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CDNowak
Guest
“participate in a program”, not “The RCIA, which stands for Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, is a process through which non-baptized men and women enter the Catholic Church.”
Is RCIA absolutely the only way for a person to enter the Church today?
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diggerdomer
Guest
I’m sorry, I don’t understand your comment. Can you clarify? Thank you.
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CDNowak
Guest
According to the USCCB, RCIA is for the non-baptized. Those who are baptized participate in a program; an unnamed, unspecified program.
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diggerdomer
Guest
No. Read the RCIA approved (by the Vatican) for use in the U.S.
For example, see this archdiocese-phl.org/evangelization/formlaity/rcia.htm
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Aramis
Guest
RCIA is the normative Roman praxis for the reception of Adults (baptized or not) other than the Eastern Orthodox, Assyrians, Oriental Orthodox, and PNCC.
(These others, the EO, OO, Assyrians, and PNCC merely need make a profession of faith and acceptance of the Pope. EO, Assyrians, and OO are received as Catholics of the Eastern Churches in Union with Rome, often called the Eastern Rite Catholics, despite there being 5 eastern rites and 22 eastern churches in union.)
RCIA is written from the standpoint of the unbaptized. Baptized individuals have specific instructional subsets, and are properly candidates, not catechumens, and have different regulations, but are covered in the program as written. In smaller parishes, the groups are often combined for much of the process.
It is permitted, however, to receive the instruction by other means, usually 1-on-1 with a cleric (deacon, priest, bishop) or religious. Canon law forbids withholding sacraments from those adequately prepared and not otherwise barred by canon law. The requirements for baptism of adults includes suitable instruction in the faith, a sponsor, a period as a catechumen and an expressed desire to be baptized.
From the Code of Canon Law (Vatican’s English Translation)
Can. 864 Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is capable of baptism.
Can. 865 §1. For an adult to be baptized, the person must have manifested the intention to receive baptism, have been instructed sufficiently about the truths of the faith and Christian obligations, and have been tested in the Christian life through the catechumenate. The adult is also to be urged to have sorrow for personal sins.
§2. An adult in danger of death can be baptized if, having some knowledge of the principal truths of the faith, the person has manifested in any way at all the intention to receive baptism and promises to observe the commandments of the Christian religion.
Can. 866 Unless there is a grave reason to the contrary, an adult who is baptized is to be confirmed immediately after baptism and is to participate in the eucharistic celebration also by receiving communion
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2X.HTM
For the baptized:
A suitable period of instruction, and being properly disposed, and making the baptismal promises.
THOSE TO BE CONFIRMED
Can. 889 §1. Every baptized person not yet confirmed and only such a person is capable of receiving confirmation.
§2. To receive confirmation licitly outside the danger of death requires that a person who has the use of reason be suitably instructed, properly disposed, and able to renew the baptismal promises.
Can. 890 The faithful are obliged to receive this sacrament at the proper time. Parents and pastors of souls, especially pastors of parishes, are to take care that the faithful are properly instructed to receive the sacrament and come to it at the appropriate time.
Can. 891 The sacrament of confirmation is to be conferred on the faithful at about the age of discretion unless the conference of bishops has determined another age, or there is danger of death, or in the judgment of the minister a grave cause suggests otherwise.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P33.HTM
For the EO, Assyrian, and OO, the relevant canons are in the CCEO (Canon Law for the Eastern [Catholic] Churches), likewise those unbaptized who become catholic in an Eastern Catholic Parish of any non-Roman rite are governed by the CCEO.
Canon 587
Catechumens are free to enroll in whatever Church sui iuris they want, according to the norm of can. 30; however, it has to be provided that nothing stands in the way of their enrollment in the Church that is more appropriate to their culture.
Baptized Non-Catholics Coming into Full Communion with the Catholic Church
Canon 896
Whether it is a group or an individual, no obligation except what is necessary can be imposed on the Christian faithful who have been baptized in non-Catholic Churches or ecclesial communities and who ask of their own to enter into full communion with the Catholic Church.
Canon 897
A member of the Christian faithful of an Eastern non-Catholic Church is to be received into the Catholic Church with only the profession of the Catholic faith, after doctrinal and spiritual preparation according to each one’s condition.
Canon 898
The cleric of an Eastern non-Catholic Church entering into full communion with the Catholic Church can exercise his own sacred order according to the norms established by the competent authority; a bishop cannot validly exercise the power of governance except with the consent of the Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops.
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PGB.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PGC.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_POX.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_POY.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_POZ.HTM
(These others, the EO, OO, Assyrians, and PNCC merely need make a profession of faith and acceptance of the Pope. EO, Assyrians, and OO are received as Catholics of the Eastern Churches in Union with Rome, often called the Eastern Rite Catholics, despite there being 5 eastern rites and 22 eastern churches in union.)
RCIA is written from the standpoint of the unbaptized. Baptized individuals have specific instructional subsets, and are properly candidates, not catechumens, and have different regulations, but are covered in the program as written. In smaller parishes, the groups are often combined for much of the process.
It is permitted, however, to receive the instruction by other means, usually 1-on-1 with a cleric (deacon, priest, bishop) or religious. Canon law forbids withholding sacraments from those adequately prepared and not otherwise barred by canon law. The requirements for baptism of adults includes suitable instruction in the faith, a sponsor, a period as a catechumen and an expressed desire to be baptized.
From the Code of Canon Law (Vatican’s English Translation)
Can. 864 Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is capable of baptism.
Can. 865 §1. For an adult to be baptized, the person must have manifested the intention to receive baptism, have been instructed sufficiently about the truths of the faith and Christian obligations, and have been tested in the Christian life through the catechumenate. The adult is also to be urged to have sorrow for personal sins.
§2. An adult in danger of death can be baptized if, having some knowledge of the principal truths of the faith, the person has manifested in any way at all the intention to receive baptism and promises to observe the commandments of the Christian religion.
Can. 866 Unless there is a grave reason to the contrary, an adult who is baptized is to be confirmed immediately after baptism and is to participate in the eucharistic celebration also by receiving communion
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2X.HTM
For the baptized:
A suitable period of instruction, and being properly disposed, and making the baptismal promises.
THOSE TO BE CONFIRMED
Can. 889 §1. Every baptized person not yet confirmed and only such a person is capable of receiving confirmation.
§2. To receive confirmation licitly outside the danger of death requires that a person who has the use of reason be suitably instructed, properly disposed, and able to renew the baptismal promises.
Can. 890 The faithful are obliged to receive this sacrament at the proper time. Parents and pastors of souls, especially pastors of parishes, are to take care that the faithful are properly instructed to receive the sacrament and come to it at the appropriate time.
Can. 891 The sacrament of confirmation is to be conferred on the faithful at about the age of discretion unless the conference of bishops has determined another age, or there is danger of death, or in the judgment of the minister a grave cause suggests otherwise.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P33.HTM
For the EO, Assyrian, and OO, the relevant canons are in the CCEO (Canon Law for the Eastern [Catholic] Churches), likewise those unbaptized who become catholic in an Eastern Catholic Parish of any non-Roman rite are governed by the CCEO.
Canon 587
- Persons who desire to join the Church are to be admitted with liturgical ceremonies to the catechumenate, which is not a mere presentation of teachings and precepts, but a formation in all the Christian life and an apprenticeship duly lasting for sometime. 2. Persons who are enrolled in the catechumenate have the right to be admitted to the liturgy of the word and other liturgical celebrations not reserved to the Christian faithful. 3. It is the responsibility of the particular law to enact regulations by which the catechumenate is to be directed; these regulations are to determine what is to be expected from catechumens and what prerogatives are recognized as theirs.
Catechumens are free to enroll in whatever Church sui iuris they want, according to the norm of can. 30; however, it has to be provided that nothing stands in the way of their enrollment in the Church that is more appropriate to their culture.
Baptized Non-Catholics Coming into Full Communion with the Catholic Church
Canon 896
Whether it is a group or an individual, no obligation except what is necessary can be imposed on the Christian faithful who have been baptized in non-Catholic Churches or ecclesial communities and who ask of their own to enter into full communion with the Catholic Church.
Canon 897
A member of the Christian faithful of an Eastern non-Catholic Church is to be received into the Catholic Church with only the profession of the Catholic faith, after doctrinal and spiritual preparation according to each one’s condition.
Canon 898
- Besides the Roman Pontiff, the patriarch with the consent of the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church, or the metropolitan of a metropolitan Church sui iuris with the consent of the council of hierarchs, can receive a bishop of an Eastern non-Catholic Church into the Catholic Church. 2. The right of receiving anyone else into the Catholic Church pertains to the hierarch of the place, or if the particular law provides for it, also to the patriarch. 3. The right of receiving individual lay persons into the Catholic Church belongs also to the parish priest, unless this is forbidden by particular law.
The cleric of an Eastern non-Catholic Church entering into full communion with the Catholic Church can exercise his own sacred order according to the norms established by the competent authority; a bishop cannot validly exercise the power of governance except with the consent of the Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops.
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PGB.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PGC.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_POX.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_POY.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_POZ.HTM
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Sword_Brethren
Guest
I had something like that happen to me. Years ago I went to my local Catholic Church and got into the RCIA program. The teachers were modernists and after 6 months I left. In the class we were taught all most nothing about the Catholic Faith. When I left the RCIA, I thought what is the diference between the Catholic Faith and the protestant faith that I had. About two years later, not going to any church, I found a small traditional chapel and I went there and the priest taught me our Holy Faith himself and I was baptized. I went to that traditional church for 10 years before I left and got back in union with the local bishop and the bishop of Rome. I should have been taught the Catholic Faith from the first time at the local church. Good luck.The reason why I ask is though I am a Catholic by birth and choice, my dear wife of 32 years is not! I have taken her to Mass a number of times and she has been nothing but terribly disappointed and saddened by what she witnessed. Maybe it’s partially my fault as she has listened to me over the years describing the way it used to be, with the sincerety and reverence we used to have in the Liturgy.
We had at one time set up an appointment with the Deacon we had at our parish at one time and his description of the program sounded like something south of Hilary Clinton’s “It takes a Village” school of thought. “I don’t really like to call them classes, more like discussion groups” was his description of it. Our “Pastoral Associate” (though I have no idea what she does around the parish but write articles for the parish newspaper and maybe set up various and sundry “Bible studies” and other touchy feely effemerata. For this she studied at the local seminary!)was also present, which made my wife feel like she was being double-teamed!!!
That meeting soured my wife on becoming Catholic much less being Baptized. As I followed my wife out of the abruptly ended meeting, I told the Deacon and Pastoral Associate"Thanks a lot!!! You oversold the the Church’s Case with the wrong features and benefits for her(I’m in sales so I think in those terms.) What took me 30 years to accomplish(having her consider Baptism and the Church) you destroyed in15 minutes!!!"
My wife will still consider entering the Church, but she wants, to paraphrase her words,“Classes with the meat and potatoes of the Catholic Church, not the feel good fluff!”
Something more on the order of the old Catechism Classes.
Can someone out there help us?:
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RosaryCrusader
Guest
John, as you’ve already experienced FORGET all about the RCIA where heterodoxy is the norm and orthodoxy (the meat and potatoes your wife wants) is the exception.
NO, your wife does not have to go through RCIA. NONE of the Latin Mass Priests of the Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP) that I know of participate in any form of RCIA. Instead they will hold classes (if there’s enough people) or provide you with individual instruction and books to read and have follow up sessions where you can ask questions, discuss, etc.
RCIA, as a whole, is detrimental to the faith. Sure you’ll find a good one here or there but it’s better not to suffocate the life of grace in your wife by experimenting in finding a suitable RCIA. Go find your nearest traditional rite Priest (FSSP, ICK, even SSPX) to make sure you’re given bread and not stones. It sounds like your wife’s in a fragile situation right now and you don’t want to jeopardize that with the huggy-feely nonsense prevalent out there.
My wife went through the same thing but we were deceived in thinking there was no other way except through RCIA. The classes she went through were extremely dangerous to the faith where much of Catholicism was put into question - and this was by no means a “liberal” parish. I accompanied her to every meeting to make sure there wasn’t going to be any heterodox hanky panky and trust me, there was a lot of it. I regret ever condoning it but I didn’t know otherwise. Now I would never recommend RCIA to anyone. Just browse there forums and you’ll read all kinds of horror stories.
John, where are you at? I’m sure we can find a suitable avenue in your neck of the woods.
God Bless,
NO, your wife does not have to go through RCIA. NONE of the Latin Mass Priests of the Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP) that I know of participate in any form of RCIA. Instead they will hold classes (if there’s enough people) or provide you with individual instruction and books to read and have follow up sessions where you can ask questions, discuss, etc.
RCIA, as a whole, is detrimental to the faith. Sure you’ll find a good one here or there but it’s better not to suffocate the life of grace in your wife by experimenting in finding a suitable RCIA. Go find your nearest traditional rite Priest (FSSP, ICK, even SSPX) to make sure you’re given bread and not stones. It sounds like your wife’s in a fragile situation right now and you don’t want to jeopardize that with the huggy-feely nonsense prevalent out there.
My wife went through the same thing but we were deceived in thinking there was no other way except through RCIA. The classes she went through were extremely dangerous to the faith where much of Catholicism was put into question - and this was by no means a “liberal” parish. I accompanied her to every meeting to make sure there wasn’t going to be any heterodox hanky panky and trust me, there was a lot of it. I regret ever condoning it but I didn’t know otherwise. Now I would never recommend RCIA to anyone. Just browse there forums and you’ll read all kinds of horror stories.
John, where are you at? I’m sure we can find a suitable avenue in your neck of the woods.
God Bless,
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otjm
Guest
The very practical answer is that both candidates and catechumens go through the same program. REason? A) There simply is not enough staffing to run two programs simultaneously, and C) much of what is done in RCIA is relevant to candidates. To which I might add C) whoever came up with that either was living in an ivory tower, or if they had something practical in mind, they didn’t bother to let the rest of us in on it.
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CDNowak
Guest
You can match the horror stories against wonderful experiences, it all depends on the parish. That being said I already PM’d the OP with local parishes for him to check.
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otjm
Guest
There are some places where heterodoxy may be the norm. It is beyond presumptious, and bordering on slander to say that all or most are heterodox. As Catholics we need to be aware of the Faith and supportive of the Magisterium. Being supportive of the magisterium includes being supportive of the hundreds of bishops and thousands of priests who are also supportive of it.
The FSSP are a fine group but are not very widespread and are not available in most places. Should the OP be able to avail himself and his wife of their services, that is fine; however, They may or may not wish to baptize her if hse is not a member or going to be a member of their parish as according to Canon law (which they follow) one is not simply willy-nilly to choose a parish to be baptized in and then have no involvement in.
and you are full of hogwash. Your description of “huggy feely nonsense” is simply a personal opinion that you don’t like some styles of learning. You need to learn to separate out the message from the medium. Just because you may have decided that anything other than an intellectual discussion of doctrine is heterodox or hanky panky dosn’t make it so. Faith is not about doctrine; faith is supported by doctrine. Doctrine is important, but doctrine is not faith.
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SpaceNeedle
Guest
For what it is worth, having gone through RCIA myself, I have no clue where people are getting the idea it is some sort of touchy feely cumbaya session until Easter Vigil Mine was kind…but…made very clear there are rules, expectations, etc. and this was a very important path we were embarking on.
Being painfully shy by nature, I was scared to death to enter into the Church at Easter Vigil. I didn’t want everyone looking at me while I got doused! Let’s be realistic!!! I said.
tried like crazy to get out of it. But the catechists were great, and yep, in front everybody, I got baptised. I know the sheer terror the OP’s wife must feel but, the vast majority of unbaptised come into the Church this way, and we all survived it 
In fact, when you do come into the Church, it amazing the pure love you see on faces of those Catholics in attendance when they witness your baptism. It really builds you up and lets you know instantly you made a good decision 
Mine was kind…but…made very clear there are rules, expectations, etc. and this was a very important path we were embarking on.Being painfully shy by nature, I was scared to death to enter into the Church at Easter Vigil. I didn’t want everyone looking at me while I got doused! Let’s be realistic!!! I said.
tried like crazy to get out of it. But the catechists were great, and yep, in front everybody, I got baptised. I know the sheer terror the OP’s wife must feel but, the vast majority of unbaptised come into the Church this way, and we all survived it In fact, when you do come into the Church, it amazing the pure love you see on faces of those Catholics in attendance when they witness your baptism. It really builds you up and lets you know instantly you made a good decision
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kage_ar
Guest
Your city seems to have several parishes -
The RCIA schedule looks good here:
staidanlivonia.org/
If you go here, you can find contact information for all the Parishes in your area.
masstimes.org/dotnet/showchurches.aspx?type=CITYSTATERADIUS&q=&country=United+States+of+America&city=Livonia&countrycode=US&statecode=MI
The RCIA schedule looks good here:
staidanlivonia.org/
If you go here, you can find contact information for all the Parishes in your area.
masstimes.org/dotnet/showchurches.aspx?type=CITYSTATERADIUS&q=&country=United+States+of+America&city=Livonia&countrycode=US&statecode=MI
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RosaryCrusader
Guest
I like the little qualifier “MAY” - but do you have any examples?
Please don’t make me write a laundry list of heterodoxy either witnessed by myself, my wife, family, friends, acquaintances as well as callers on EWTN (when Mr. Angelica was still on the air) who would lament the RCIA process or a search result of horror that people posted here all of which represent a crisis in catechesis taking place all over North America and beyond. If you doubt such a crisis exists you would be at odds with the Pope who has acknowledged such.
The OP acknowledges the huggy-feely which was a turn off for him and his wife and rightly so. It’s not about disagreeing with a method of learning or that a particular method of learning makes the content ‘heterodox’ it’s about the content itself and I can safely say that there is a well documented catechetical crisis in the Church and right now that primary mode of catechisis for new or returning Catholics is RCIA.
All of this is very well documented and acknowledged so you will have a hard time proving that the orthodox RCIA is the norm rather than the exception.
Then what’s the point of RCIA? What you say doesn’t make sense and I’m not quite sure you understand the relationship of faith and doctrine. Faith is the virtue in which we believe in the truths that God revealed. When you say faith is not about doctrine you’re saying, “the virtue in which we believe in the truths that God revealed is not about the truths that God revealed.” What would this “faith” be in?
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diggerdomer
Guest
I think you need to careful about statements like that. RCIA is the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. It was prepared by the Congregation for Divine Worship and approved by Pope Paul VI. It’s not, therefore, detrimental to the faith, it’s a part of our faith (as all approved liturgical texts and Rites are).
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RosaryCrusader
Guest
A casual stroll through St. Aidan’s parish website’s pictures and bulletin reveals the typical Novus Ordo scenario: Yoga classes, altar girls, earthen ‘sacred’ vessells, and an abundance of women on the altar (ie. extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist).
You can tell a lot about how their catechetical programs are going to be by the way they celebrate the Mass and judging by the above mentioned items I think it obvious.
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RosaryCrusader
Guest
The concept was approved by the Pope but the individual programs vary by diocese and the supplemental content is determined by the particular instructor; whatever persuasion they may be.
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diggerdomer
Guest
It’s not a concept, it’s an approved Rite of the Church. If people don’t follow it correctly, that’s a problem. But RCIA itself is not the problem.
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jmcrae
Guest
It sounds like she is not really ready for the Catholic Church, since Catholicism isn’t actually a “me and Jesus” experience. It is more of a community experience - Communion of Saints, coming to Mass, and stuff like that. If she is wanting to practice her faith in total privacy, then she would not like to be Catholic, I don’t think.
It sounds like you have an issue with women working in the Church. What are your thoughts on the many women Saints throughout the ages? Although they didn’t have the title “Pastoral Associate” they certainly did similar work. St. Cecilia converted a crowd of 400 people by her teachings - she was martyred because of it, and she became considered a Saint because of that. So, the Church considers that she didn’t sin by getting up in front of a crowd and teaching them. (That’s basically what Pastoral Associates do. They are kind of professional evangelists. That’s why this lady went to Seminary - so that she could be an effective evangelist. She was not trying out for the priesthood, or anything like that.
)
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otjm
Guest
We can all dredge up examples. The problem is not dredging up examples; it is making the assumption that examples are the norm.
The issue is far more simple than would be supposed. Bad news sells. Good news doesn’t. anyone familiar with journalism should be aware of that; and I don’t mean those taking a course in college; simply reading the news paper and being a bit reflective would get the point across. I have no question there has been heterodox teaching. However, your jump from what you have heard to the presumption that most or even the majority of RCIA classes are heterodox is no more valid than the presumption that because one diocese is liberal and fast and loose with the truth, that all are, or most are or even the majority are.
RosaryCrusader;5733465The OP acknowledges the huggy-feely which was a turn off for him and his wife and rightly so. It’s not about disagreeing with a method of learning or that a particular method of learning makes the content ‘heterodox’ it’s about the content itself and I can safely say that there is a well documented catechetical crisis in the Church and right now that primary mode of catechisis for new or returning Catholics is RCIA. [/QUOTE said:
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jmcrae
Guest
Read the Rite for yourself. It has a section for Candidates. Therefore, Candidates are included in the Rite.
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