Is Predestinarianism a heresy?

[bavarskas]

The Catholic encyclopedia (at NewAdvent.org) says that it is.

I also read that Saint Augustine’s idea of predestination rests on the assertion that God has foreordained, from eternity, those who will be saved. The number of the elect is fixed.

Comments.

GOD Bless,
John

 

[SyCarl]

Augustine wrote quite a bit on predestination. One such is:

These are the great works of the Lord, sought out according to all His pleasure, and so wisely sought out, that when the intelligent creation, both angelic and human, sinned, doing not His will but their own, He used the very will of the creature which was working in opposition to the Creator’s will as an instrument for carrying out His will, the supremely Good thus turning to good account even what is evil, to the condemnation of those whom in His justice He has predestined to punishment, and to the salvation of those whom in His mercy He has predestined to grace. .-Augustine (The Enchiridion, Chapter 100)
newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The Catholic encyclopedia (at NewAdvent.org) says that it is.

I also read that Saint Augustine’s idea of predestination rests on the assertion that God has foreordained, from eternity, those who will be saved. The number of the elect is fixed.

Comments.

GOD Bless,
John

Predestination is a Biblical and Catholic teaching, it rests on the fact God is in control and there are no surprises in His plans.

From what I understand, Presetinarianism is basically fatalism where our actions play no role in where we end up. It essentially makes God the author of sin as well and leads to presumptuous conclusions. It has no place in Christianity.

The Catholic Church teaches that God’s plan includes our free response, how this works together with Predestination is a mystery we cannot fully know, just like with other mysteries of the Faith like the Divine and human natures of Jesus coming together but neither of them being mixed, diminished or confused (Hypostatic Union). Another thing to consider is that God is not limited to time as humans are, He is “outside” of time so to speak, and thus free will and predestination are not “mutually exclusive” as they are from our human time line perspective.

 

[bavarskas]

Predestination is a Biblical and Catholic teaching, it rests on the fact God is in control and there are no surprises in His plans.

From what I understand, Presetinarianism is basically fatalism where our actions play no role in where we end up. It essentially makes God the author of sin as well and leads to presumptuous conclusions. It has no place in Christianity.

The Catholic Church teaches that God’s plan includes our free response, how this works together with Predestination is a mystery we cannot fully know, just like with other mysteries of the Faith like the Divine and human natures of Jesus coming together but neither of them being mixed, diminished or confused (Hypostatic Union). Another thing to consider is that God is not limited to time as humans are, He is “outside” of time so to speak, and thus free will and predestination are not “mutually exclusive” as they are from our human time line perspective.

 

[bavarskas]

Thanks to both for your comments!

Catholic Dude, where in Catholic teaching can I find

“The Catholic Church teaches that God’s plan includes our free response,”

 

[bavarskas]

The Catholic Church teaches that God’s plan includes our free response,

 

[bavarskas]

Thanks to all for your comments.

Catholic Dude. You mentioned that;

“The Catholic Church teaches that God’s plan includes our free response,”

Were can I find this teaching? Is it written anywhere?

Thanks,
John

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Thanks to all for your comments.

Catholic Dude. You mentioned that;

“The Catholic Church teaches that God’s plan includes our free response,”

Were can I find this teaching? Is it written anywhere?

Thanks,
John

The Council of Trent infallibly condemned the heretical idea that free will was either a fiction or destroyed. The quote that really comes to mind for this issue is from the Catechism: 600** To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace**: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396
(source)

 

[thistle]

The Catholic encyclopedia (at NewAdvent.org) says that it is.

I also read that Saint Augustine’s idea of predestination rests on the assertion that God has foreordained, from eternity, those who will be saved. The number of the elect is fixed.

Comments.

GOD Bless,
John

But that cannot correct. If the number to be saved is predestined that would mean those condemned to Hell is also predestined. However the Church clearly teaches that nobody is predestined to Hell.

 

[SyCarl]

It is also interesting to look at what Aquinas had to say about predestinated.

I answer that, It is fitting that God should predestine men. For all things are subject to His providence, as was shown above (22, 2). Now it belongs to providence to direct things towards their end, as was also said (22, 1, 2). The end towards which created things are directed by God is twofold; one which exceeds all proportion and faculty of created nature; and this end is life eternal, that consists in seeing God which is above the nature of every creature, as shown above (12, 4). The other end, however, is proportionate to created nature, to which end created being can attain according to the power of its nature. Now if a thing cannot attain to something by the power of its nature, it must be directed thereto by another; thus, an arrow is directed by the archer towards a mark. Hence, properly speaking, a rational creature, capable of eternal life, is led towards it, directed, as it were, by God. The reason of that direction pre-exists in God; as in Him is the type of the order of all things towards an end, which we proved above to be providence. Now the type in the mind of the doer of something to be done, is a kind of pre-existence in him of the thing to be done. Hence the type of the aforesaid direction of a rational creature towards the end of life eternal is called predestination. For to destine, is to direct or send. Thus it is clear that predestination, as regards its objects, is a part of providence
(Summa Theologica Part 1, Question 23, Article 1)

I answer that, God does reprobate some. For it was said above (1) that predestination is a part of providence. To providence, however, it belongs to permit certain defects in those things which are subject to providence, as was said above (22, 2). Thus, as men are ordained to eternal life through the providence of God, it likewise is part of that providence to permit some to fall away from that end; this is called reprobation. Thus, as predestination is a part of providence, in regard to those ordained to eternal salvation, so reprobation is a part of providence in regard to those who turn aside from that end. Hence reprobation implies not only foreknowledge, but also something more, as does providence, as was said above (22, 1). Therefore, as predestination includes the will to confer grace and glory; so also reprobation includes the will to permit a person to fall into sin, and to impose the punishment of damnation on account of that sin.
(Summa Theologica, Part 1, Question 23, Article 3)

I answer that, Predestination presupposes election in the order of reason; and election presupposes love. The reason of this is that predestination, as stated above (1), is a part of providence. Now providence, as also prudence, is the plan existing in the intellect directing the ordering of some things towards an end; as was proved above (22, 2). But nothing is directed towards an end unless the will for that end already exists. Whence the predestination of some to eternal salvation presupposes, in the order of reason, that God wills their salvation; and to this belong both election and love:–love, inasmuch as He wills them this particular good of eternal salvation; since to love is to wish well to anyone, as stated above (20, 2, 3):–election, inasmuch as He wills this good to some in preference to others; since He reprobates some, as stated above (3). Election and love, however, are differently ordered in God, and in ourselves: because in us the will in loving does not cause good, but we are incited to love by the good which already exists; and therefore we choose someone to love, and so election in us precedes love. In God, however, it is the reverse. For His will, by which in loving He wishes good to someone, is the cause of that good possessed by some in preference to others. Thus it is clear that love precedes election in the order of reason, and election precedes predestination. Whence all the predestinate are objects of election and love.
(Summa Theologica, Part 1, Question 23, Article 4)

newadvent.org/summa/1023.htm#5

continued

 

[SyCarl]

I answer that, The number of the predestined is certain. Some have said that it was formally, but not materially certain; as if we were to say that it was certain that a hundred or a thousand would be saved; not however these or those individuals. But this destroys the certainty of predestination; of which we spoke above (6). Therefore we must say that to God the number of the predestined is certain, not only formally, but also materially. It must, however, be observed that the number of the predestined is said to be certain to God, not by reason of His knowledge, because, that is to say, He knows how many will be saved (for in this way the number of drops of rain and the sands of the sea are certain to God); but by reason of His deliberate choice and determination. For the further evidence of which we must remember that every agent intends to make something finite, as is clear from what has been said above when we treated of the infinite (7, 2, 3). Now whosoever intends some definite measure in his effect thinks out some definite number in the essential parts, which are by their very nature required for the perfection of the whole. For of those things which are required not principally, but only on account of something else, he does not select any definite number “per se”; but he accepts and uses them in such numbers as are necessary on account of that other thing. For instance, a builder thinks out the definite measurements of a house, and also the definite number of rooms which he wishes to make in the house; and definite measurements of the walls and roof; he does not, however, select a definite number of stones, but accepts and uses just so many as are sufficient for the required measurements of the wall. So also must we consider concerning God in regard to the whole universe, which is His effect. For He pre-ordained the measurements of the whole of the universe, and what number would befit the essential parts of that universe–that is to say, which have in some way been ordained in perpetuity; how many spheres, how many stars, how many elements, and how many species. Individuals, however, which undergo corruption, are not ordained as it were chiefly for the good of the universe, but in a secondary way, inasmuch as the good of the species is preserved through them. Whence, although God knows the total number of individuals, the number of oxen, flies and such like, is not pre-ordained by God “per se”; but divine providence produces just so many as are sufficient for the preservation of the species. Now of all creatures the rational creature is chiefly ordained for the good of the universe, being as such incorruptible; more especially those who attain to eternal happiness, since they more immediately reach the ultimate end. Whence the number of the predestined is certain to God; not only by way of knowledge, but also by way of a principal pre-ordination.
(Summa Theologica, Part 1, Question 23, Article 7)

newadvent.org/summa/1023.htm#5

 

[Catholic_Dude]

But that cannot correct. If the number to be saved is predestined that would mean those condemned to Hell is also predestined. However the Church clearly teaches that nobody is predestined to Hell.

God ultimately knows who will be in Heaven and who will be in Hell, thus Predestination certainly plays into this equation and in a very real sense the number is “fixed” in that God knows this or that person will be either in Heaven or Hell.

What the Church condemns regarding “double predestination” (that some are predestined to hell) is that a person is sent to eternal punishment for something they didnt do nor deserve. Predestinarianism rests on the heretical idea that God predestines to both heaven and hell without regard for the individuals actions.

 

[j1s2a3]

No man can make any promise that deals with anagogythis heresy of highest order.