Is porn that bad for our society

[Robert_Sock]

I won’t say you are wrong however I can see from you’re last comment that you read and believe what current psychologists teach.Most all of the psychologists teach a sort of scientific modernism.Ask a good Catholic psychologist.You’ll get alot clearer truthful answer.EWTN had two psychologists on a few weeks ago and they were discussing how most modern psychologist are giving bad advice to their patients.Psychology has changed enormously in the last 50yrs.Im sure you are aware of that.That doesn’t mean it knows alot more.With all this modern psychiatry and psychologists out there today you would expect there to be less mental illness.However there is more mental illness today than ever.Logically we know its not working.

I agree wholeheartedly. True healing and growth comes from religion, not psychology.

No bigger crock of nonsense than self-esteem! Self-esteem is introverted and evil. Big difference between self-esteem and esteem towards life and people! People with these types of high esteem are the most well adjusted people. High esteem towards life and people lends itself to LOVE, while self-esteem leads towards narcissism and false pride.

 

[music2]

1. Can God bring about an ultimate, greater good from EVERY evil Satan has to offer? Please answer this question directly with a yes or no response!
2. If this is true, can God bring a greater good from porn, like it acting as a raw sewage pipe for hyper-sexualized behavior at the societal level? Again, please be direct with a yes or no response!

1.Yes.My guess would be yes that God could bring a greater good from porn.But this is purely my personal guess and i don’t know what the Church teaches officially so i could be wrong.

2.No.Because ultimately this isn’t a greater good.Someone is still suffering,or being exploited or making big money off it etc.Theres still women who have to be involved in the method through which the “sewage is filtered”.

My guess,and its just an “unofficial” guess,is that God could bring a greater good from your struggles,and the issues surrounding the various factors why people use pornography etc,but not in the way that you assume.
Perhaps a greater good could come about by better scientific studies around sexual issues,more discussion about sex,or more compassion etc.
The sewage pipe suggestion though sorry, can’t never be a greater good because someone is still being affected negatively.
Also,even pratically speaking,religion aside,the raw sewage solution doesnt really provide a true solution as it is not addressing the root issue of whats causing the hyper-sexual feelings.

 

[music2]

Im sorry I meant to say #110.So my previous post is still valid.Please give me their actual quotes.I don’t just take people’s interpretations of quotes.So many times in the past people interpretations were incorrect.Until i read what Thomas or Augustine actually said Im nnot going take your word for it.Im not questioning your truthfulness i just believe that maybe you were mislead into believing something that wasn’t true.Also if I had many others agree with you I might be able to be convinced.

I have a link.
The specific topic details are towards the bottom of the page under the title of “Whether the rites of unbelievers ought to be tolerated”
Also,i’m assuming its authentic but you might want to check that.
The page is:
www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/SS/SS010.html#SSQ10A3THEP1

 

[Robert_Sock]

1.Yes.My guess would be yes that God could bring a greater good from porn.But this is purely my personal guess and i don’t know what the Church teaches officially so i could be wrong.

2.No.Because ultimately this isn’t a greater good.Someone is still suffering,or being exploited or making big money off it etc.Theres still women who have to be involved in the method through which the “sewage is filtered”.

My guess,and its just an “unofficial” guess,is that God could bring a greater good from your struggles,and the issues surrounding the various factors why people use pornography etc,but not in the way that you assume.
Perhaps a greater good could come about by better scientific studies around sexual issues,more discussion about sex,or more compassion etc.
The sewage pipe suggestion though sorry, can’t never be a greater good because someone is still being affected negatively.
Also,even pratically speaking,religion aside,the raw sewage solution doesnt really provide a true solution as it is not addressing the root issue of whats causing the hyper-sexual feelings.

If God could bring a greater good from every evil, what might that greater good be in the case of porn? Why automatically assume that it’s not that it acts as a raw sewage pipe?

 

[music2]

If God could bring a greater good from every evil, what might that greater good be in the case of porn? Why automatically assume that it’s not that it acts as a raw sewage pipe?

Because its still someone else that gets harmed.For something to be a true good,it can’t produce a benefit in one area/one persons life but cause destruction in anothers life.
Also,keeping in mind that people are getting “loaded”(financially) from producing porn.Sometimes even the mafia…
They all don’t care about your situation,they don’t care about the girls,they just have self-interest.

 

[stevekehl]

If I can paraphrase C.S. Lewis here. What would you conclude about a society where people paid to go into theaters to see plates of food exposed, but not eaten. Would you think the people were hungry or crazy.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Because its still someone else that gets harmed.For something to be a true good,it can’t produce a benefit in one area/one persons life but cause destruction in anothers life.
Also,keeping in mind that people are getting “loaded”(financially) from producing porn.Sometimes even the mafia…
They all don’t care about your situation,they don’t care about the girls,they just have self-interest.

You fail to answer half of my questions. Namely, if God could bring a greater good from every evil, what might that greater good be in the case of porn?

 

[music2]

You fail to answer half of my questions. Namely, if God could bring a greater good from every evil, what might that greater good be in the case of porn?

Oh,sorry.
Its just my thought,so you’d have to first speak to priests regarding whether it is in line with Catholic doctrine etc,but my thoughts are that perhaps it could bring about a greater discussion and awareness regarding sexual problems,pathophysiology and studies into how we can fix these problems.
Currently its sort of an issue that isn’t addressed.
If people use porn,then most Catholics look at it purely from a moral/sin perspective and there isn’t much aware regarding that there might be a ‘grey area’.
IE:while some might use porn form purely immoral/selfish reason and then they are directed to get confession.
There are others,that are using it due to hyper-sexual feelings etc,so people just saying “it is a sin” and confess it,or take your mind off it and do some work etc,doesn’t really solve their problem and might sometimes even make then feel worse.
So their left without any solution or people’s understanding.They might be left feeling they are sexually repressed-trying to ‘control’ it,suppress it etc and thats not healthy like you mentioned.

It’s in the same way that we shouldn’t assume that every overweight person is a glutton.

Technically the good wouldn’t be from pornography,per se,but rather the discussion etc sourrounding all the sex topics.
Pornography,as an “entity” is a “bad”,in the same way as pedophilia etc is a “bad” too.
There is no good to it.Eg:Even if a porno company donated heaps of money to the Catholic Church,or Childrens Charity etc,on the surface that might seem as a “good” but it really isn’t & i’m pretty sure that the Church wouldn’t acccept the money but someone more knowledgable might be able to say for sure as i’m not a learnt Catholic.

If your from the US,could these places help any?These ones seem reputable.Alot others arn’t…

hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/specialty_areas/sexual_behaviors/conditions.html
smsna.org/contact/contact.asp

So the “good” might be a better understanding of human emotions and sexuality.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Oh,sorry.
Its just my thought,so you’d have to first speak to priests regarding whether it is in line with Catholic doctrine etc,but my thoughts are that perhaps it could bring about a greater discussion and awareness regarding sexual problems,pathophysiology and studies into how we can fix these problems.
Currently its sort of an issue that isn’t addressed.
If people use porn,then most Catholics look at it purely from a moral/sin perspective and there isn’t much aware regarding that there might be a ‘grey area’.
IE:while some might use porn form purely immoral/selfish reason and then they are directed to get confession.
There are others,that are using it due to hyper-sexual feelings etc,so people just saying “it is a sin” and confess it,or take your mind off it and do some work etc,doesn’t really solve their problem and might sometimes even make then feel worse.
So their left without any solution or people’s understanding.They might be left feeling they are sexually repressed-trying to ‘control’ it,suppress it etc and thats not healthy like you mentioned.

It’s in the same way that we shouldn’t assume that every overweight person is a glutton.

Technically the good wouldn’t be from pornography,per se,but rather the discussion etc sourrounding all the sex topics.
Pornography,as an “entity” is a “bad”,in the same way as pedophilia etc is a “bad” too.
There is no good to it.Eg:Even if a porno company donated heaps of money to the Catholic Church,or Childrens Charity etc,on the surface that might seem as a “good” but it really isn’t & i’m pretty sure that the Church wouldn’t acccept the money but someone more knowledgable might be able to say for sure as i’m not a learnt Catholic.

If your from the US,could these places help any?These ones seem reputable.Alot others arn’t…

hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/specialty_areas/sexual_behaviors/conditions.html
smsna.org/contact/contact.asp

So the “good” might be a better understanding of human emotions and sexuality.

Why not say that porn can act as a raw sewage pipe for unwanted sexual drives that are hyper-sexual in nature?

 

[valentino]

Oh,sorry.
Its just my thought,so you’d have to first speak to priests regarding whether it is in line with Catholic doctrine etc,but my thoughts are that perhaps it could bring about a greater discussion and awareness regarding sexual problems,pathophysiology and studies into how we can fix these problems.
Currently its sort of an issue that isn’t addressed.
If people use porn,then most Catholics look at it purely from a moral/sin perspective and there isn’t much aware regarding that there might be a ‘grey area’.
IE:while some might use porn form purely immoral/selfish reason and then they are directed to get confession.
There are others,that are using it due to hyper-sexual feelings etc,so people just saying “it is a sin” and confess it,or take your mind off it and do some work etc,doesn’t really solve their problem and might sometimes even make then feel worse.
So their left without any solution or people’s understanding.They might be left feeling they are sexually repressed-trying to ‘control’ it,suppress it etc and thats not healthy like you mentioned.

It’s in the same way that we shouldn’t assume that every overweight person is a glutton.

Technically the good wouldn’t be from pornography,per se,but rather the discussion etc sourrounding all the sex topics.
Pornography,as an “entity” is a “bad”,in the same way as pedophilia etc is a “bad” too.
There is no good to it.Eg:Even if a porno company donated heaps of money to the Catholic Church,or Childrens Charity etc,on the surface that might seem as a “good” but it really isn’t & i’m pretty sure that the Church wouldn’t acccept the money but someone more knowledgable might be able to say for sure as i’m not a learnt Catholic.

If your from the US,could these places help any?These ones seem reputable.Alot others arn’t…

hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/specialty_areas/sexual_behaviors/conditions.html
smsna.org/contact/contact.asp

So the “good” might be a better understanding of human emotions and sexuality.

People who have become hyper sexual is a different matter.In this case porn has to be looked at differently.I would say that porn is the better alternative than rape.Maybe this person has to weaned off porn.Its still sinful but I admit some people are in difficult situations.i would say that he should keep striving and praying for God to release him from this.God always forgives us even if we continue to fail.Just keep believing in God and His mercy.Eventually with God’s help any addiction can be overcome.

 

[music2]

Why not say that porn can act as a raw sewage pipe for unwanted sexual drives that are hyper-sexual in nature?

Functionally i guess you could say it could.Morally though it can’t.
Something helping something might work on a functional/physical level temporary,but we cant never call it a good thing.
People,in essence making prostitutes of themselves,we can’t in anyway really say this is a good or Godly thing.
Even if in the odd instance that the woman became a prostitute with good intentions-ie:thinking she could “altruistically” provide a “raw sewage pipe service” for men with hypersexual disorders,she would still be misguided in her thinking and acting off false misguided feelings and sentimentality.

Women should all be treated with respect,and some have suggested (keep in mind that i cant verify if this is true or not or if its universal,it’s just what some have suggested) that when some men watch porn,it causes them to have a different view regarding women and sees them more as a function/sexobject which is different from seeing women as humans with feelings,intelligence,and as friends to respect etc.

Ultimately
1.how can you explain regarding the women involved in the industry,or the industry itself with its money making etc?

2.Using porn this way,doesn’t change your views regarding sex and it doesnt solve your hypersexuality.It might temporarily “unload” it (For lack of better words) and provide you with termporary relief,but wouldn’t you still be kept in that cycle of hypersexual feelings then use pornography to relieve it then the cycle again & again?

3.If your married,it is obviously bad for your marriage and involves deception,lies etc.

4.If there is other ways that can solve the problem ethically/morally-eg:medical means and therapy,why wouldn’t anyone want to use them?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Functionally i guess you could say it could.Morally though it can’t.
Something helping something might work on a functional/physical level temporary,but we cant never call it a good thing.
People,in essence making prostitutes of themselves,we can’t in anyway really say this is a good or Godly thing.
Even if in the odd instance that the woman became a prostitute with good intentions-ie:thinking she could “altruistically” provide a “raw sewage pipe service” for men with hypersexual disorders,she would still be misguided in her thinking and acting off false misguided feelings and sentimentality.

Women should all be treated with respect,and some have suggested (keep in mind that i cant verify if this is true or not or if its universal,it’s just what some have suggested) that when some men watch porn,it causes them to have a different view regarding women and sees them more as a function/sexobject which is different from seeing women as humans with feelings,intelligence,and as friends to respect etc.

Ultimately
1.how can you explain regarding the women involved in the industry,or the industry itself with its money making etc?

2.Using porn this way,doesn’t change your views regarding sex and it doesnt solve your hypersexuality.It might temporarily “unload” it (For lack of better words) and provide you with termporary relief,but wouldn’t you still be kept in that cycle of hypersexual feelings then use pornography to relieve it then the cycle again & again?

3.If your married,it is obviously bad for your marriage and involves deception,lies etc.

4.If there is other ways that can solve the problem ethically/morally-eg:medical means and therapy,why wouldn’t anyone want to use them?

As I stated before, porn is evil! However, to the degree we believe that God can bring good out of any evil Satan has to offer, we trust that God will bring about a greater good from porn. All I’m speculating on is that the good that God brings from this evil has to do with it acting as a raw sewage pipe for hyper-sexuality in society in general.

 

[music2]

As I stated before, porn is evil! However, to the degree we believe that God can bring good out of any evil Satan has to offer, we trust that God will bring about a greater good from porn. All I’m speculating on is that the good that God brings from this evil has to do with it acting as a raw sewage pipe for hyper-sexuality in society in general.

Are you mad or am i misreading it?Sorry if i said something that made you mad.I didn’t mean that.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Are you mad or am i misreading it?Sorry if i said something that made you mad.I didn’t mean that.

Not mad, just trying to drive home the point.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Let this end!!!

 

[joshrp]

I really don’t think God makes good out of pornography by using it as a “raw sewage pipe”. God brings good out of every situation, He doesn’t make evil good and good evil. God cannot do absurd and irrational things, and He doesn’t waste His effort doing so. Porn is evil, and the use of it is evil, and the effects of it are evil. From the situation where a person is addicted to pornography and is slave to their passions, God can bring the person to the realization that he is dependent on Him [God] to overcome his own [the person’s] addictions and lusts and must pray and ask for forgiveness and the strenght to do so. If someone is addicted to porn, they must admit that they have an addiction and admit that they can’t overcome this lustful addiction on their own. They need God, and they need other human beings who will hold them accountable and show compassion in their weakness by encouraging them when they are struggling to remain chaste. In this way, when a person realizes they need others and they need better activities and patterns of thinking and behavior to occupy them, this is how God brings good out of a situation which is imbued with evil forces. God does not turn porn into good. God does not turn evil into good. This does not limit His omnipotence. Your argument that someone who says God can’t turn the evil of pornography into good is denying God’s omnipotence is like saying that because God can’t make 2+2=5 then He is not omnipotent. God does not do absurd things.

I hope this helps. And if anyone is addicted to pornography, there are support groups like Sexaholics Anonymous www.sa.org which can help. I’ve had an addiction to pornography since high school, and God does not make porn good in any way. He responds to it with good, and gives me the grace to make good out of it, but if I were to just wallow in a “raw sewage pipe”, God isn’t going to force me to get out. If you are using pornography and trying to justify it with these arguments, I suggest you focus on Christ, and look for a sex addicts support group. I’m thinking of contacting that sa.org myself. I’ve been away from pornography for at least a month, but occasionally I have lustful thoughts. Go to confession often. There were many months straight where I kept going to confession for the same thing, porn and masturbation, every single week. I know what the temptations are like. They just don’t go away. But seriously, the only way I’ve gotten out of that cycle is by focusing on Christ, and doing everything for Him, and if you do anything to offend Him or make Him sad, go right back to Him telling Him you are sorry and resolve to never do it again with a contrite heart. And He knows we are weak, so maybe you do it again. I know what it is like to be weak in the face of temptations when they just don’t seem like they will ever go away and they keep coming back when you think you have overcome them. But you’ve got to resolve to be chaste. And if you fall, just focus back in on Jesus Christ and beg Him for the grace to be true to your resolution.

I don’t know if you yourself are using pornography and masturbating and are trying to justify it, but this is my advice for anyone who struggles with these powerful and debilitating addictions, because I struggle with it too.

God bless you all,
Joshua

 

[yosupman]

Not mad, just trying to drive home the point.

Bob,

You need to get a life. I happened to get an email showing an entry to this thread. For some reason I hadn’t received these for a month. My gosh man! You are completely wrong that St. Thomas and St. Augustine approved of, or championed legalized prostitution. You can’t show one authentic quote. I happen to have the entire summa in hard copy.

I’ll show you one misquote…you know Bob, it’s said the Lords angels watch over you, why don’t you jump off this parapet, they’ll save you, then you’ll be famous.

Ever heard that misquote before?

It’s just like your raw sewage piece of junk argument.

 

[Robert_Sock]

God does not turn evil into good.

Again, porn is always evil. I’m not claiming that God changes evil into good, but that God can bring about a greater good from every evil Satan has to offer.

 

[yosupman]

Again, porn is always evil. I’m not claiming that God changes evil into good, but that God can bring about a greater good from every evil Satan has to offer.

Bob, do you support legalized prostitution? Is prostitution a good thing? what about underage sex? Sounds fun right?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Bob, do you support legalized prostitution? Is prostitution a good thing? what about underage sex? Sounds fun right?

I do not support any sort of evil, but again, I contend that God can bring about a greater good from any evil Satan has to offer.