Is purgatory a Catholic invention?

[JasJose]

Once I heard a speech by a protestant pastor ( he was an ex-catholic, made his own church after leaving the catholic church) that purgatory is merely a catholic invention He claimed that there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. What do you people think???

 

[Scoobyshme]

First of all, he doesn’t know his Bible very well. Probably self-taught, or taught by those of equal ignorance.

Second, Catholics didn’t “invent” Purgatory any more than Columbus “invented” America.

Here’s a couple of links to some good facts on Purgatory (including Bible quotes!):

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp

If you really want to yank his chain, ask him where the Bible came from and when.

Here’s a link to a couple of factual videos on “Origin of the Bible”:

alabamacatholicresources.com/Bible.html

You might also ask him where in the Bible did Jesus give anyone (including him) the authority to found a Church apart from the ONE that He founded?

 

[Nicea325]

Once I heard a speech by a protestant pastor ( he was an ex-catholic, made his own church after leaving the catholic church) that purgatory is merely a catholic invention He claimed that there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. What do you people think???

The key word: EX-CATHOLIC. Most ex-Catholics I encounter usually are so far off what the RCC teaches, I take their words with a grain of salt.

Sources: catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp
catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

The doctrine of purgatory, or the final purification, has been part of the true faith since before the time of Christ. The Jews already believed it before the coming of the Messiah, as revealed in the Old Testament (2 Macc. 12:41–45) as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works, such as one which records that Adam will be in mourning “until the day of dispensing punishment in the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy” (The Life of Adam and Eve 46–7). Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.

Jews, Catholics, and the Eastern Orthodox have always historically proclaimed the reality of the final purification. It was not until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century that anyone denied this doctrine.

 

[VetA]

Second, Catholics didn’t “invent” Purgatory any more than Columbus “invented” America.

If you really want to yank his chain, ask him where the Bible came from and when.

You might also ask him where in the Bible did Jesus give anyone (including him) the authority to found a Church apart from the ONE that He founded?

those things make the protestants do this :banghead::banghead:

 

[soren1]

First of all, he doesn’t know his Bible very well. Probably self-taught, or taught by those of equal ignorance.

How do you know he is ignorant? I agree that Purgatory is Biblical, but Protestant interpretations of the Biblical texts that the Church uses to prove Purgatory are not so obviously wrong that only ignorant people can accept them. If I were not already Catholic, I am not sure I could not be persuaded by the Protestant reading of 1 Cor 3:15, which argues that it refers to the loss caused in the Church by ministers who work for impure motives. Things like prayer for the dead are a bit harder for Protestants to explain, but one occasionally reasonable claim is that prayer for the dead refers to praying for their resurrection, which constitutes their final deliverance from sins.

I am not, by the way, expressing agreement with these arguments: in fact I think they can be refuted, but I mention them to point out that it is unwise to jump to the assumption that because someone disagrees with you, that it directly follows that that person is ignorant. This is always true, no matter how plain the evidence may seem.

 

[Scoobyshme]

How do you know he is ignorant? I agree that Purgatory is Biblical, but Protestant interpretations of the Biblical texts that the Church uses to prove Purgatory are not so obviously wrong that only ignorant people can accept them. If I were not already Catholic, I am not sure I could not be persuaded by the Protestant reading of 1 Cor 3:15, which argues that it refers to the loss caused in the Church by ministers who work for impure motives. Things like prayer for the dead are a bit harder for Protestants to explain, but one occasionally reasonable claim is that prayer for the dead refers to praying for their resurrection, which constitutes their final deliverance from sins.

I am not, by the way, expressing agreement with these arguments: in fact I think they can be refuted, but I mention them to point out that it is unwise to jump to the assumption that because someone disagrees with you, that it directly follows that that person is ignorant. This is always true, no matter how plain the evidence may seem.

Well, I am not using “ignorant” in a polemical sense, but in a clinical sense. It just means he “doesn’t know.” And, clearly, he doesn’t. Otherwise, he’d say, “Oh, here’s the doctrine of Purgatory in Scripture.” Protestants, in general, from what I’ve seen, have extremely poor exegesis. They usually take more of a proof-texting approach, without regard to the original language as used at the time the particular Scripture they’re reading was written, or strong consideration of the cultural norms of the time, or more importantly, considering the oral tradition explaining the faith handed down from Jesus to the Apostles and their successors. They insist that the Bible is a do-it-yourself kit, ignoring the fact that that approach has produced nothing but continual splintering in Protestantism, as well as thousands of contradictory, man-made doctrines.

Now don’t misunderstand. I think many Protestants are more sincere than many Catholics I’ve met. They are often sincerely wrong. But they are, indeed, sincere. I think if there’s some way we can hook them up with the fullness of Christ’s truths, they would make wonderful Catholics! And, in fact, many converts do.

I just kind of cringe anytime I see an “ex-Catholic” trying to disprove Catholic doctrine. It’s always a case where they never really knew their faith very well, OR they chose not to accept it. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I ever did that!

 

[Scoobyshme]

those things make the protestants do this :banghead::banghead:

As my cousin who’s a nun, used to say of a very faithful, well-known nun (no name mentioned here), “Sometimes she “steps on toes” when she speaks. But when she does, it’s because those toes are where they don’t belong.”

Maybe those folks need to bash their head a little while. Might loosen something up to where they can think straight. LOL

 

[beckycmarie]

A resource with many scriptural references to Purgatory:

scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

Here are a few:

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

 

[JasJose]

First of all, he doesn’t know his Bible very well. Probably self-taught, or taught by those of equal ignorance.

Second, Catholics didn’t “invent” Purgatory any more than Columbus “invented” America.

Here’s a couple of links to some good facts on Purgatory (including Bible quotes!):

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp

If you really want to yank his chain, ask him where the Bible came from and when.

Here’s a link to a couple of factual videos on “Origin of the Bible”:

alabamacatholicresources.com/Bible.html

You might also ask him where in the Bible did Jesus give anyone (including him) the authority to found a Church apart from the ONE that He founded?

Thanks…I will check those links. Besides, I never believed him. It was actually around six or seven years before. I attend his speech three times. Half of his time he spent in attacking the church. I think his main aim was to attack the church than to be spiritual.

If CAF was there at that time I might have refuted him properly…

 

[BryanM27]

Maybe those folks need to bash their head a little while. Might loosen something up to where they can think straight. LOL

I’ve tried that…something got loosened, but I’m still not thinking straight…lol

As to the OP, I don’t know all the history behind purgatory but to me it just makes more sense than going straight to Heaven or Hell.

I ask these two questions of people who doubt the existance of purgatory:

1.) How can God who is all just simply ignore our sins, especially the ones we have not asked forgiveness for? Why would he let someone who was not pure into His Kingdom?

and if they arrive at the answer of “the impure go to Hell” I ask them:

2.) How can God, who is all loving, sentence a person of faith to eternal damnation? Why would he not be willing to forgive the sins of the faithful?

I choose those two questions because those are the questions I asked myself when I was trying to understand why purgatory must exist.

 

[Gloria1]

I am not sure if Purgatory is the same as “Sheol” in Judaism. Even though the word “purgatory” is not found in the Bible, the Bible made it very clear that there is a state of temporal purification after death.There are several instances. here is an example:Cor. 3:10-15 Also take a look at 2 Macc. 12:43-45

 

[Wesley7]

It seems like the doctrine of purgatory came about after there was prayer for deceased souls. (its in the Catechism)

 

[benidict]

the Jews did not call it purgatory, but you can find references in the writings of josephus, in the apendixes, and also the talmud, and other writings of Jewish sages. seems the idea has been around, for some time before the Church ever came on the scene. peace

 

[Soutane]

we don’t know if purgatory is a place or a process-it doesn’t matter.Our sins will not be "covered"as Mr.Luther indicated but they will be purified asif,"by Fire"There is nothing unclean coming into God’s presence…

 

[BryanM27]

we don’t know if purgatory is a place or a process-it doesn’t matter.Our sins will not be "covered"as Mr.Luther indicated but they will be purified asif,"by Fire"There is nothing unclean coming into God’s presence…

I thought of a great analogy for purgatory the other day.

Picture yourself working in the havardous viruses lab at a research facility. Before you enter the chamber filled with deadly diseases, you put on a specially designed suit and step into an antechamber where you are quickly sprayed with water to make sure you bring nothing in and to help limit what can come out. That first part is a weak analogy for baptism and putting on the armor of God.

When you then exit the experimental chamber, you are sprayed down even more thoroughly and any remnants of the viruses you were studying are washed away. Consider those viruses as being sin, and the water is purgatory. We are washed free of the “bugs” we have gathered in our life so that we may peacefully enter heaven 100% pure and clean.

 

[benidict]

I thought of a great analogy for purgatory the other day.

Picture yourself working in the havardous viruses lab at a research facility. Before you enter the chamber filled with deadly diseases, you put on a specially designed suit and step into an antechamber where you are quickly sprayed with water to make sure you bring nothing in and to help limit what can come out. That first part is a weak analogy for baptism and putting on the armor of God.

When you then exit the experimental chamber, you are sprayed down even more thoroughly and any remnants of the viruses you were studying are washed away. Consider those viruses as being sin, and the water is purgatory. We are washed free of the “bugs” we have gathered in our life so that we may peacefully enter heaven 100% pure and clean.

thats a great analogy. im actually looking forward to purgatory. i know there are things i did in my life, before conversion, that i cannot atone for. these need to be cleaned up. some suffering i can do in this life to atone, but i most definitly will need the purifying fire of purgatory to complete the process. i do not see why some people fear this. peace

 

[rinnie]

Yes I guess you could say it is. Just like the sacraments and the mass, etc. It was all invented by a Catholic named Jesus Christ. The head of the Catholic Church

 

[JasJose]

Yes I guess you could say it is. Just like the sacraments and the mass, etc. It was all invented by a Catholic named Jesus Christ. The head of the Catholic Church

that is a nice reply

I have three more DOUBTS.

1. Will saints go directly to heaven after death?
2. What type of people will go to purgatory?
3. Will people who dont fit to the above two categories go to hell?

 

[Hisalone]

Once I heard a speech by a protestant pastor ( he was an ex-catholic, made his own church after leaving the catholic church) that purgatory is merely a catholic invention He claimed that there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. What do you people think???

Of course he is right.

 

[JasJose]

Of course he is right.

:tsktsk:

you need to read previous answers by other members explaining purgatory…