Is purgatory time and space bound?

[jasev]

God is beyond time and space, in fact he created both. I think most Catholics would agree with this.

Somewhere, either on this forum or on another Catholic website, I read a defense of Mary’s ability to hear prayers of everyone being possible given that she is now beyond time and space, being in heaven.

I think Catholics would say that people experience “eternity” in hell not as in an endless passage of time, but that they will pass beyond the realm of time and space into an “eternal” state of torment. (If this point is wrong from a Catholic point of view, please feel free to correct, but please don’t turn this into the whole thread.)

So, if heaven is a state beyond time and space, and hell is a state beyond time and space, how exactly does Purgatory work? Purgatory is temporal punishment… it is “time bound” right? Indulgences, etc, can lessen “time spent” in purgatory, right? Is purgatory thought to be somewhere in time and space… in this universe perhaps?

Thanks.

 

[MatthewBerkeley]

I’m interested in the answer to this aswell.
My initial thoughts would be that yes, Purgatory is time bound, because at some point in time, every soul in Purgatory will reach heaven, which is eternal. (Also does eternal imply outside time? or just not bounded by time?)
As for whether it is in this Universe, I don’t know if you can make comparisons between the whereabouts of spiritual and material dimensions.
I read somewhere before on this site about the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and apparently some theologian worked it out that only one spirit can occupy a given place at any given time, but what does that say about the interrelationship between the spiritual and corporeal dimensions? Perhaps it’s something similar to the time factor - maybe Purgatory is not necessarily outside space (or the Universe) but is just not bounded by it.)
I don’t know if that makes much sense, I’m sort of thinking as I’m typing

God bless

 

[mardukm]

Technically, the state of Purgatory is time-bound because Catholic teaching asserts it will no longer exist at the Final Judgment, when God will be all in all.

Blessings

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

God is beyond time and space, in fact he created both. I think most Catholics would agree with this.

Somewhere, either on this forum or on another Catholic website, I read a defense of Mary’s ability to hear prayers of everyone being possible given that she is now beyond time and space, being in heaven.

I think Catholics would say that people experience “eternity” in hell not as in an endless passage of time, but that they will pass beyond the realm of time and space into an “eternal” state of torment. (If this point is wrong from a Catholic point of view, please feel free to correct, but please don’t turn this into the whole thread.)

So, if heaven is a state beyond time and space, and hell is a state beyond time and space, how exactly does Purgatory work? Purgatory is temporal punishment… it is “time bound” right? Indulgences, etc, can lessen “time spent” in purgatory, right? Is purgatory thought to be somewhere in time and space… in this universe perhaps?

Thanks.

Space? No, because only Spiritual souls are there.
Time? Yes, because Purgatory will cease to exist at the end of time.

 

[MarcoPolo]

In the sense that it will not exist at some point Purgatory is “time-bound” as the others have said. As to the use of the phrase “time spent in Purgatory” that is not the best description and has not itself been part of the definition of Purgatory. Historically, that kind of language has been used to refer to certain experiences in Purgatory. Think of it how we say “heaven above” even though we don’t necessarily mean heaven is located at a geographic coordinate over your head. The phrase “time spent” is the same sort of prepositional description that does not necessarily mean there is a specific set of seconds, minutes, and hours a person is there.

Here’s what Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict) wrote on this subject:

"The transforming ‘moment’ of [Purgatory] cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of ‘short’ or ‘long’ duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The ‘temporal measure’ of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an ‘existential time,’ in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world.
. . .
"[Purgatory] is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints.
. . .
“Encounter with the Lord is this transformation.”
…
Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231

 

[jasev]

In the sense that it will not exist at some point Purgatory is “time-bound” as the others have said. As to the use of the phrase “time spent in Purgatory” that is not the best description and has not itself been part of the definition of Purgatory. Historically, that kind of language has been used to refer to certain experiences in Purgatory. Think of it how we say “heaven above” even though we don’t necessarily mean heaven is located at a geographic coordinate over your head. The phrase “time spent” is the same sort of prepositional description that does not necessarily mean there is a specific set of seconds, minutes, and hours a person is there.

Here’s what Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict) wrote on this subject:

"The transforming ‘moment’ of [Purgatory] cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of ‘short’ or ‘long’ duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The ‘temporal measure’ of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an ‘existential time,’ in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world.
. . .
"[Purgatory] is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints.
. . .
“Encounter with the Lord is this transformation.”
…
Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231

Interesting quote, thank you.

Would Catholics then understand Paul’s description (1 Thes 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:50-57) of those who are alive at Christ’s second coming to experience “purgatory” as they are translated into their incorruptible physical state?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Interesting quote, thank you.

Would Catholics then understand Paul’s description (1 Thes 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:50-57) of those who are alive at Christ’s second coming to experience “purgatory” as they are translated into their incorruptible physical state?

I don’t know enough about the teaching on the Second Coming and exactly “when” Purgatory will cease. Ultimately, all souls that reach heaven will undergo purgation until they are without blemish before they can be fully united with God. If at the Second Coming Christ is able to accomplish this in people without them experiencing physical death, then I presume we would not equate that to the “Purgatory” souls pass through who do die.

 

[Edwardjohn]

Interesting quote, thank you.

Would Catholics then understand Paul’s description (1 Thes 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:50-57) of those who are alive at Christ’s second coming to experience “purgatory” as they are translated into their incorruptible physical state?

I would think so, given the last part of that quote,“Encounter with the Lord is this transformation,” wouldn’t you? Our God is an all consuming fire. An encounter with Him would definetly purge that which is made of wood, hay, or straw. The Holy Father stated in a way that has caused me to understand it.

 

[Holly3278]

From what I have always understood, Purgatory exists outside of the bounds of time.