Is Religion an Illusion?

[Aloysium]

A common objection to the validity of the religious experience is that it is not universal.

That is, many who define themselves as religious have never sensed the presence of God in their lives. If the religious experience was true, why wouldn’t everyone have it who wanted it?

I believe they have never known God’s absence.

It is through the encounter with nonbeing that reality stands out. For example, I have had a number of serious issues with my vision, was blind for a while etc. The existence of colour, the fact that we can connect with things at a distance, the entire capacity to create a visual world though our sensual relationship with reality is a religious experience for me. And that is only the "animal sou"l in us. Additionally, there is the capacity to discuss such matters, there is music, and love. To paraphrase CS Lewis, the next question is always, “Where does all the beauty come from?” Ahh

 

[Charlemagne_III]

To paraphrase CS Lewis, the next question is always, “Where does all the beauty come from?” Ahh

I have always wondered why the existence of beauty is so rarely advanced as an expression of God’s love, that we should delight in his Creation. It is perhaps because so few people see that beauty as deeply as it was meant to be seen. It takes a special effort of the soul to acquire that recognition of great beauty in a great painting, or a symphony, or a poem. By the same token, if you look at the Grand Canyon or the far away galaxies through a telescope you just begin to glimpse that God is the Supreme Artist.

Our ability to experience God should take the special effort of a soul dedicated to the task over time. God does not reveal himself, one might suppose, as an experience to those who are not serious about having the experience.

 

[mikekle]

besides knowing God exists and he is the creator, we really cant be sure on anything else, how do we know everything we see is not an illusion? Maybe in the next 500 yrs, we will better understand the physics and physics of our world, and discover it is all a thin ‘veil’?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

besides knowing God exists and he is the creator, we really cant be sure on anything else, how do we know everything we see is not an illusion?

We really don’t believe that. If we ever believed everything we see is an illusion, we would have to believe we are all insane. No? But how could we draw that conclusion unless we had some sanity somewhere with which to compare insanity?

It’s true there are religious fanatics, people who think they are Jesus Christ or Joan of Arc. Doubtless they think that they are sane and that we must be insane for not believing in them. They say they are having a religious experience. We do not believe it for a moment. But in the depths of their insanity they are turning to the image of Jesus and Joan as the archetypes of the only two people who qualify as their possible saviors. If only they could begin to think like Jesus and Joan, they begin to think they might open the door a crack that leads them out of insanity. Maybe, after all, they are mercifully having a religious experience?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Then there is the complaint often heard that religious experiences cannot be shared, and therefore cannot be confirmed. But how can you share what is deeply personal. Yet many have confirmed the experience that others have had by their own experience of God. Yes, proof of the sort required by an irreligious person is going to be lacking. But that is because the irreligious person is not spiritually developed enough to recognize what the experience of God would be like. It is certainly not going to be like any experience you might have in a scientific laboratory. It’s closes proximity would be the kind of love a man and a woman have for each other, a deeply personal experience which there is no way to describe to the person who has never known the same kind of love.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

How do we explain a religious experience, an experience of God, to a person who rejects God? How do you explain colors to a blind man whose eyes reject the experience of light?

 

[oldcelt]

besides knowing God exists and he is the creator, we really cant be sure on anything else, how do we know everything we see is not an illusion? Maybe in the next 500 yrs, we will better understand the physics and physics of our world, and discover it is all a thin ‘veil’?

I agree with you, but I wouldn’t call myself sure. I also share your notion of a thin veil that may lift someday. Until then…we are just guessing.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I agree with you, but I wouldn’t call myself sure. I also share your notion of a thin veil that may lift someday. Until then…we are just guessing.

The thin veil will lift when we shuffle off this mortal coil … that’s sooner rather than later.

 

[TEPO]

Some religions are illusions. But the lack of religion in the west through Deism and its Freemasonry has resulted in Materialism. Materialism has replaced religion as far as i can tell.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

The standard objection to the religious experience is that it amounts to little more than wishful thinking. Just as lonely children invent an imaginary friend to play with, man has invented a Super Friend. This was Freud’s analysis of religion in The Future of an Illusion. Did it ever occur to Freud that sometimes a thing we wish did exist actually might exist, even if it is not directly in front of us? Sometimes we wish for a friend and a real friend does in fact appear. We do not have to invent him. And sometimes when this new friend appears, he makes demands upon us that we’d wish he wouldn’t. That happens in the real world. It may happen as well in the supernatural world, that God would make demands upon us we’d rather he didn’t make. An imaginary friend is not likely to make the kinds of demands God makes if he is the product of mere wish fulfillment.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Materialism has replaced religion as far as i can tell.

The worship of material things today could well be more popular than the worship of God in the Middle Ages. But sooner or later, as the body ages and the mind begins to fail, it has to occur to the honest materialist (if there is any honesty left in him) that his materialism is a dead end.

 

[TEPO]

Some people think our observations of the natural world can help to better understand ourselves, our creator and how we got here… But when we use the world as our model we liken ourselves to the world. Its backwards. Its the most common mistake in all science and philosophy.

The better way to view things is by seeing the human being as a stardust-compressed diamond. It took an eternity to create us, and we are in Gods image. It would be a disservice to see ourselves as merely of this place. Life itself did not originate from the rocks of earth, so also the rules of our universe may not apply to us either.

 

[TEPO]

The worship of material things today could well be more popular than the worship of God in the Middle Ages. But sooner or later, as the body ages and the mind begins to fail, it has to occur to the honest materialist (if there is any honesty left in him) that his materialism is a dead end.

We might desire worldly material because we see ourselves as being born from this world. So if Deism promotes materialism through faith based in natural observations, then i think materialism ultimately leads to atheism. Atheism being a complete love of this world, which is nothing more than an incubator for life.

…With religion though, we are freed from the confines of this temporary world that we inhabit. We become spiritual beings.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

So if Deism promotes materialism through faith based in natural observations, then i think materialism ultimately leads to atheism.

I recognize the difference between Deism and Atheism as the difference between sitting on a fence and jumping off a fence into an abyss. In either case one cannot be very comfortable because the spirit is earthbound. If one wishes God to be impersonal, or if one wishes God not to exist, one reveals that one’s wishes have no appetite for the soaring of the spirit.

 

[TEPO]

I recognize the difference between Deism and Atheism as the difference between sitting on a fence and jumping off a fence into an abyss. In either case one cannot be very comfortable because the spirit is earthbound. If one wishes God to be impersonal, or if one wishes God not to exist, one reveals that one’s wishes have no appetite for the soaring of the spirit.

Could’nt be said better…:tiphat:

 

[mikekle]

We might desire worldly material because we see ourselves as being born from this world. So if Deism promotes materialism through faith based in natural observations, then i think materialism ultimately leads to atheism. Atheism being a complete love of this world, which is nothing more than an incubator for life.

…With religion though, we are freed from the confines of this temporary world that we inhabit. We become spiritual beings.

Well, thats only going to get worse, people end up worshiping materialism because thats all they know, that is the world we live in, sure many of us have faith in something more, but the fact is, we cannot see, hear or touch this, many people have tried and tried to find God, tried praying, asking for help, only to receive nothing, and nothing ever changes, so of course they are going to start to question if religion/ God is even real.

In the OT, God was more active in the world, and when Jesus was here, it was common for him to do supernatural things in front of large crowds of people, so they KNEW he was something special, above and beyond anyone else, but that was over 2000 yrs ago, and since then, we dont see Gods actions in the world as clear as before, IMO, this is why more people are not Christians/ religious in general, I think if God were to be more active and obvious in our world and lives…our world would do a quick 180…it wouldnt take much either.

God used to destroy cities for their sins, but we dont see even that in modern times, so its only natural for people to start to question whether its even real in the first place, I totally understand where they are coming from, I have tried and tried over the years to get to know God, tried talking to him, but have never heard any reply, or seen anything result, so what should I think? LOL

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I have tried and tried over the years to get to know God, tried talking to him, but have never heard any reply, or seen anything result, so what should I think? LOL

This is a common refrain from those who have lost their faith.

It may well be that God called you up and you answered the phone at Catholic Answers.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . God used to destroy cities for their sins, but we dont see even that in modern times, so its only natural for people to start to question whether its even real in the first place, I totally understand where they are coming from, I have tried and tried over the years to get to know God, tried talking to him, but have never heard any reply, or seen anything result, so what should I think? LOL

What I understand you are saying is that it is of no importance to know God.
There are no negative consequences.
Your trying to know Him, whatever that means (Evidently, it did not involve studiously reading and rereading scripture), went nowhere.
Considering the situation even evokes a “LOL”.

You have presumably decided that there is no God.

If it does not matter to you to leave it this way, I would say it does not matter.
There are all sorts of reasons for you not to know; a little bit of knowledge could turn you into a Pharisee for example.
Better this way.

The way I see Catholicism, informed by a lifetime of knowing predominantly Jews, is that we evangelize primarily through what we do.
It is not a matter of getting people to think what I think, but of participating in the Church, which is the soul of humanity, bringing it to its fullness in God.

 

[mikekle]

What I understand you are saying is that it is of no importance to know God.
There are no negative consequences.
Your trying to know Him, whatever that means (Evidently, it did not involve studiously reading and rereading scripture), went nowhere.
Considering the situation even evokes a “LOL”.

You have presumably decided that there is no God.

If it does not matter to you to leave it this way, I would say it does not matter.
There are all sorts of reasons for you not to know; a little bit of knowledge could turn you into a Pharisee for example.
Better this way.

The way I see Catholicism, informed by a lifetime of knowing predominantly Jews, is that we evangelize primarily through what we do.
It is not a matter of getting people to think what I think, but of participating in the Church, which is the soul of humanity, bringing it to its fullness in God.

Oh No, I have not lost my faith in God, I still believe he is the creator of everything, that will never change, but when I consistently have seen no results to anything Ive tried in the past, and absolutely feel NOTHING in my heart or mind when talking to him or praying, it makes me question certain things, but NEVER Gods existence or his being the ultimate creator.

I used LOL, not in a joking manner, but to convey a state of desperation and feeling kind of ‘left out’ when lots of other people seem to get plenty of replies and answers from God.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I used LOL, not in a joking manner, but to convey a state of desperation and feeling kind of ‘left out’ when lots of other people seem to get plenty of replies and answers from God.

What do you consider to be a reply or an answer from God?

As Bishop Sheen used to say:

God answers all prayers in one of three ways::

Yes.

No.

Wait.

Are all your prayers requests for something?

Are any of your prayers simple acts of adoration with a request attached?

God is reported to favor a humble request.

Keep in mind that God knows from outside time all that we have been, all that we are, and all that we are going to be. We tend to forget what we have been, ignore what we are, and not know at all what we are going to be. When we pray for something we think we need or want, God may well know better and that we should be denied our request until at least we have made ourselves more worthy of it being answered as we would like.

But if you see others having their prayers answered while yours are not, you see too that God is not an illusion, as you have already insisted he is not.

Maybe it is time to change the way you pray, or the things you ask for?