Is Purgatory still part of Catholic Doctrine?

[huskerfanbb]

OK, I am still discussing things with the lapsed Catholic, but I am not on as firm of ground here since Catholics and Lutherans are worlds apart on this particular piece of theology.

She is adamant that Purgatory was “done away” with by the Pope and is no longer part of Catholic doctrine.

The sources I have found seem to contradict that, but again, I am not “up” on that particular subject.

Can anyone help me out?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

OK, I am still discussing things with the lapsed Catholic, but I am not on as firm of ground here since Catholics and Lutherans are worlds apart on this particular piece of theology.

She is adamant that Purgatory was “done away” with by the Pope and is no longer part of Catholic doctrine.

The sources I have found seem to contradict that, but again, I am not “up” on that particular subject.

Can anyone help me out?

She is incorrect.

What was addressed of late years was the concept of limbo. And it was not ‘done away with’. The fact is, we do not know what happens to the souls of innocent unbaptized children, and we trust them to the mercy of God.

But purgatory is by no means ‘done away with.’ Direct your friend’s attention to this, which should surely be authoritative as it is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and has not been ‘abrogated’ or 'done away with".

**III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY **
1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
[1031](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1031.htm’) The Church gives the name *Purgatory *to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

[1032](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1032.htm’) This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

 

[Iron_Donkey]

She is incorrect.

What was addressed of late years was the concept of limbo. And it was not ‘done away with’. The fact is, we do not know what happens to the souls of innocent unbaptized children, and we trust them to the mercy of God.

But purgatory is by no means ‘done away with.’ Direct your friend’s attention to this, which should surely be authoritative as it is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and has not been ‘abrogated’ or 'done away with".

**III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY **
1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
[1031](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1031.htm’) The Church gives the name *Purgatory *to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

[1032](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1032.htm’) This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

This

 

[Scoobyshme]

OK, I am still discussing things with the lapsed Catholic, but I am not on as firm of ground here since Catholics and Lutherans are worlds apart on this particular piece of theology.

She is adamant that Purgatory was “done away” with by the Pope and is no longer part of Catholic doctrine.

The sources I have found seem to contradict that, but again, I am not “up” on that particular subject.

Can anyone help me out?

I suspect that she is a “lapsed” Catholic because she never really learned (or practiced) her Catholic faith. That’s the most common reason folks leave.

The Catholic Church has never, and will never, change a doctrine of the faith. The faith taught by the Catholic Church was given the Church by Christ. We do not claim the authority to correct Him.

She may have been confusing Purgatory with Limbo. Limbo was never a doctrine of the Church. It was speculation, and remains so.

 

[Edmundus1581]

If the Church has done away with purgatory, then Pope Benedict didn’t hear of it, because he’s issued a plenary indulgence (with the usual conditions) for those attending World Youth Day in Madrid

Seriously, Rome and our diocesan bishops issue indulgences from time-to-time. I know that this is quite bizarre to most protestants, especially as you did have some valid concerns about their abuse at the time of the reformation, but it is just business-as-usual in the Catholic Church. Please don’t take it out of context! Indulgences do not remit the priority of faith, virtue and Christian living!

 

[huskerfanbb]

If the Church has done away with purgatory, then Pope Benedict didn’t hear of it, because he’s issued a plenary indulgence (with the usual conditions) for those attending World Youth Day in Madrid

Seriously, Rome and our diocesan bishops issue indulgences from time-to-time. I know that this is quite bizarre to most protestants, especially as you did have some valid concerns about their abuse at the time of the reformation, but it is just business-as-usual in the Catholic Church. Please don’t take it out of context! Indulgences do not remit the priority of faith, virtue and Christian living!

Thank you for your (and everyone else, too) reply. I did want to address this.

I am not really on here to debate the merits of any part of Catholic doctrine, or Catholicism vs. Lutheranism. Obviously there are many similarities (more, I hope, than differences)–and there are some fundamental differences.

I can certainly respect what the Catholic Church has stood for throughout history even though I don’t agree with all of their teachings.

My purpose in coming here was that the person I am conversing with was so convinced they were correct–while I was pretty sure they weren’t.

I certainly thank everyone for their replies on this, and the other thread I started. It is nice to converse with other Christians on the internet once in a while rather than the droves of atheists and agnostics that seem to populate most message boards.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thank you for your (and everyone else, too) reply. I did want to address this.

I am not really on here to debate the merits of any part of Catholic doctrine, or Catholicism vs. Lutheranism. Obviously there are many similarities (more, I hope, than differences)–and there are some fundamental differences.

I can certainly respect what the Catholic Church has stood for throughout history even though I don’t agree with all of their teachings.

My purpose in coming here was that the person I am conversing with was so convinced they were correct–while I was pretty sure they weren’t.

I certainly thank everyone for their replies on this, and the other thread I started. It is nice to converse with other Christians on the internet once in a while rather than the droves of atheists and agnostics that seem to populate most message boards.

Very nicely said! Always happy to share our Faith, and also to learn from yours. There have been a few other Lutherans on this board who have contributed well.

~ Edmundus