Is Purgatory New?

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"We are not certain whether purgatory is a place or a space in which souls are cleansed. The Church has never given a definite answer to this question. The important thing to understand is that it is a state or condition in which souls undergo purification."

The above extract is from an excellent article by Father John Hardon (see below for whole paper).
If anyone does not know who Father John Hardon was they can google him. He was a well known Jesuit priest and theologian who wrote widely including catechisms accepted by the Church.

therealpresence.org/archives/Eschatology/Eschatology_006.htm
 
CCC 1031 describes it as purification. Purifiaction…which, i think, is a state.

You can google Varkey Vithayathil and George Alenchery.

We learnt that it is a state.
 
Yago said:
CCC 1031 describes it as purification. Purifiaction…which, i think, is a state.

You can google Varkey Vithayathil and George Alenchery.

We learnt that it is a state.
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Doesn’t anyone read the posts carefully. Nobody in this thread has argued that it is not a state/condition.
What the Church does not teach is that it is not also a place. Catholics are free to believe it is a state/condition AND a place!!
 
AprilFoolish said:
No. People understand that these are stories and parables. Purgatory is not literal, it is fictional.
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Purgatory is literal, it is not fictional. It is proved in the Bible.

Also, the question was not whether purgatory exists, but whether Catholics believe in it. It is not the point of this thread to discuss the existance of purgatory here, in which case this thread shall be closed. Just search “purgatory” and you can read a lot…
 
Yago said:
Purgatory is literal, it is not fictional. It is proved in the Bible.

Also, the question was not whether purgatory exists, but whether Catholics believe in it. It is not the point of this thread to discuss the existance of purgatory here, in which case this thread shall be closed. Just search “purgatory” and you can read a lot…
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Fair point. I would guess that a lot of people who were raised Catholic, don’t believe in it, having drawn the conclusion that it is fictional. I don’t know any Catholics who believe it exists.

Is that a better way to word my response?
 
meltzerboy said:
The concept of Sheol evolved in the Hebrew Bible into that of Gehinnom, that is, Purgatory, for the purpose of cleansing and atonement. Moreover, the atonement may have already begun in the form of suffering here on Earth.
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I didn’t know that. This is terrific information. Thank you.
May the LORD bless you and guard you –
May the LORD make His face shed light upon you and be gracious unto you –
May the LORD lift up His face unto you and give you peace
 
no its in

Matthew 5:48
hebrews12:14
james 3:2
revelation 21:27
1 john 5:16-17
james 1:14-15
2 Samuel 12:13-14
Matthew 5:26
Matthew 12:32
matthew 12:36
2 Maccabees 12:44-46
1 Corinthians 3:15
1 peter 3:18-20; 4:6
2 timothy 1:16-18
1 Corinthians 15:29-30

these are examples of its not new
 
AprilFoolish said:
Fair point. I would guess that a lot of people who were raised Catholic, don’t believe in it, having drawn the conclusion that it is fictional. ** I don’t know any Catholics who believe it exists.**

Is that a better way to word my response?
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I don’t know any Catholic who does not believe it exists!
 
Yago said:
Uh,…I thought Catholic teaching was…
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Purgatory is definitely a state/condition. It may also be a place. As to whether it is also a place the Church has not determined this and so Catholics are free to believe it is a state/condition only or a state/condition and a place.
The same applies to Hell.

The reason I raised this is because one poster stated as a fact that Purgatory is not a place. The Church has not taken a decision on this and so that poster can say in their opinion it is not a place but they cannot state that as fact.
 
thistle said:
I don’t have to scratch harder. I live in a Catholic country and we discuss our faith every day.
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I appreciate your point, but I am suggesting from an intellectual standpoint, not a religious ‘observance’ one.
 
thistle said:
Purgatory is definitely a state/condition. It may also be a place. As to whether it is also a place the Church has not determined this and so Catholics are free to believe it is a state/condition only or a state/condition and a place.
The same applies to Hell.

The reason I raised this is because one poster stated as a fact that Purgatory is not a place. The Church has not taken a decision on this and so that poster can say in their opinion it is not a place but they cannot state that as fact.
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Please read the teaching of the Church whose founder warned against misleading children posted numerous times here. It is a state, not a place.
 
Yago said:
Please read the teaching of the Church whose founder warned against misleading children posted numerous times here. It is a state, not a place.
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I think we can say that it is a religious construct, or a parable, or a metaphor but not a place in the literal sense.
 
AprilFoolish said:
I think we can say that it is a religious construct, or a parable, or a metaphor but not a place in the literal sense.
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purgatory is not a place. but it is not a construct, it is a reality. it is something that exists.
 
Yago said:
purgatory is not a place. but it is not a construct, it is a reality. it is something that exists.
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It depends on how you define place, being that it is not a construct doesn’t mean its not a place. Either can be a reality and can exist regardless of physical construct as we understand from a carnal perspective. A place can be an appropriate moment or point of travel in spiritual journey.
 
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