthodoxy. And the spiritual danger then is anger and resentment, and wishing to retaliate (or that God would act decisively) against these people who put us in these dilemmas.

Another way we are in spiritual danger with the younger/older brother conundrum is when we cringe over our Pope’s ways of going to a very basic form of evangelization, much like Jesus did in eating with tax collectors and sinners. We start to fear, as someone mentioned above, that it will end there, without the sinners being challenged to learning right and wrong, and repentance.

But we don’t know that that won’t follow at some point. We begin to fear that someone else is going to get away with things we ourselves can’t get away with. That they’re going to receive “cheap grace.” It’s embarrassing to admit, but that’s what we fear in some instances, and what does that say ultimately - that maybe we’d like to be able to sin freely, too? Not really a desirable thing to want.

So we need to be patient, and wait and see. And truthfully, this is what I’m telling myself too at the moment, because it’s so easy to react in the moment and not think what’s said or done now is part of a larger working of the Holy Spirit that will unfold over a period of time. (An easy mistake to make when we are bombarded with many news items every day.) Sometimes I feel uncertain, but I believe the danger inherent in clinging to an elder brother mentality is the danger of failing to examine my own heart and conscience. If I do that, I’m just reacting, without doing any soul searching.

 

[MarkInOregon]

Interesting, I had this exact same thought the other day. For me the answer is a partial yes. I know that I definitely feel ignored. When Benedict was Pope he felt like a spiritual father to me, and I dont have that at all with Francis. Of all the things he says, I think very few are aimed at me, and of the few that are, most are in the negative sense. For instance I think he would consider me one of the “Pelagians” he talks about.

So yes, I think I do feel jealous for a spiritual father figure to some extent.

Why do you feel ignored? Why do you not feel called by this Pope to reach out and be an instrument of mercy to the lost sheep? Why wouldn’t this message be aimed at you? It is aimed at all of us. We are all called to proclaim the Gospel, we are all called to do the will of the Father–it seems to me that is all Francis is doing. The Popes–all of them during my lifetime at least–speak to all of us–we must just be open and listen. We must have ears to hear.

Don’t sell yourself short–the Pope sees you as one loved by God and he is speaking to you–and not in a negative sense.

The Peace of Christ,
Mark