Is Religion a Scam?

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Charlemagne_II said:
Angry

Throughout history hundreds of millions of Christians have given their lives to good works; the Church has been a great and constant teacher of morals for the young; it has been more often the transmitter of social order than of social strife; it has consoled and uplifted the lives of the downtrodden and those in despair; it has built great hospitals and universities; from the time of Roger Bacon it has actually promoted scientific research rather than retarded it, the Galileo case notwithstanding; from the start the Church has taught the ignorant, comforted the lonely, tended the sick, visited the imprisoned, clothed the naked, housed the poor, and fed the hungry. To hear you talk, these things never happened.

What has organized atheism done besides plunging the world into moral anarchy and depriving mankind of hope for everlasting life?

The record of abundant and overwhelming atheism in the Soviet Union, China, East Germany, and North Korea speaks for itself, and the anti Jewish-Christian rampages of Hitler and the Nazis, is the greatest proof on earth that hell is as real in this world as in the next.

Moreover, it was science, not the Vatican, that invented the means by which the human race could annihilate itself. And it will only be religion ( see the Gospels’ “Love one another”), certainly not science (see Einstein’s letter to FDR) that will prevent us from using the weapons to do so.
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A few things.

First, atheism is not like a state or religion. You do not have to follow certain leaders, embrace various doctrines, or belong to a specific nationality, time period, or gender to be an atheist. All atheism requires is a lack of belief in the supernatural.

Being an atheist doesn’t make a person wicked, nor does it make them good. In practice being an atheist simply means not letting unseen (and quite possibly imaginary) supernatural powers dictate how you run your life.

Secondly, yes the communists were atheists.
So what?

The communists (at least the Soviet ones) slavishly followed the words of Karl Marx like a prophet. They were at least as irrationally passionate in their belief in the inevitability of class warfare and revolution as the most fanatical Muslim or Christian.

Yes, the communists were all officially atheists, but in practice that was at least as irrelevant as the fact that most Nazis were officially Christian.
 
Double A has good points, Charlemagne II; in fact, given our history, he was rather kind in not taking advantage of many openings you gave him. What say you?
 
RWMorris said:
Why just pick on believers? Why not be angry at anyone “who claim power and oppress others?” Then you could just be angry at all government in general - a much more productive attitude.
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Why are you assuming that I am not angry at oppressive government:D

I am, as a matter of fact.

But theocratic tyrants and other oppressors who use religion are special.

Once someone convinces you that THEY know what God (or some similar supernatural force) wants its very hard to deny them anything.

After all, they have God on their side.
They are therefore right and just by definition.

But I must reject this kind of reasoning.

For it is oppressive, illogical, and degrading to human reason.
 
Religion may be the greatest scam ever perpetrated in the history of the planet. Albeit, mostly, with some decent intentions. Mostly.
 
Religion may be the greatest scam ever perpetrated in the history of the planet. Albeit, mostly, with some decent intentions. Mostly.
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You can’t have it both ways, if your intending to scam someone then your not seeing there best interest at heart.

Anyways I simply wanted to say that it seems quite cozy where Atheists stand, they can point fingers at everyone else and then are apparently free from any harm to humanity from there own side…

Anyways I find the many calls from Atheists to erradicate world religions (whether aggressively or through “Reason and Logic”) to be disturbing in it’s own light, and certainly more than just a disbelief in the supernatural…
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
You can’t have it both ways, if your intending to scam someone then your not seeing there best interest at heart.

Anyways I simply wanted to say that it seems quite cozy where Atheists stand, they can point fingers at everyone else and then are apparently free from any harm to humanity from there own side…

Anyways I find the many calls from Atheists to erradicate world religions (whether aggressively or through “Reason and Logic”) to be disturbing in it’s own light, and certainly more than just a disbelief in the supernatural…
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Atheism could be wrong, too. For the most part, however, they don’t take money from people by passing hats in buildings on every other streetcorner and promising them that there is a heaven.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
But theocratic tyrants and other oppressors who use religion are special.

Once someone convinces you that THEY know what God (or some similar supernatural force) wants its very hard to deny them anything.

After all, they have God on their side.
They are therefore right and just by definition…
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When someone who isn’t a religious leader claims to have God on his side, or sometimes even a religious leader, I’m going to be more skeptical than just say “he agrees with my religion, and claims to have God on his side, so he must be right!”, or let him repeat it in a few speeches and convince everybody else. I’m going to look for evidence or tradition to support the claim.

That being said, even when evil or oppressive leaders claim to be chosen by God, they usually aren’t initially trusted or given extra power because of that claim. It’s usually due to a talent in rhetoric and politics, or sometimes military control.
 
Atheism could be wrong, too. For the most part, however, they don’t take money from people by passing hats in buildings on every other streetcorner and promising them that there is a heaven.
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WHAT?! First off your senario isn’t even taking money; it is asking for donations. The same exact thing Organized Athiests do to pay for there Billboards that say “God doesn’t exist, so enjoy life”.
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
WHAT?! First off your senario isn’t even taking money; it is asking for donations. The same exact thing Organized Athiests do to pay for there Billboards that say “God doesn’t exist, so enjoy life”.
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Shall we compare the coffers of atheism versus the coffers of religion?
 
larkin31 said:
Shall we compare the coffers of atheism versus the coffers of religion?
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Why yes, let’s!

The cash an atheist organization gets goes to…
  • Making other people atheists
  • Convincing people that there is no purpose in life
  • Making bare assertions on billboards
  • Annoying the **** out of theists using the above
  • Publishing/writing books
  • Blogs
  • Paying people to do all of the above
The cash a Church or Diocese gets goes to…
  • Building Maintenance
  • Paying for supplies
  • Sometimes building expansion
  • Education
  • Sometimes apologetics
  • Sometimes publishing
  • Missionary work and trips
  • Retreats
  • Work and trips to help the poor
  • Transportation
  • Donations
 
Pieman333272 said:
Why yes, let’s!

The cash an atheist organization gets goes to…
  • Making other people atheists
  • Convincing people that there is no purpose in life
  • Making bare assertions on billboards
  • Annoying the **** out of theists using the above
  • Publishing/writing books
  • Blogs
  • Paying people to do all of the above
The cash a Church or Diocese gets goes to…
  • Building Maintenance
  • Paying for supplies
  • Sometimes building expansion
  • Education
  • Sometimes apologetics
  • Sometimes publishing
  • Missionary work and trips
  • Retreats
  • Work and trips to help the poor
  • Transportation
  • Donations
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hahaha

you know I meant amounts

this is stupid, though

whatever
 
larkin31 said:
hahaha

you know I meant amounts

this is stupid, though

whatever
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Yeah, I couldn’t resist.

This is somewhat off-topic, but **do **any atheist organizations donate? Donate as in giving cash or buying food for a person of low wealth or social status.
 
Tonitz

*Double A has good points, Charlemagne II; in fact, given our history, he was rather kind in not taking advantage of many openings you gave him. What say you? *

Our history? Go ahead, why don’t you do it for him? For a Catholic you seem to love taking shots at Christianity. Right? :rolleyes:.
 
Not interested. They are “pot shots” from your defensive perspective. How useful can it be to be in denial about things that are simply data about one’s background?
 
Pieman333272 said:
When someone who isn’t a religious leader claims to have God on his side, or sometimes even a religious leader, I’m going to be more skeptical than just say “he agrees with my religion, and claims to have God on his side, so he must be right!”, or let him repeat it in a few speeches and convince everybody else. I’m going to look for evidence or tradition to support the claim.

That being said, even when evil or oppressive leaders claim to be chosen by God, they usually aren’t initially trusted or given extra power because of that claim. It’s usually due to a talent in rhetoric and politics, or sometimes military control.
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What if its the head of your Church saying wicked/crazy things (as has happened with Popes in the past)?
 
Pieman333272 said:
Why yes, let’s!

The cash an atheist organization gets goes to…
  • Making other people atheists
  • Convincing people that there is no purpose in life
  • Making bare assertions on billboards
  • Annoying the **** out of theists using the above
  • Publishing/writing books
  • Blogs
  • Paying people to do all of the above
The cash a Church or Diocese gets goes to…
  • Building Maintenance
  • Paying for supplies
  • Sometimes building expansion
  • Education
  • Sometimes apologetics
  • Sometimes publishing
  • Missionary work and trips
  • Retreats
  • Work and trips to help the poor
  • Transportation
  • Donations
Click to expand...
Can you name any of these supposed atheist organizations?
 
Tonitz

*Not interested. They are “pot shots” from your defensive perspective. How useful can it be to be in denial about things that are simply data about one’s background? *

Do you think we have not heard about the Inquisition? 😃

Who is in denial? The sins of the Church are well enough known and admitted. They are trumpeted by every atheist every chance he gets. What we do not expect, as a rule, is to hear a Catholic like yourself so much in favor of trumpeting them. What goes with you? :rolleyes:
 
Angry

*Can you name any of these supposed atheist organizations? *

Can you name some atheist organizations dedicated to charitable activities? There are thousands of Christian organizations dedicated to the same and have been for 20 centuries.
 
There is no trumpeting going on save in your exaggerations. If I was to “trumpet,” do you not think that I could do an exceptionally thorough job? I just think that there is much to be mined from the failures of the Church that is not accounted for in the promotion of its other aspects.
 
Tonitz

*I just think that there is much to be mined from the failures of the Church that is not accounted for in the promotion of its other aspects. *

No doubt. You mine the failures and I’ll trumpet the triumphs! 👍
 
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