Is pretending to be a good Catholic the same as lying?

[BellsMom]

For instance, going to mass and taking part in prayer when you don’t really believe any of it but letting people believe you do…

Or being asked if you believe this or that that the Church or bible teaches and not being honest when answering (lie of omission?)…

In other words, is it a lie to let others believe something about you that you know is untrue but do nothing to correct their assumptions?

It feels like lying to me.

 

[PRmerger]

For instance, going to mass and taking part in prayer when you don’t really believe any of it but letting people believe you do…

Or being asked if you believe this or that that the Church or bible teaches and not being honest when answering (lie of omission?)…

In other words, is it a lie to let others believe something about you that you know is untrue but do nothing to correct their assumptions?

It feels like lying to me.

It is lying.

I’m not sure why this is even a question?

 

[BellsMom]

I’m just thinking of all the advice to non-Catholics in mixed marriages with kids where they’re told to just “fake it” so the kids don’t realize that Mom or Dad are really protestants or atheists or agnostics.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m just thinking of all the advice to non-Catholics in mixed marriages with kids where they’re told to just “fake it” so the kids don’t realize that Mom or Dad are really protestants or atheists or agnostics.

Oh.

“So the kids don’t realize that Mom or Dad are really Protestants or atheists or agnostics”.

That’s funny.

 

[Scottgun]

I’m just thinking of all the advice to non-Catholics in mixed marriages with kids where they’re told to just “fake it” so the kids don’t realize that Mom or Dad are really protestants or atheists or agnostics.

Who gives advice to fake it?

 

[BellsMom]

I’ve read it here when a Catholic spouse is relating problems with a non-Catholic spouse and making sure the kids are raised Catholic. For instance, non catholic doesn’t want to go to mass with the family. Often I read people say the spouse should just ask the other to come to mass and fake it.

Or when a child asks about someones beliefs, that Mom or Dad or other relative aren’t supposed to say, “No I don’t believe in god” or “No, I don’t believe what the Catholic church teaches. That’s why I’m a (fill in the blank).”

 

[PRmerger]

I’ve read it here when a Catholic spouse is relating problems with a non-Catholic spouse and making sure the kids are raised Catholic. For instance, non catholic doesn’t want to go to mass with the family. Often I read people say the spouse should just ask the other to come to mass and fake it.

Why can’t they go to Mass, participate in a polite manner? That is: stand when everyone stands, kneel when everyone kneels. No scowling. No arms crossed. That kind of thing.

Why must there be any “faking”?

I don’t understand.

Or when a child asks about someones beliefs, that Mom or Dad or other relative aren’t supposed to say, “No I don’t believe in god” or “No, I don’t believe what the Catholic church teaches. That’s why I’m a (fill in the blank).”

That’s just lying.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I’ve read it here when a Catholic spouse is relating problems with a non-Catholic spouse and making sure the kids are raised Catholic. For instance, non catholic doesn’t want to go to mass with the family. Often I read people say the spouse should just ask the other to come to mass and fake it.

Or when a child asks about someones beliefs, that Mom or Dad or other relative aren’t supposed to say, “No I don’t believe in god” or “No, I don’t believe what the Catholic church teaches. That’s why I’m a (fill in the blank).”

Who’s god? In English, God is a proper noun, should be capitalised.

 

[1ke]

I’ve read it here when a Catholic spouse is relating problems with a non-Catholic spouse and making sure the kids are raised Catholic. For instance, non catholic doesn’t want to go to mass with the family. Often I read people say the spouse should just ask the other to come to mass and fake it.

Or when a child asks about someones beliefs, that Mom or Dad or other relative aren’t supposed to say, “No I don’t believe in god” or “No, I don’t believe what the Catholic church teaches. That’s why I’m a (fill in the blank).”

I’ve been participating on CAF for 12 years and I’ve never seen anyone tell people to lie.

 

[pianistclare]

Me either.

 

[St_Francis]

I have never seen that advised, here or elsewhere, wrt Catholicism.

 

[Scottgun]

Why can’t they go to Mass, participate in a polite manner? That is: stand when everyone stands, kneel when everyone kneels. No scowling. No arms crossed. That kind of thing.

Why must there be any “faking”?
.

Exactly. Ours is an exoteric worship, not esoteric. That means anyone is invited to attend, merely observe, or to even participate in much of it without any official assumptions being made. There’s only really a problem if a non-Catholic goes up to receive Communion. That is a deception by deed because there is a presumption that one is in full communion with what the Church proclaims.

 

[Irishmom2]

For instance, going to mass and taking part in prayer when you don’t really believe any of it but letting people believe you do…

Or being asked if you believe this or that that the Church or bible teaches and not being honest when answering (lie of omission?)…

In other words, is it a lie to let others believe something about you that you know is untrue but do nothing to correct their assumptions?

It feels like lying to me.

Bell(name removed by moderator), if you are going to church with your family because your husband is raising your children Catholic and you are not Catholic, for instance, why do you assume they think you believe any of it? I am guessing they see that you do not go to communion.

If, by others, you are asking if you should be able to tell your children that what their dad believes is untrue, then no. He has an obligation to raise his children Catholic.

Who would be asking if you believe this or that? Children?

 

[MaryT777]

I’ve been participating on CAF for 12 years and I’ve never seen anyone tell people to lie.

I have never seen any such post ever in my time here.

Mary.

 

[CRATUS]

Why go through all that effort for an image?

 

[BellsMom]

Why go through all that effort for an image?

Yes this is what I think too. Honesty would be best. Not my kids btw, someone elses.

As for not using proper capitalization, sorry no offense intended.

 

[Rau]

I’ve been participating on CAF for 12 years and I’ve never seen anyone tell people to lie.

In the context the OP raised it, I’ve never seen that kind of advice either. And rarely have I seen a non- catholic parent attend regular mass, unless of course they are considering their own faith options. I very much doubt that the catholic parent (in general) would expect such behaviour of the non-Catholic parent.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I’ve read it here when a Catholic spouse is relating problems with a non-Catholic spouse and making sure the kids are raised Catholic. For instance, non catholic doesn’t want to go to mass with the family. Often I read people say the spouse should just ask the other to come to mass and fake it.

Or when a child asks about someones beliefs, that Mom or Dad or other relative aren’t supposed to say, “No I don’t believe in god” or “No, I don’t believe what the Catholic church teaches. That’s why I’m a (fill in the blank).”

My mother is Catholic and my father is not. We were raised Catholic, but always knew my dad was not Catholic. I’m not sure what gave you the impression that Catholics expect people to lie to kids, but perhaps I can add some context.

1. It is generally recommended that the non-Catholic spouse go to Mass (at least often), but to show solidarity with the family rather than to try to pretend to be Catholic. My dad generally came with us, helped keep us in line, and socialized after. But it was no secret that he wasn’t Catholic.
2. If the non-Catholic spouse is, according to their beliefs, opposed to the very idea of attending Mass even as an observer, then they of course have to act accordingly. But if it’s a matter of just not particularly wanting to go, then I might suggest going anyway most of the time, in part just to be there for an important family event (of course, Catholics believe that the Mass is much more than that, but a non-Catholic should see that it is at least that); and also to show that while they disagree, they are at least ok with Catholicism and the Mass and such.
3. As for answering questions, if they’re not your kids, I’d suggest just saying that you’re not Catholic, but that they should discuss such things with their parents, and leave it at that.

(For parents of different faiths, answering their kids’ questions is somewhat more complicated an issue, but even (especially) then, the parents shouldn’t lie.)

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I get it. Her children are going through the “apparent fundamentalist phase” ) and you are wondering if you should agree with them.

They need to calm down and develop a deeper view of people and gratitude for life.

Out of love for her husband and children and what means so much to them, she has so devotedly and for so long accompanied them in all this.

Protestants and agnostics aren’t per se hypocrites, despite what you read here.

It is an exceedingly precious thing when a Protestant or an agnostic honours others’ Catholic faith to such a high degree - precious for her, precious for us all.

That makes it an exceedingly precious gift to them - the model of a deep thinking agnostic or Protestant. Which belies the dirty propaganda that her husband’s (their father’s) “friends” perhaps want to pull over on them.

I also was unutterably privileged to have a multi-perspectival upbringing and life (with minor variations).

This is an exceedingly precious plus-plus-plus for every single one of them and all around.

The one crucial point is the one point you don’t mention - is she attempting to engage in irregular “communion”?

It is most blessed to sit it out and make a “spiritual Communion”, something we don’t hear about enough.

As for answering Bible questions, she believes it enough to say she believes it. Is this a formal discernment process to enter the Church in which case she needs to take time (perhaps beyond the regulation 8 months) and discuss it in detail which is not at all the shame it is made out to be.

There is rather a lot at church and in church groups that she may participate actively in as it is. Many Protestants do, at Catholic parishes in the UK, and agnostic spouses.

We can’t make assumptions as to what others’ beliefs are.

In a prevailing atmosphere of so many Catholics not thinking through their beliefs anyway, no wonder she may be confused as to what “belief” is. She sounds exceedingly willing and sincere to me.

Belief is assent to degrees of inference (J H Newman). She sounds well advanced in her degrees of inference to me.

 

[PRmerger]

I get it. Her children are going through the “apparent fundamentalist phase” ) and you are wondering if you should agree with them.

They need to calm down and develop a deeper view of people and gratitude for life.

Out of love for her husband and children and what means so much to them, she has so devotedly and for so long accompanied them in all this.

Protestants and agnostics aren’t per se hypocrites, despite what you read here.

It is an exceedingly precious thing when a Protestant or an agnostic honours others’ Catholic faith to such a high degree - precious for her, precious for us all.

That makes it an exceedingly precious gift to them - the model of a deep thinking agnostic or Protestant. Which belies the dirty propaganda that her husband’s (their father’s) “friends” perhaps want to pull over on them.

I also was unutterably privileged to have a multi-perspectival upbringing and life (with minor variations).

This is an exceedingly precious plus-plus-plus for every single one of them and all around.

The one crucial point is the one point you don’t mention - is she attempting to engage in irregular “communion”?

It is most blessed to sit it out and make a “spiritual Communion”, something we don’t hear about enough.

As for answering Bible questions, she believes it enough to say she believes it. Is this a formal discernment process to enter the Church in which case she needs to take time (perhaps beyond the regulation 8 months) and discuss it in detail which is not at all the shame it is made out to be.

There is rather a lot at church and in church groups that she may participate actively in as it is. Many Protestants do, at Catholic parishes in the UK, and agnostic spouses.

We can’t make assumptions as to what others’ beliefs are.

In a prevailing atmosphere of so many Catholics not thinking through their beliefs anyway, no wonder she may be confused as to what “belief” is. She sounds exceedingly willing and sincere to me.

Belief is assent to degrees of inference (J H Newman). She sounds well advanced in her degrees of inference to me.

This ^^ is what all of us have been advocating.

Not doing what the OP suggested.

For that is, of course, lying.