Is religion depressing mankind?

[humble_in_doubt]

Nietzsche said:

The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad.

I wonder whether this is true? He also said:

What is good? All that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself. What is bad? All that is born of weakness. What is happiness? The feeling that power is growing, that resistance is overcome.

Truer words have rarely been spoken. Another quote that’s pretty riveting is:

In truth, there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross.

A really great one:

The overman…Who has organized the chaos of his passions, given style to his character, and become creative. Aware of life’s terrors, he affirms life without resentment.

Nietzsche has perhaps the best collection of quotes of any philosopher (even though to read through his books can be tedious); but here’s one of his best:

What else is love but understanding and rejoicing in the fact that another person lives, acts, and experiences otherwise than we do…?

Also on the topic of love:

What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil.

Another goody:

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

Genius! Better than any Psalm or Proverb!

 

[OKCatholic]

So, you’ve replaced the Christian religion in your life with a secular religion. And you’ve even got a new messiah figure. Congratulations, you’ve done what countless millions of people have done before you (i.e. embrace a faith you can change on a whim and create a god you can form into your own image).

Welcome to moral relativism. Enjoy your stay.

 

[Cluny]

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.<<

I wonder how Nietche would feel about people who disagreed with him and his thinking?

Would he likewise whold in higher esteem those who thought differently from him?

 

[humble_in_doubt]

So, you’ve replaced the Christian religion in your life with a secular religion. And you’ve even got a new messiah figure. Congratulations, you’ve done what countless millions of people have done before you (i.e. embrace a faith you can change on a whim and create a god you can form into your own image).

Welcome to moral relativism. Enjoy your stay.

Well that’s the typical mantra. BTW I’m not a huge Nietzsche fan (but I do love many of his quotes). At any rate I don’t see atheism or agnosticism as any more or less morally relativistic than Christianity (or any other religion for that matter).

Some will say even if religion is not true it’s still valuable to imagine there is a grand architect of sorts and to live a moral life. I certainly won’t argue with the latter, but the former is arguable (since I understand and accept the fact that the god as depicted by religion simply doesn’t exist). Not everything Nietzsche (or the many like him) said is valuable. Moreover, philosophy isn’t what compelled me to reject religion in the first place (logic was).

Men like Nietzsche or Kant or the many other secular philosophers like them are valuable because they talk about reality not fiction. Christians act as if the god of Judaism was the first law giver. However, history bears out the truth … and this is obviously a misconception. From Hammurabi to Anglo-American common law … the field of law has been evolving ever since the cave men first figured out how to produce fire (and I’m sure even earlier).

So law preexisted religion, and it will outlive religion. Just because you can’t imagine a steady compass for law without religion doesn’t mean no one else can. In fact mankind has lived most of our existence without religion; and having religion hasn’t made us any less predisposed to barbarism. The only real thing that has moved us away from a primitive savage existence has been science and the evolution of law.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.<<

Good question … and I think it’s easy to say he was somewhat of a hypocrite.

For instance he said:

What else is love but understanding and rejoicing in the fact that another person lives, acts, and experiences otherwise than we do…?

So your first impression is certainly not without a sound logical basis. Obviously he had no appreciation for religious men who disagreed with him. In fact he said “Plato is boring” (and obviously had little appreciation for Greek philosophy). However, I still don’t think he was hypocritical. I just think at first glance it seems that way.

If a philosopher restrains himself from speaking freely then of what value is philosophy? So obviously Nietzsche wasn’t referring to the battle of ideas when he described love.

Even if he was a hypocrite it doesn’t mean he was wrong. Just means he couldn’t live up to his own mantra (but of course isn’t the same true for every Christian)?

 

[bloodofchrist]

Nietzsche was a chump if im not mistaken towards the end of his life he went crazy and would randomly burst out into scripture cause he to was born christian,true story.In any event i hope your not one of those people like on godtube they hate god so they try to bring everyone else down.Not everyone has a purely emotional need for christ i was an athiest until i was 21.I personally struggled to commit my life to christ because i did not want it to be something i just needed to be true but what i actually believed to be true.

god bless:

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Nietzsche was a chump if im not mistaken towards the end of his life he went crazy and would randomly burst out into scripture cause he to was born christian,true story.In any event i hope your not one of those people like on godtube they hate god so they try to bring everyone else down.Not everyone has a purely emotional need for christ i was an athiest until i was 21.I personally struggled to commit my life to christ because i did not want it to be something i just needed to be true but what i actually believed to be true.

god bless:

Nietzsche died of brain cancer; and I would hardly describe one of the worlds most renown philosophers as a “chump.” Additionally, no I don’t hate god (nor do I post my musings on youtube).

It would pretty illogical for me to hate a mythological concept I don’t believe exists (so you’re right … such a contradiction would make someone either really stupid or at least slightly crazy ).

 

[EasterJoy]

Nietzche rejected Christianity because it teaches one thing and does another. Fair enough.

Which of Nietzche’s disciples do you think most exemplifies the truth and soundness of his doctrines?

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Nietzche rejected Christianity because it teaches one thing and does another. Fair enough.

Which of Nietzche’s disciples do you think most exemplifies the truth and soundness of his doctrines?

I don’t think Nietzsche has any disciples, since anyone who believes themselves to be a disciple of any man is certainly not someone who has listened to anything Nietzsche had to say.

 

[malphono]

Whether religion is depressing mankind is doubtful. What is not doubtful is that this thread is depressing. Not to mention out of place. It really doesn’t belong in this particular forum.

 

[breadlife]

Religion is not depressing mankind but it looks like it is depressing you humble_in_doubt. Why even start the thread? Just to show how much you know about Nietczche? I think Thomas Hobbes said that life is “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” Who cares? If you have abandoned your religion, why do you participate in a Catholic forum? Why does it matter to you? If there is no God and religion is just a compilation of myths, then why do you care about what someone believes in their heart to be the magnificence of God. What is your purpose outside of the desire to argue? You can’t prove God. Why not try believing and really understand the Catholic faith you were raised in? Not with a will to disprove what everyone stupid enough to challenge you says but to try to understand the truth. A 30-something man of your seeming intelligence and skill would seem to have a better use for his time. You get your jollies once in a while but it plays into your ego even further. The whole point of Christ’s mission is that you will not find fulfillment in yourself. Your searching and your reading too much. Maybe try experiencing the joy of living beyond your self. Give some of your time and talent in helping someone less gifted than you. Your heart hasn’t connected with your mind yet. Give it a try. I pray that you find truth beyond yourself. Why not give faith a try? You seem to have tried everything else. What do you have to lose? I am sure you have read Pascal’s Wager.

 

[bloodofchrist]

you sound like matt damon hes a big fan of nietzsche too i ment no disrespect to you, but i could never stand nietzche i do however wonder why do you post if you dont believe.Are you still searching or is this just something to do.I say whatever gets you through the day but personally progressives depress me people who think they can master self do too.

p.s. liked plato better/are there any religous writers you liked cause some are pretty good

 

[MikeDunphy]

“What is good? All that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself. What is bad? All that is born of weakness. What is happiness? The feeling that power is growing, that resistance is overcome.”

Truer words have rarely been spoken.

Would you praise the murderer, the rapist, or the thief if their crimes made them feel powerful?

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Would you praise the murderer, the rapist, or the thief if their crimes made them feel powerful?

that’s obviously a misunderstanding of Nietzsche’s philosophy. His statement here is a follow on of Darwin’s survival of the fittest. If life is a struggle for existence in which the fittest survive, then strength is the ultimate virtue, and weakness the only fault.

However, Nietzsche did agree with the need for punishing criminals (and obviously did not praise murder or rape); though he viewed crime in an interesting way (as rebellion rather than mere deviant behavior).

 

[Heliotropium]

I really do not understand how someone can that logic drove them away from God? This sounds like a cop out. There are plenty of logical people that believe in God. Maybe you could explain how your possition is the logical one?

 

[humble_in_doubt]

I really do not understand how someone can that logic drove them away from God? This sounds like a cop out. There are plenty of logical people that believe in God. Maybe you could explain how your possition is the logical one?

Golly … I think I’m gonna write an essay on Word & save it (so every time someone asks I can just copy & paste ). No disrespect to you buddy … but man this question is getting old; but anyways here it goes.

OK we allegedly have this god who manifested himself in profound ways to men thousands of years ago. He split the red sea, turned sticks into snakes, rivers into blood, brought plagues down on Egypt, destroyed cities, flooded the earth, brought dead men back to life, and all the rest … yet just as man emerged from the cloud of ancient mythology and began looking at things through the prism of science god left the stage of human history. Coincidence? Hmmm

If that’s not enough here we allegedly have a god who created the vast universe we live in. A conglomeration over 13 billion years old, billions of light years wide, with numerous gigantic stars, solar systems, galaxies, and all the rest. Yet he couldn’t even preserve a single original manuscript of any of his work (not a single one)? It brings to mind this old school rap song, things that make you go hmmm!

So my position is perfectly logical, it’s just that most won’t synthesize this simple logic in their minds. Moreover, I’ve yet to hear any rebuttal to any of these points I’ve brought up time and time again here on CAF. I have heard some pretty typical bumper sticker type slogans about atheists or agnostic people, but no well formed intelligent and civil arguments? It seems like the few posters who have tried to argue in favor of the existence of a god became frustrated at the first logical rebuttal I launched and gave up pretty easily. I’ll say this … if someone can prove me wrong I’ll print out a few of my posts and eat the paper they’re printed on. I don’t predict I’ll be eating any paper, but I’m fully prepared to do it (and honest enough that if I say I’ll do it … I will do it).

 

[Heliotropium]

My Good friend Gods miracles have not left they have always been present and through out history. Nothing has gone away but rather has become vaild because peoples hearts have become hardend by their own pride. There have been many mericals performed by God including works done through the saints, and the eucharist turning into true flesh and blood. Another highly documented case was Fatama in were 90,000 people, atheist, agnostic, and religious all reported seeing the sun dance wich was an event perdicted by three children who were under the instruction of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Science has yet to explain those events., but has done a great job of ignoring them. Hmmm indeed my friend.

Also it was never claimed that God wrote anything on paper Himself. God is the Author of the Bible but never the one who wrote it. Maybe you are not finding the answers to some of your questions because you are accusing certian religions of not providing you with things they never claimed to have? In any case plenty of Gods inspiried works have been preserved in the Catholic Church.

If you want to find truth then I want you to do an experiment for me. Live your life by the seven opposing virtues and have a true want to find God. Your name is humble in doubt and I feel that it is when you humble yourslef you will find God.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

My Good friend Gods miracles have not left they have always been present and through out history. Nothing has gone away but rather has become vaild because peoples hearts have become hardend by their own pride. There have been many mericals performed by God including works done through the saints, and the eucharist turning into true flesh and blood. Another highly documented case was Fatama in were 90,000 people, atheist, agnostic, and religious all reported seeing the sun dance wich was an event perdicted by three children who were under the instruction of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Science has yet to explain those events., but has done a great job of ignoring them. Hmmm indeed my friend.

but science has explained Fatima and even Lourdes for that matter. I’ve researched those events pretty extensively (I’ve had a few drinks this evening so you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t elaborate too much, tomorrow perhaps).

Also it was never claimed that God wrote anything on paper Himself. God is the Author of the Bible but never the one who wrote it. Maybe you are not finding the answers to some of your questions because you are accusing certian religions of not providing you with things they never claimed to have? In any case plenty of Gods inspiried works have been preserved in the Catholic Church.

If you want to find truth then I want you to do an experiment for me. Live your life by the seven opposing virtues and have a true want to find God. Your name is humble in doubt and I feel that it is when you humble yourslef you will find God.

There’s a good argument to support the notion that doubt is more humble than certainty (when dealing with the unknown). As far as living a virtuous life … I think I do. I live the Army values, which are much more strict than biblical values (I know, I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, was an alter boy, and the whole nine yards).

 

[Heliotropium]

No problem friend. I look forward to seeing what you have found regarding those events. With Fatima the best explaination I have heard from the scientific community is that there are times when the sun can “appear” to look like it is dancing. However this does not explain how the soaked clothes and ground after it had been raining became instantly dry. People were waiting for hours in the rain for that miracle and when it did happen it did not take long. We have all seen what happens after it rains and how long it takes for drenched things to become dry. It takes hours but yet with the events at fatima it took just that small amount of time while the sun was reported by 90,000 people to be dancing and falling toward earth. Also I may mention again the miracles performed by the saints both while they were living and after they have died. Saints like St. Rita, and Fr. Salanas Casey with there miracle healings. St. Padre Pio who was reported to have the ability to be in two places at the same time. How about the nation wide Marian apperitions that have been reported in the US, China, Africa, and etc. What about the Eucharistic Miracles in where the host actually has been reported to turn into a piece of flesh and blood with a blood type. There is so much more its rediculious. Miracles have never stop being performed people have just chose to look away and ignore them.

I’m not trying to attack your way of life nor say that you are not a person who lives a life of virtue. I believe you genuinly want to find the truth but I believe you are some what afraid of what you will find. Also my friend the reason why one would want to follow the seven virtuse is because they will help you find Christ as the Army will not. This is because the army virtues are based on your will being done rather than Gods will being done through you. When I was agnostic and deserning my path I read the verse where Christ said those who are pure of heart shall see God. It is with this that I made a resolution that with a pure heart I will search for Him. It is threw those seven virtues that you make your heart pure and following those everyday is harder than any Army code. I can see though (and I mean no offense) that you are already making excuses for why you will not try my experiment. You claim to already be virtious enough which is diffently as signe of pride but also an excuse. I used to say the same thing until I allowed God to show me just how virtious I was, and He did. The answer I received was that I was not even close. The seven virtues will detach you from the world you are rooted in. They will be stricter than any code you follow now, they will open your eyes to the world beyond the one you see infront of you, and their benifit to you will be pricless.

 

[NoWings]

but science has explained Fatima and even Lourdes for that matter. I’ve researched those events pretty extensively (I’ve had a few drinks this evening so you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t elaborate too much, tomorrow perhaps).

Have you researched Our Lady of Zeitoun?