Is Protestantism REALLY a heresy?!?

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Paris Blues:

I was flipping through that Catholic Answers book catalog I get in the mail once in a while and came across the Church History section and came across the book The Great Heresies.

The description included Arianism, Mohammedanism (Islam), Albigensianism, Protestantism, Modernism, etc.

If Protestantism is really a heresy, then why aren’t we doing something about it? Oh, maybe it’s because they are still Christians and should just let them have their religion and all that.

So it’s okay to have them know some error, eh?

I wonder how much error is expressed by Catholics on this site, daily ? A lot, probably. Be that as it may, the only way to exclude even the possibility of error is to make everyone a robot - and that is not what God made us.​

It’s okay for them to interpret Scripture alone thinking something means something when it means something else?

My point is, I DON’T want our brethren being “innoccently heretic-taught” (meaning they believe or teach something that’s really not true but it’s not their fault for not knowing) BUT like this country always says, it’s a choice for religion. Yada yada yada, now what?

This doesn’t matter ultimately, both because they are our brethren in Christ, & because God is not limited by our ignorance or powerlessness.​

Besides, they aren’t heretics. Only a Catholic can become a heretic, in the sense the word has in the CC. ##

I’m not trying to say go out and tell them to convert to Catholicism but how are we going to get the Fullness of Truth out there so that they can know it?

Maybe they don’t want it - they are free not to want it: God has made all of us free, which is why compulsion in religion is so utterly wrong. Some will have had it - and been no better for it until they became Protestants, if they were badly instructed in it. And not all Protestants are ignorant of Catholicism - far from it. Some will have considered its claims, but found them unconvincing; for any of a hundred reasons.​

Something to remember is that knowledge is not faith - & knowing about Christianity, is not the same as knowing Christ. ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

buffalo:

Sure it is. Heresy means to cleave away. The Protestants certainly cleaved away.

POI (If I might ): Latin haeresis is a borrowing of Greek hairesis, which = “choice”. It’s used in the NT a few times; not always with the acquired sense of “(bad) choice”.​

Doxa used to mean “opinion” - and to have orthodoxia is to have the “upright opinion”.

More here

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

herry:

shannin:

Interpretations are wrong when they lead to breaking of God’s commandments (Isaiah 8:20). If there has ever been a subversion of Jesus’ words, it is the one which leads us to worship an object.
Jesus was crucified, and suffered ONCE. “For a small moment I have forsaken thee, but with great mercies will I gather thee” Isaiah 54:7. Jesus was forsaken for our sins (Mark 15:32), as our sins crushed out His life on the cross (2 Cor. 5:21). But Jesus can be dishonred no longer, neither can he die again (Romans 6:9), or be worshipped by a material representation. It is not sacriligous to show why we cannot worship an object as God. I do not mean to offend anyone, but this is the result of strange doctrines.

Peace and love in Christ,
–Herry

We do actually not believe that Jesus suffered more than once. He can’t - to say He could, would be heretical.​

What was His Body when He “went around doing good”, if not a representation of God made man, in visible and tangible form ? ##

 

[christaddict]

Protestantism is a Christian heresy that has flourished since the sixteenth century after Christ. It says that man is saved by faith alone (sola fide), and not by works, and that the sole authority for doctrine is the Bible alone (sola scriptura), not any pope or council of bishops or tradition, however ancient or hallowed. It interpreted the Bible in such a way that the Catholic priesthood was no longer necessary.

G.K. Chesterson says, “Protestants are Catholics gone wrong; that is what is really meant by saying they are Christians . . . Thus a Calvinist is a Catholic obsessed with the Catholic idea of the sovereignty of God. But when he makes it mean that God wishes particular people to be damned, we may say with restraint that he has become a rather morbid Catholic. In point of fact he is a diseased Catholic; and the disease left to itself would be death or
madness. But, as a matter of fact, the disease did not last long, and is itself now practically dead. But every step he takes back towards humanity is a step back towards Catholicism. Thus a Quaker is a Catholic obsessed with the Catholic idea of gentle simplicity and truth . . .”

… more at Phatmass.com phatmass phorum

 

[SDA2RC]

herry:

shannin:

Interpretations are wrong when they lead to breaking of God’s commandments (Isaiah 8:20). If there has ever been a subversion of Jesus’ words, it is the one which leads us to worship an object.

Herry,
Either you do not understand Catholic worship, or your purposefully being contrary… To my knowledge no one in the Catholic Church worships and object, we worship God! Throughout the ages God has taken different forms on earth… a burning bush, a cloud, a human, a pillar of fire, and yes… even bread. In all of these forms he deserves worship and praise. Do you believe that we should only worship God if he appears in a certain way? If so. in what form should we expect Him? I believe we should worship God in all his Glory, including that of bread. But alas, I am sure you already know… we worship God, who appears as bread… just as Moses worshipped God who appeared as a fiery bush!

What do you say Herry, should Moses have also reserved his worship?

herry:

Jesus was crucified, and suffered ONCE. “For a small moment I have forsaken thee, but with great mercies will I gather thee” Isaiah 54:7. Jesus was forsaken for our sins (Mark 15:32), as our sins crushed out His life on the cross (2 Cor. 5:21). But Jesus can be dishonred no longer, neither can he die again (Romans 6:9), or be worshipped by a material representation. It is not sacriligous to show why we cannot worship an object as God. I do not mean to offend anyone, but this is the result of strange doctrines.

I don’t mean to offend you Herry, but your idea that we should not worship God because you don’t like how he has chosen to present Himself is definitely a strange doctrine!!! We believe God should be worshipped regardless of your denial of true doctrines

Peace!
Brandon

 

[allischalmers]

John 4:24 'God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

 

[shannin]

herry:

Herry,

You must be having doubts about your Church or you wouldn’t be here. Jesus is putting these questions and doubts in your mind so keep asking questions.

Herry, you call it strange doctrine but nonetheless Jesus was very clear. Many great men with brilliant minds, much smarter than you or me, are Catholic and adore the Holy Eucharist because they know it is the body and blood of Christ.

"If anyone eats this bread he shall live forever; the bread I will give is my flesh for the life of the world… Let me solemnly assure you, if you do not eat the flesh of rthe Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. He who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and i will raise him up on the last day"

Herry, the Catholic Church is the one true Church. Jesus started it and the “gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”.

 

[Paris_Blues]

Herry,

Why don’t you try to kneel before our Lord in the Eucharistic Adoration? You might change your mind!

 

[Superstar905]

If I could be honest here, whats the point of this thread?

 

[jpete79]

Paris Blues:

Great point there!

But then non-Catholics will say that THEIR PROTESTANT church is the Bride!!!

Nope but I will say that any true believer of Christ is part of the Church. Whether we are Catholic, Reformist, Evangelical, Baptist, Pentecostal, etc; if we are believers in Christ and live for Him then we all constitute the one perfect true Bride that is the Church.

Do you think a God that searches our hearts and knows our desires would tell us that because I was Catholic and not Protestant that I am not part of the Bride? Or since I was Protestant and not Catholic?

We are man and because of that we are sinners. We cannot get everything right and we will not have it perfect until the end of the age. That is when sin will be removed. When that Bride comes down, Catholics who are true to God’s words, Evangelicals, Baptists, etc who are true to God’s words will ALL be part of that bride because at that point, sin cannot blemish us anymore.

 

[Matt16_18]

Superstar905:

If I could be honest here, whats the point of this thread?

Perhaps we can get back on track by listing some of the heresies found within that vast sea of confusion that is Protestantism. Sola scriptura

Sola fide

Once saved, always saved (antinomian version)

Once saved, always saved (man-has-no-free-will version)

The doctrine of the secret rapture

The belief that only believers can be baptized

The belief that baptism does not bestow sanctifying grace

Denial that scriptures teaches the distinction between mortal and venial sin

Denial that mortal sins need to be confessed to a priest

Belief that one can be justified without being sanctified

Belief that salvation is given to adults merely by the intellectual assent to doctrine

Denial of Purgatory

Denial of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

Denial that Jesus is true man and true God

Denial that Jesus died for all men

The belief that Jesus did not die for any man

Denial that God wills that all men to be saved

Belief in the total depravity of men because of the Fall

Denial of the doctrine of Original Sin

Belief that God creates most people for eternal damnation

Belief that no one will be damned by God

Belief that there are many paths to God

Belief that one’s particular Protestant sect is the only path to God

Modalism

Belief that Jesus is not God the Son

Belief that Mary was not ever virgin

Denail that Mary was immaculately conceived

Denial that the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus

Denial that Christ instituted an ordained priesthood

Rejection of the dogmas defined by valid Ecumenical Councils

Denial that the Magisterium of the Catholic Church is infallible in matters of faith and morals

Belief that divorce is not immoral and prohibited by Jesus

Belief that abortion is acceptable in certain circumstances

Belief that practicing artificial contraception is not immoral

 

[Paris_Blues]

Superstar905:

If I could be honest here, whats the point of this thread?

What’s the point of you asking this may I ask?

But then again, you may not ain’t got not ain’t a clue! :whacky:

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

The difficulty with evangelizing protestants is that there are so many different kinds of protestants. You would have to have an encyclopedic head to remember how to discriminate between the different branches and thus deal with each one effectively.

The fatal flaw of Protestantism is that it is divided against itself. Thousands of different branches of Christianity is exactly what Jesus preached against. He wanted them all united in Him as He was united with the Father. The only thing that really unites them today is their name – “Protestant” – a generic name opposed to “Catholic.”

I sometimes wonder if it ever occurs to Protestants to put aside their differences and come together as one united body of Christians believing the same basic doctrines.

And then I say No, that will never happen. Protestantism is built upon rebellion more than anything else. It was so from the start and still is … new sects being created yearly out of discontent with older sects.

Sad.

 

[Superstar905]

Paris Blues:

What’s the point of you asking this may I ask?

But then again, you may not ain’t got not ain’t a clue! :whacky:

Well, the reason is, there is no need to focus on whether some group or groups are heretics or following heresy. Worry about knowing your faith well enough to be able to express it with love, and let the Holy Spirit work through you.

Any teaching that denies the truth is Heresy, and any Protestant will agree with that statement. As a Catholic, you have assurance that you have the truth through Christ’s Church in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, focus on teaching that fact to others rather than worrying on who fall’s into the category of “heretic” or whatever.

God Bless

 

[Paris_Blues]

Superstar905:

Well, the reason is, there is no need to focus on whether some group or groups are heretics or following heresy. Worry about knowing your faith well enough to be able to express it with love, and let the Holy Spirit work through you.

Any teaching that denies the truth is Heresy, and any Protestant will agree with that statement. As a Catholic, you have assurance that you have the truth through Christ’s Church in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, focus on teaching that fact to others rather than worrying on who fall’s into the category of “heretic” or whatever.

God Bless

True, I should be thankful to be in the Catholic Church. But then again, some Protestants will think that Catholicism is a heresy (why would they think such a thing since Catholicism is older than Protestantism…if they think Catholicism is a heresy then theirs must be too because it split from the CC ).

Oh well. I just hope one day ALL Christians - whether Protestants or Catholics - will be fully united!

 

[RiverRock]

SolaChristo:

Christ has one Church, all believers.

New 15th century invention alert!

 

[jim1130]

SPOKENWORD:

AMEN!! God Bless

What it really comes down to is this: Catholic believe in a VISIBLE Church; Non-Catholics believe in an INVISIBLE Church. That is kind of it in a nutshell.

 

[jim1130]

Gilbert Keith:

The difficulty with evangelizing protestants is that there are so many different kinds of protestants. You would have to have an encyclopedic head to remember how to discriminate between the different branches and thus deal with each one effectively.

The fatal flaw of Protestantism is that it is divided against itself. Thousands of different branches of Christianity is exactly what Jesus preached against. He wanted them all united in Him as He was united with the Father. The only thing that really unites them today is their name – “Protestant” – a generic name opposed to “Catholic.”

I sometimes wonder if it ever occurs to Protestants to put aside their differences and come together as one united body of Christians believing the same basic doctrines.

And then I say No, that will never happen. Protestantism is built upon rebellion more than anything else. It was so from the start and still is … new sects being created yearly out of discontent with older sects.

Sad.

Actually, Protestants were encourage to put aside their differences in this country in the early 19th century to help creat the Know-Nothing Politcal Party that was vehemently anti-Catholic. I suppose you could trace elements of theological misrepresentation of Catholics in America during this period.

 

[Superstar905]

Paris Blues:

True, I should be thankful to be in the Catholic Church. But then again, some Protestants will think that Catholicism is a heresy (why would they think such a thing since Catholicism is older than Protestantism…if they think Catholicism is a heresy then theirs must be too because it split from the CC ).

Oh well. I just hope one day ALL Christians - whether Protestants or Catholics - will be fully united!

That’s better, and I totally agree. We will one day be united, look at whats happening, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, Orthodox, all finding common ground with the Catholic Church and continuing to dialogue. The Catholic Church is tirelessly working for unity true to Christ’s wish, and it is starting, albeit slowly, to happen.

At the end of the day, don’t worry about Protestants thinking of Catholicism being a heresy, because in the end, it doesn’t matter what they think. Know your faith, let people see God in you, and be a light for your Catholic faith.

 

[SolaChristo]

RiverRock:

New 15th century invention alert!

Please show how “church” is defined from the Greek.
Please show how church was looked on by 1st century believers.
Please show how church is defined using all of scripture.