Is Protestantism REALLY a heresy?!?

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smelton:
I understand what you are saying. Let me ask you this. Without the church would you still be Christian?
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Which church you talking about? Catholic or Protestant?
 
Just like the teachings on Purgatory!

I heard on Daily Mass on EWTN that Purgatory was longed believed by Catholics, Orthodox and even Jews! It wasn’t until the Reformation it was rejected by the Reformers, doesn’t that kind of tell you something there?
 
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JKirkLVNV:
We, too, believe that we are the body of Christ and that our faith is founded on His death and resurection. We also believe that he intended to found a church or what he said to Peter in Matthew has to be discounted. To leave our faith would be to leave the Faith, the Church, the Family, that Christ gave us. It would be to say that what Christ clearly gave us isn’t enough, I need something else as well. You’re a protestant. If one demonination doesn’t suit you, you can go elsewhere. To us, the Church, as Jesus sees the Church (impeccable, faultless, His Spotless Bride), is inseperable from Jesus Himself. We believe that it is His Will that it be such. Obviously, the Church has and has had sinful adherents (from the top down), but it is still the Church that He founded. Read what the Fathers in the Patristic period believed (these were the disciples of the Apostles). It is indistinguishable from the teachings of the Catholic Church today.

Also, bear in mind, this was what all Christians believed until the Reformation. 1500 years.
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Very good answer. It brings the point home.

As for the Eucharist, and the presence of Christ (Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity) in the consecrated wafer, it is in the Bible, just as Shanin said. It is plain to see if one is willing to spend the time.

Christ would not have proposed something so drastic and then sat there watching people walking away in disgust if He had not meant what He said. We, as Catholics, eat of His flesh and drink of His Blood, so that we may have life within us.

God bless,

Agricola
 
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JKirkLVNV:
What do you mean? If the Church had never existed, or ceased to exist?
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Either or. What if you were not able to go to a church for the rest of your life would that change your salvation? My point being that salvation is not found in the church. I believe that protestants say my salvation is found in Christ not the church. What I’m saying is that we seperate Christ from his church. Not literally, but we see a vast difference between a relationship with Christ and a relationship with fellow believers. They are connected in ways but are indepentent of each other. That is why we differ on issues. I have come to appreciate a Catholic point of view but to convert protestants you would need to say why being saved by His grace was not enough. I’m sure this makes no sense to anyone else but its what I understand scripture to say.
 
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Agricola:
Very good answer. It brings the point home.

As for the Eucharist, and the presence of Christ (Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity) in the consecrated wafer, it is in the Bible, just as Shanin said. It is plain to see if one is willing to spend the time.

Christ would not have proposed something so drastic and then sat there watching people walking away in disgust if He had not meant what He said. We, as Catholics, eat of His flesh and drink of His Blood, so that we may have life within us.

God bless,

Agricola
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So is it the Eucharist that brings salvation or Christ’s death and resurection?
 
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smelton:
I’m sure this makes no sense to anyone else but its what I understand scripture to say.
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That’s why we have the CC to guide us into Scripture! Private interpretation is a very dangerous thing to do.
 
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smelton:
Either or. What if you were not able to go to a church for the rest of your life would that change your salvation? My point being that salvation is not found in the church. I believe that protestants say my salvation is found in Christ not the church. What I’m saying is that we seperate Christ from his church. Not literally, but we see a vast difference between a relationship with Christ and a relationship with fellow believers. They are connected in ways but are indepentent of each other. That is why we differ on issues. I have come to appreciate a Catholic point of view but to convert protestants you would need to say why being saved by His grace was not enough. I’m sure this makes no sense to anyone else but its what I understand scripture to say.
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First of all, and I don’t wish to insult you, but you need to learn more about Catholicism before you assert that we don’t believe in salvation by grace solely, ie, *sola gratia. *We do believe in grace alone, just not faith alone, at least not as Protestants believe it. Sola gratia is affirmed by Trent and has been the constant teaching of the Church.

If the Church had never existed, I would not be saved in the Christian sense nor would you be, as we would never have heard of Christ. It was the Church (the Apostles were the Church) that spread the Gospel, it was the Church (the Apostles and their disciples were the Church) who wrote the Bible, it was the Church who set the disciplines (Council of Jerusalem, on which sat the 12). So no. As for if the Church ceased to exist, I’ll have to answer that latter. I’ve an appointment.
 
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smelton:
So is it the Eucharist that brings salvation or Christ’s death and resurection?
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Jesus Christ was crucified for the sake of our salvation. He is the Perfect Lamb of God, the Perfect Sacrifice for the sins of mankind.

He left a Church with Peter, the first Pope, in charge of the Church. He breathed on His Church with the Holy Spirit. He also left us His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the form of the Holy Eucharist. It says so in the Bible.
 
Paris,
We ARE doing something about it and have been for the last 500 years.

This whole site is about dealing with that and all the other things that have been preached as Christianity/or against it in the last 500 years or so, though some of the really old heresies still pop up today, like arianism, iconoclasm and others.

Flinging the word “heretic” in someone’s face very rarely helps with any discussions though I would say that both Catholics and Protestants consider the other to be heretics, and so most charitable efforts just skip that part because it’s like two lil kids arguing back and forth…“You are too a heretic!” “I am not, you are.” “No, you are.” Am not!" , “Are so!” Blah blah blah :rolleyes: The imperative is the honest and quietly charitable discussion of the faith and the reasons why, not the alternative.
Pax tecum,
 
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smelton:
So is it the Eucharist that brings salvation or Christ’s death and resurection?
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Both! Since the Eucharist is the celebration of that death & resurrection in faithful obedience to Christ’s own command. “Do this in remembrance of me.”
 
Church Militant:
Paris,
We ARE doing something about it and have been for the last 500 years.

This whole site is about dealing with that and all the other things that have been preached as Christianity/or against it in the last 500 years or so, though some of the really old heresies still pop up today, like arianism, iconoclasm and others.

Flinging the word “heretic” in someone’s face very rarely helps with any discussions though I would say that both Catholics and Protestants consider the other to be heretics, and so most charitable efforts just skip that part because it’s like two lil kids arguing back and forth…“You are too a heretic!” “I am not, you are.” “No, you are.” Am not!" , “Are so!” Blah blah blah :rolleyes: The imperative is the honest and quietly charitable discussion of the faith and the reasons why, not the alternative.
Pax tecum,
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True. We do have apologetics and all that. I need to be one.

But what about the people who don’t go to this forum or whatever? For example, I know my parents will never go on this forum. Not that they’re anti-Catholic or anything but they just aren’t Catholic or really interested that much in the CC. Bummer I know.
 
Christ prayed for a visible, supernatural unity to his Church. He said we are all more connected to one another than a finger is to a hand (someone help me find that passage :rolleyes: ). The Bible says the Church is the Bride of Christ. How can you have a relationship with Christ while ignoring his Bride? Or even worse, scorning Her, insulting Her, and claiming Her children are condemned??
 
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RCCDefender:
The Bible says the Church is the Bride of Christ. How can you have a relationship with Christ while ignoring his Bride?
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Great point there!

But then non-Catholics will say that THEIR PROTESTANT church is the Bride!!!
:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
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shannin:
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herry:
My Oh My,

They call the wafer God. When they go to adortation they say ‘im going to see Jesus’, or Im going to worship the lord in the eucharist.
I was told a story of a French priest in Canada who had to say mass every day in a rat infested parish. One day after a host was consecrated, it fell on the floor. The rats which scurried along the baseboards dragged it away and ate it. (whether it is true or not is irrelevent, things like this happen every day)

Herry Herry Herry, You’re at it again. Read what Jesus said to the crowd of Jews:
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I myself am the Living Bread come down from Heaven. If anyone eats this bread he shall live forever; the bread I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." At this the Jews quarreled among themselves saying, “How can he give us his flesh to eat?” Thereupon Jesus said to them:

Let me solemnly assure you, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU. He who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

"For my flesh is real food and my blood real drink. The man who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the Father who has life sent me and I have life because of the Father, so the man who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from Heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and died nonetheless, the man who feeds on this bread shall live forever."

After this, the priest who recorded this story left the Catholic Church. He said “why do we worship a god that can be dragged and eat by rats? Or that is made with human hands?” Why do we worship a god that can be locked up in a chest, or fall on the floor?"

That’s like saying “Why do we worship a God that can be crucified”.

You should be ashamed of yourself for talking this way about the Holy Eucharist, especially in a Catholic forum.

When Jesus said to eat His flesh and drink His bood, He wanted us to beleive on HIm, and accept him as our sacrifice. “Jesus said unto them: I am the bread of life, he that comes to me shall never hunger. Her that belevies on me shall never thirst” John 6:35

“Thy words were found, and I did eat them, and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart, for I am called by thy name, O Lord God of hosts” Jeremiah 15:16

If you want to find Jesus’s Church, go outside and look at a vine. You will see hundred of branches, some going up and down. Some twist and turn. Some grow into each other, or around echother. But as long as they remain faithful to the original vine, they all bring forth the same good fruit. Jesus said "I am the vine, and ye are the branches"Pax,Herry

Jesus couldn’t have been clearer when he said that His flesh was real food. The problem with you is that you twist Bible verses to make a point. Herry, I will pray for your soul.

Interpretations are wrong when they lead to breaking of God’s commandments (Isaiah 8:20). If there has ever been a subversion of Jesus’ words, it is the one which leads us to worship an object.
Jesus was crucified, and suffered ONCE. “For a small moment I have forsaken thee, but with great mercies will I gather thee” Isaiah 54:7. Jesus was forsaken for our sins (Mark 15:32), as our sins crushed out His life on the cross (2 Cor. 5:21). But Jesus can be dishonred no longer, neither can he die again (Romans 6:9), or be worshipped by a material representation. It is not sacriligous to show why we cannot worship an object as God. I do not mean to offend anyone, but this is the result of strange doctrines.

Peace and love in Christ,
–Herry
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maesoph:
I just finished a tape set that summed up the differences between Catholics and Protestants when I least expected it. The tape set was “Marriage and Family, God’s Perfect Plan” or something to that effect. Basically, if you look at both the fall and the redemption of man, they are both FAMILY events. If you look at the relationshiop between man and GOd, it is also a FAMILY based relationship. When you get right down to it, your individual salvation is also a FAMILY event. At the fall, you have a husband and wife falling down and at the redemption, you have the mother/son present. This is not a coincidence, this is also where the sacraments come from - the basic nature of the relationship between man and God - FAMILY!!!

For those of you that think this doesn’t matter, just look at Islam where the basic relationship between man and God is master/servant or owner/property and this does manifest itself in their culture big time.

Anyway, if you jump into Protestantism, you have a distinct ME and JESUS relationship vs. a FAMILY of God relationship. Christianity suddenly becomes all about ME and JESUS and not about a family. I do not have time to go into detail, I am at work, but there is a distinct difference bewteen the God of the Catholic Church (Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, the Holy Family, Angels & Sts. as intercessors/helpers, etc.) and the God of Protestantism (JESUS and ONLY JESUS) - unless you are Pentacostal, and then you need the HS for a couple of back flips and speaking in tongues every now and then.
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I beleive there would never have been such a major reformation had the family of the RCC not been so dysfunctional and abusive.
 
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SolaChristo:
Christ has one Church, all believers.
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Christ has one Church, the one he founded. Those who are saved are members of it, whether they are formally or not, whether they know it or not. The Church "subsists in " and is the Catholic Church. The statement above was not believed at all for the first 1500 years of Christianity. It is a novelty, an innovation.
 
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SolaChristo:
I beleive there would never have been such a major reformation had the family of the RCC not been so dysfunctional and abusive.
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We freely admit that all the sins were not on the Protestant side (you might pick up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church). Nonetheless, Christ founded, but one Church.
 
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