Is Purgatory Real

[FrankLawrence]

I sometimes use these.
Matthew 18:34
1 Corinthians 3:10-15

 

[De_Maria]

You say these things because you don’t understand Catholic Teaching.

Have you ever heard of the Purgative Way?

newadvent.org/cathen/14254a.htm

Essentially, we are all on the Purgative Way. We live a life of suffering which we must unite to our Lord’s suffering on the Cross:

Colossians 1 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:

Romans 8 17 And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God, and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.

2 Timothy 2 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us.

Because suffering is purgative.

1 Peter 4 1 Christ therefore having suffered in the flesh, be you also armed with the same thought: for he that hath suffered in the flesh, hath ceased from sins:

When Jesus died on the cross he said “It is Finnished”.

He was talking about the Judaic Covenant and His Passion.

Salvation is by grace through Faith not by works lest any man should boast.

Yet all who have been saved have been saved by Faith and works:

Romans 2 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 2 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

So a man is not justified by faith alone nor by works alone but by faith and works.

James 2 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.

I don’t need to go to purgatory to work on things.

Are you your own judge?

1 Corinthians 4 4 For I am not conscious to myself of any thing, yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me, is the Lord.

Christ is sufficient

You got one thing right.

. He told the theif on the cross"This day you shall be with me in paradise" not after some time to work out your salvation in purgatory.

Let me see. What did the Good Thief do that he might be deemed worthy to avoid Purgatory? Well, he had many works of Gold didn’t he?

1. He suffered on the Cross beside Jesus. Have you ever heard of the imitation of Christ. Who has imitated Christ so closely as to die on the Cross at the same time and by the same men?
2. He spoke the Word of God immemorialized in Scripture for all time. Who else has had so much effect on sinners than the Thief who was converted on the Cross and literally stole heaven.I myself had a very strong devotion to St. Dismas, the Good Thief.
3. And, lo and behold, God told him he was saved. Jesus Christ, Himself, told him he would be in paradise. If Jesus says it who can doubt it? O, you didn’t know that the Church says that anyone who has received a Special Revelation from God telling him he is going to heaven is saved? Read the canons of the Council of Trent.

But does the Scripture say that the Good Thief would not go to Purgatory and can we be certain that he didn’t? .Not really. Since Purgatory is a state and not a place, the cleansing that takes place in Purgatory could be instantaneous.

I just don’t see the doctrine of purgatory in God’s word. The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perrishing. My faith rests in Faith alone through Christ alone.

Mike

Since the Bible says that faith alone is dead:

James 2 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

and Jesus says that many who call Him Lord will not enter heaven:

Matthew 7 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The state of your salvation is precarious indeed. It seems to rest on your own evaluation of your conduct in this life and not on Jesus Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Church_Militant]

Yes, I believew that God is the highest authority. I know that is crazy talk for some. But let’s stay on topic.

Complete non issue to Catholics. But you don’t wanna believe that either.

There are no Scriptures that teach of anything called Purgatory, otherwise the RCC would not have to accept that the doctrine developed

.This is just propaganda. Purgatory was not developed…it was defined, and that based upon quite a bit of scriptural evidence.

Begin with Matthew 12:32, which says, “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.” Does this not imply that some sins can be forgiven in the age to come? Now think this through…There is no sin to forgive in heaven, right? Sin is not forgiven in hell because it’s too late and permanent. So…Implicit “purgatory”

1st Corinthians 3:15 which says, “If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” Again this cannot refer to heaven or hell for the same reasons as above. This is essentially the definition of Purgatory.

1st Peter 3:18-20 which says, “Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, 19 In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: 20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.”

and 1st Peter 4:6 which says, “For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: that they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh; but may live according to God, in the Spirit” Note that it was a prison for disobedient spirits and yet they were saved when Jesus preached to them.

2nd Maccabees 12:44-46 which says, "44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. 46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. "
The same reasons apply here as to the first passages I gave you…
In spite of allegations to the contrary, the concept of Purgatory is indeed quite scriptural.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Bishopite]

Let me see. What did the Good Thief do that he might be deemed worthy to avoid Purgatory? Well, he had many works of Gold didn’t he?

1. He suffered on the Cross beside Jesus. Have you ever heard of the imitation of Christ. Who has imitated Christ so closely as to die on the Cross at the same time and by the same men?
2. He spoke the Word of God immemorialized in Scripture for all time. Who else has had so much effect on sinners than the Thief who was converted on the Cross and literally stole heaven.I myself had a very strong devotion to St. Dismas, the Good Thief.
3. And, lo and behold, God told him he was saved. Jesus Christ, Himself, told him he would be in paradise. If Jesus says it who can doubt it? O, you didn’t know that the Church says that anyone who has received a Special Revelation from God telling him he is going to heaven is saved? Read the canons of the Council of Trent.

But does the Scripture say that the Good Thief would not go to Purgatory and can we be certain that he didn’t? .Not really. Since Purgatory is a state and not a place, the cleansing that takes place in Purgatory could be instantaneous.

You make some good points here.
Purgatory is simply the final step of our sanctification as even Protestants affirm that sanctification is a process of being made holy; if a person hasn’t reliquished their complete will toward God and competely repented from all of their sins then they will have some purging to go through after death.
And many Protestants falsely assume that the thief on the cross didn’t do any good works because he couldn’t do anything physical thus they try to point out that he was saved by sola fide. However, the thief did do some good by rebuking the other thief, telling him that both of them were guilty of their charges and rebuked the other thief for NOT choosing to trust in Jesus, so he did "do"something. And what he did was an act of love (charity) in telling the other thief that he needed to follow Jesus too. He simply did what he was able to do. Also, when we pray for others is that a good work? Yes (James 5:16)
Just because we can’t do a physical good work doesn’t mean we can’t do good works; and the good works we do is because God gave us the grace in order to do the in the first place.

 

[Atemi]

Purgatory was not developed…it was defined, and that based upon quite a bit of scriptural evidence.

Since we find no doctrine of Purgatory in the earliest church, and it was still a “perhaps” idea by the 5th century, it is easy to deduce that it developed over time.

Begin with Matthew 12:32,

“And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.” Does this not imply that some sins can be forgiven in the age to come? Now think this through…There is no sin to forgive in heaven, right? Sin is not forgiven in hell because it’s too late and permanent. So…Implicit “purgatory”

No implicit Purgatory at all.

You will never find any references in Scripture that refer to any age as some existence after death.

No.

The age to come is the age following the present age. If this age is here in this life, the next age is in this world as well, not anything that transpires to us after death.

Ages always refer to time on earth in Scripture.

1st Corinthians 3:15,

“If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” Again this cannot refer to heaven or hell for the same reasons as above. This is essentially the definition of Purgatory.

Actually it denies Purgatory if read carefully.

For one, men’s works are burned and tested, not men themselves.

Secondly, this text is clear that all believers shall undergo this test, not just some like the RCC teaches about Purgatory.

Thirdly, you will find no torment and punishment in this text at all, unlike Purgatory.

No.

No “Purgatory” here.

1st Peter 3:18-20, “Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, 19 In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: 20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.”

These evil spirits were imprisoned in Hades.

Hades is not Purgatory nor was it ever.

and 1st Peter 4:6, “For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: that they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh; but may live according to God, in the Spirit” Note that it was a prison for disobedient spirits and yet they were saved when Jesus preached to them.

No.

Peter is not talking about the disobedient spirits here. Christ led captivity captive. He preached the Gospel to those in Paradise awaiting their deliverance by their Savior.

Christ did exactly that.

These were not men being punished for venial sins in a place called Purgatory.

No.

You are only inserting the doctrine at places where it cannot even fit.

2nd Maccabees 12:44-46, "(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. "

No Purgatory here either. This text also contradicts the doctrine, even though it is not even inspired Scripture.

These men were idolators and the text says as much. They were guilty of mortal sin. They sacrificed in the vain hopes that God would forgive them after death.

“they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out”

Sorry, but God does not do that, and He does not forgive mortal sin in the Purgatory doctrine either. Let us also note that those in Purgatory are already forgiven, so no go here either.

Also, the text is clear why the sacrifice for the dead was made. It was made in the hopes that the men would be raised, not to lessen their pains and suffering in some place or condition called “Purgatory” (as if they all died in a state of grace).

They were sacrificing in the hopes that the idolators would be raised. That is not what you do for those in Purgatory because those in Purgatory are already supposed to be guaranteed resurrection.

This totally contradicts the developed doctrine of “Purgatory.”

…

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Thirdly, you will find no torment and punishment

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

There are no Scriptures that teach of anything called Purgatory, otherwise the RCC would not have to accept that the doctrine developed

The doctrine of Original Sin “developed.”

And the doctrine of the Trinity “developed.”

Just like your understanding of Scripture “develops” the more you read, reflect and pray upon.

Robert

 

[Atemi]

Where did you get the idea that the Church believed Purgatory to be a ‘place’ where souls suffer ‘torment and punishment’?

Even Dante had it right in his Commedia.

Hello Robert,

“Place” will do just fine. Semantic wrangling over such an important topic is silly. I even included the obligatory “place or condition” reference as to avoid the usual rebuttals, but I guess to no avail.

As to torment and punishment, that is all Purgatory is, untold suffering and pain as to punish God’s children for venial sin.

It is not my doctrine, so don’t blame me.

…

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

No Purgatory here either. This text also contradicts

Atemi,

I guess Scripture doesn’t hold much water with you.

In 2nd Maccabees, it is important to read the WHOLE passage (like other books) in order to avoid silly statements like the ones I have referenced.

Before burying these soldiers, Judas Maccabee prayed that their sinful deed might be blotted out. (Gee, asking God for mercy: what nerve!) The account continues by saying:

“In doing this he acted in an excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for it he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.” (12: 39-44)

Of course, deflating your Scriptural argument leads to your assertion of “even though it is not inspired Scripture.” Which is ironic coming from someone who evidently believes in the Textus Receptus from the Rabbis post-Pentacost and post-Temple destruction in around 90 AD.

Why don’t you accept all the revisions which delete mention of the virgin and the savior of all mankind? The Jews reassembled their scrolls into the TNK (or TaNaKh). This acronym stands for the three sources which the rabbinical scholars collected after most Jews became followers of the Christ.

This was a practice in primitive Christianity.

That should excite you: something that predates the Papacy.

Tertullian in around 190 AD praised the salutary custom of making oblations (shades of Maccabees!) for the deceased on the anniversary of their deaths.

He then wrote, “If you look in Scripture for a formal law governing these and similar practices, you will find none. It is tradition that justifies them, custom that confirms them, and faith that observes them.”

Robert

 

[Atemi]

In 2nd Maccabees, it is important to read the WHOLE passage (like other books) in order to avoid silly statements like the ones I have referenced.

Done. It totally destroys Purgatory as the Jews do not even believe in Purgatory anyway.

Before burying these soldiers, Judas Maccabee prayed that their sinful deed might be blotted out. (Gee, asking God for mercy: what nerve!)

Asking God to please forgive these men their mortal sin of idolatry in not only not any proof of Purgatory, it actually denies that the dead were in any sort of state of grace when they died.

The account continues by saying:

“In doing this he acted in an excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for it he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.” (12: 39-44)

Yes. He had the resurrection in view, not Purgatory.

Those in Purgatory are guaranteed resurrection so there is no absolutley no need to pray for the resurrection of those in Purgatory.

This is plain.

Tertullian in around 190 AD praised the salutary custom of making oblations (shades of Maccabees!) for the deceased on the anniversary of their deaths.

Yes. He said this:

“A woman, after the death of her husband … prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice” (Monogamy 10:1-2 [A.D. 216]).

Notice what her goal is.

She prays that he finds rest (not suffering and intense torment in punishment). Notice also that she offers sacrifice that he MAY be ressurrected. Again, the same error.

The souls in Purgatory are supposedly guaranteed resurrection, so praying that they MAY be resurrected is nonsensical.

The problem here is that Tertullian embraced different ideas about the afterlife, but he did not teach the modern doctrine of Purgatory. Far from it, actually.

And it is also worthy of note that he picked up these ideas after he started hanging with the heretical Montanists. We do not hear much of that in RC apologetics material.

He then wrote, “If you look in Scripture for a formal law governing these and similar practices, you will find none. It is tradition that justifies them, custom that confirms them, and faith that observes them.”

Yet we have a Catholic in this very thread who says this doctrine comes from the Scriptures:
"Purgatory was not developed…it was defined, and that based upon quite a bit of scriptural evidence"First Scripture justifies them, now tradition justifies them. I guess this all depends on who I am talking to at the moment.

…

 

[Zooey]

1st Peter 3:18-20,

“Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, 19 In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: 20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.”

These evil spirits were imprisoned in Hades.

Hades is not Purgatory nor was it ever.

Christ was NOT preaching to evil spirits!!
He was announcing the Good News of His victory over Satan to the souls of the just. He was telling them that, the gates of Heaven had been opened,and that they were, like the good thief, going to be “with [Him], this day, in Paradise”.
They were awaiting Him, to lead them to Heaven, because they had believed without seeing, living as they had, in the times before His coming.

 

[Church_Militant]

Done. It totally destroys Purgatory as the Jews do not even believe in Purgatory anyway.

In your opinion…in spite of direct comments from actual Orthodox Jews.

Asking God to please forgive these men their mortal sin of idolatry

in not only not any proof of Purgatory, it actually denies that the dead were in any sort of state of grace when they died.No one, not even the scripture in question, asserts that this is a mortal sin and as they were wearing some kind of charms (which God appears to have made sure worked in reverse). You are not qualified…and none of us are, to allege mortal sin against any other person since you do not know their hearts.

From the notes in the DRB:

40 “Of the donaries”… That is, of the votive offerings, which had been hung up in the temples of the idols, which they had taken away when they burnt the port of Jamnia, ver. 9., contrary to the prohibition of the law, Deut. 7. 25.

Your assertion therefore is nothing but an opinion…and an ill-informed one at that.

Yes. He had the resurrection

in view, not Purgatory.

Those in Purgatory are guaranteed resurrection so there is no absolutley no need to pray for the resurrection of those in Purgatory.Apparently those Jews (and even those Orthodox today) know something that you do not.

The souls in Purgatory are supposedly guaranteed

resurrection, so praying that they MAY be resurrected **is nonsensical.**No more so than reading your discourses trying to refute it…I’m sure that you have all knowledge and all understanding…lucky you.

The problem here is that Tertullian embraced different ideas about the afterlife, but he did not teach the modern doctrine of Purgatory. Far from it, actually

.

And it is also worthy of note that he picked up these ideas after he started hanging with the heretical Montanists. We do not hear much of that in RC apologetics material.:yawn:

Yet we have a Catholic in this very thread who says this doctrine comes from the Scriptures:
"Purgatory was not developed…it was defined, and that based upon

quite a bit of scriptural evidence"First Scripture justifies them, now tradition justifies them. I guess this all depends on who I am talking to at the moment.Typical of n-Cs…either/or thinking instead of both/and while seeking to create the appearance of conflict. Talk about an agenda driven “broken apologetic”.

 

[DJim]

A First-Century Jewish Rabbi, Paul of Tarsus, who studied at the feet of Gamaliel, wrote this:

1st Corinthians 3:15,

“If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.”

A 21st Century Atemi begs to differ:

Actually it denies Purgatory if read carefully.

For one, men’s works are burned and tested, not men themselves.

Secondly, this text is clear that all believers shall undergo this test, not just some like the RCC teaches about Purgatory.

Thirdly, you will find no torment and punishment in this text at all, unlike Purgatory.

Let’s look at the full quote from Paul:

For we are God’s co-workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it, for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.

First, nowhere does the Magisterium teach that Purgatory is where men are burned. The purgation is from all attachment to sin. As such, Paul’s analogy is perfect.

Second, the “thing” that all believers undergo is NOT Purgatory but the Day of Judgment–the particular judgment by God of the person at death. The “fire” tests the quality of the work, resulting in two different categories of the “saved.” The first category involves the work that “stands”, for which a “wage” is received. Easily interpreted as sanctity worthy of the wage of heaven.

The second category is work that burns which causes one to “suffer loss”, YET still be saved.

So, how can you say above that the passage does not involve some form of “suffering”???

I think the ball is your court, Atemi. Paul is referring to two separate categories of the saved here. One receives a reward, one experiences the suffering of “loss”.

Please explain how this passage does not refer analogously to Purgatory.

DJim

 

[Bishopite]

Since we find no doctrine of Purgatory in the earliest church, and it was still a “perhaps” idea by the 5th century, it is easy to deduce that it developed over time.

St. Augustine in the 4th century said otherwise…

"But by the prayers of the Holy Church, and by the SALVIFIC SACRIFICE

 

[De_Maria]

A First-Century Jewish Rabbi, Paul of Tarsus, who studied at the feet of Gamaliel, wrote this:

A 21st Century Atemi begs to differ:

Let’s look at the full quote from Paul:

First, nowhere does the Magisterium teach that Purgatory is where men are burned. The purgation is from all attachment to sin. As such, Paul’s analogy is perfect.

Second, the “thing” that all believers undergo is NOT Purgatory but the Day of Judgment–the particular judgment by God of the person at death. The “fire” tests the quality of the work, resulting in two different categories of the “saved.” The first category involves the work that “stands”, for which a “wage” is received. Easily interpreted as sanctity worthy of the wage of heaven.

The second category is work that burns which causes one to “suffer loss”, YET still be saved.

So, how can you say above that the passage does not involve some form of “suffering”???

I think the ball is your court, Atemi. Paul is referring to two separate categories of the saved here. One receives a reward, one experiences the suffering of “loss”.

Please explain how this passage does not refer analogously to Purgatory.

DJim

The problem is that this fellow, Atemi, believes in Sola Scriptura, therefore he believes in his own infalliblity and denies it to the Church. So, no matter how well you interpret Scripture, it doesn’t matter if you don’t agree with him. That is how Sola Scriptura works. They claim the highest authority is Scripture, but in reality it is their own authority which they exalt.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[mom4truth]

De Maria,

I beg to differ with your opinion…

 

[mercygate]

Gee, you’re in for an unpleasant surprise

Well, the OP is right. He doesn’t “need to go to Purgatory to work on things.” Jesus does ALL of it by the Blood of His Cross – even in Purgatory.

What is “finished” on Calvary is the opening of the Heaven. We still have to get through the door, and it mut be on His terms, for “nothing unclean” will enter the City…

 

[Philthy]

When Jesus died on the cross he said “It is Finished”.

Im sure that in your mind you have a clear connection between this statement of Christ and the topic of Purgatory. Unfortunately you have not shared it with us and we cant guess what it is. Please try and articulate carefully, from start to finish, what ideas that you have if you wish for others to learn from you.
Something to think about: Why did Paul say that he “makes up for what is lacking” in Christs crucifixion??? Could something that is “finished” still lack something. If so, perhaps the “IT” in Christs statement, “IT is finished” does not represent the totality of our salvation.

mike:

Salvation is by grace through Faith not by works lest any man should boast.

While I mostly agree with your statement, I would say that the works spoken of should be understood as works of the law. We are called to “do good” and “love one another” and those are certainly works - just not works of the law. I see them not merely as works though, but more importantly as acts of faith. “For we are Gods handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for…good works…” Eph 2:10

mike:

I don’t need to go to purgatory to work on things.

Correct - you need the entirety of what was “finished” on the Cross to be made complete in you. It’s not something that you “work out” - God does it. That is all that Puragatory is - the final purification and application of Grace (which was accomplished entirely by Christs work on the Cross) to your soul so that you’re made “perfect” to be in God’s presence for all eternity. It is nothing you do, it is what God does based upon what Christ has done. Sounding any better? :yup:

mike:

Christ is sufficient.

I hope you are beginning to realized that Christ’s sufficiency is what purifies us when we die less than perfectly prepared to see God face to face but are part of the Body of Christ anyhow. You probably already believe this but simply dont have a word for how the final application of Gods grace is accomplished when we die. Catholics simply have a word for it: Purgatory.

mike:

He told the theif on the cross"This day you shall be with me in paradise" not after some time to work out your salvation in purgatory.

There is no time in Purgatory - it exists in the eternal realm, like heaven. There is no contradiction between the concept of Purgatory and the thief on the Cross. Are you so naive to think that the Church Fathers were ignorant of the thief on the cross while the doctrine of purgatory was articulated?

mike:

I just don’t see the doctrine of purgatory in God’s word. The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perrishing. My faith rests in Faith alone through Christ alone.
Mike

All well and good Mike - part of the problem is you dont have the full canon of Scripture - but that is another thread. I’d be a little careful with the Faith alone terminology. Scripture tells us we are NOT justified by faith alone (cf James 2:24), only “He who perseveres to the end will be saved”.

 

[De_Maria]

De Maria,

I beg to differ with your opinion…

Ok, which one and how do you differ?

 

[Bishopite]

Well, the OP is right. He doesn’t “need to go to Purgatory to work on things.” Jesus does ALL of it by the Blood of His Cross – even in Purgatory.

Exactly. Purgatory is the final step of our sanctification. Jesus’ death on the cross was objectively sufficient to wipe away all sin in other words in others words it accomplished its objective, however, subjectively it did not, for everyone still sins or retains unrepentant sin up to the moment of death, therefore a final step of ones sanctification is needed. Protestants have a difficult time with Col 1:24 because Paul says that something is “lacking in Christs sacrifice” and that he (Paul) is “filling up which is lacking”

Paul here is speaking of the subjective sense of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross because if anyone knows that Christ’s sacrifice is objectively sufficien, it is Paul. He also knows that subjectively
how we apply Christ’s sacrifice to permeate our will and sanctify us is up to us, that’s why Paul can say he “fills up what is lacking” [in Christ’s sacrifice] for the church and the more you are being filled, the more holiness you will contain and the more sanctified you will be, and if you aren’t completely sanctified at your death, then you will need to be purged from that unrepentant sin.

What is “finished” on Calvary is the opening of the Heaven. We still have to get through the door, and it mut be on His terms, for “nothing unclean” will enter the City…

Yep.