Is Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 antisemitic?

[artortega]

Here are 2 supposed antisemitic verses in KJV:
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
I think these verses are a bit antisemitic.

 

[midori]

My first thought-- was Revelation written before or after Galatians/the Council of Jerusalem?

Remember that there was a great amount of debate in the early Church, as to whether followers of Christ were Jews, or something else. Because Jesus was Jewish, and his earliest followers were Jewish-- but did Gentiles who accepted Jesus as their Messiah first have to convert to Judaism, and adopt all the cultural/religious laws, before they could be a proper follower of Christ?

So, if it’s coming from that context-- the timing makes a big difference on how to interpret it.

 

[Gorgias]

Revelation 2:9 I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie

I think these verses are a bit antisemitic.

Why would you say that they’re “anti-Semitic”? What does that term mean to you?

 

[artortega]

Some Christian pastors like Steven Anderson say that Jews are the synagogue of Satan and anti-Christs. These verses say that Jews are the children of the devil.

 

[midori]

But that doesn’t make sense to interpret them as blanket statements. Even a quick glance shows the first comment is specifically addressed to the Church in Smyrna–

To the Church in Smyrna
8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

11 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death.

and the second was written to the Church in Philadelphia:

To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

He’s referring to specific people in specific towns who are deliberately causing strife, rather than acting with unity, love, and charity.

 

[ATraveller]

It’s best you don’t treat Steven Anderson seriously.
As midori has shown, it helps to read more than a verse. At minimum read the few preceding and those after.

 

[artortega]

But those specific people that you say are Jews. Those Jews were persecuting Christians in those towns.

 

[curious_cath]

synagogue of Satan.

It was said because of the expulsion of the followers of Jesus from the synagogues.

"As the divinity of Christ came to more articulate and explicit expression, first in the letters of St. Paul, the realization gradually emerged that they were expanding the traditional Jewish monotheism so as to encompass the person of Jesus. The Jewish Synod of Jamnia, probably in the mid-80s of the 1st century, was responsible for excommunicating the Christians/ Nazarenes from mainstream Judaism for two reasons: first, this expansion of monotheism, and second, the repudiation of Torah dietary laws and circumcision that came with the embrace of the Gentiles. "

https://www.catholicsentinel.org/Content/Faith-Spirituality/The-Question-Box/Article/Why-were-Christians-expelled-from-synagogues-/4/73/24733

 

[Gorgias]

Some Christian pastors like Steven Anderson say that Jews are the synagogue of Satan and anti-Christs.

OK, then: some Christian pastors are anti-Semitic. Big difference.

These verses say that Jews are the children of the devil.

No they don’t. They say that there are Jews who match that description; they don’t say that all Jews do. I would suggest that, while the latter is an anti-Semitic assertion, the former is not.

 

[midori]

But that goes back to my first question— they probably weren’t calling themselves Christians at that point. They were still calling themselves Jews Who Had Their Messiah. It took longer than this for them to really separate from their Jewish roots.

Even Paul considered himself Jewish–

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

or

Then Paul said: 3 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today. 4 I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison, 5 as the high priest and all the Council can themselves testify. I even obtained letters from them to their associates in Damascus, and went there to bring these people as prisoners to Jerusalem to be punished.

So, within the group of Jews, there are Jews who follow Christ, and there are Jews who reject him as their Messiah. Paul isn’t specifying which group the slanderers and the liars are coming from, because presumably, the recipients of his letters are familiar with current events. We can just make deductions based on what we know. But those don’t read like blanket stereotypes of a whole group of people-- it looks like a specific reference to a specific group of people stirring up a specific batch of trouble in a specific location.

 

[guanophore]

"As the divinity of Christ came to more articulate and explicit expression, first in the letters of St. Paul, the realization gradually emerged that they were expanding the traditional Jewish monotheism so as to encompass the person of Jesus.

I dont’ think this is well stated. First of all, Jesus declared Himself God, and the Apostles did the same. This went on for 20 years before any of the Epistles of Paul were penned.

 

[artortega]

Romans 2:25-29 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
These verses say that Jews who do not believe in Jesus Christ are not circumcised in the heart.
Philippians 3:1-3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
These Verses say that Jews are not circumcised in the heart because they do not believe in Jesus Christ. Jews are circumcised in the flesh.

 

[guanophore]

Remember that there was a great amount of debate in the early Church, as to whether followers of Christ were Jews, or something else.

Acts 11:26 and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church, and taught a large company of people; and in Antioch the disciples were for the first time called Christians. Acts. 11:26

 

[phil19034]

Here are 2 supposed antisemitic verses in KJV:
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
I think these verses are a bit antisemitic.

No, they are NOT anti-Semitic for several reasons. Here are a few.

1. the entire Bible (both OT and NT) was written by Jewish people.
2. when the NT talks negatively about “the Jews,” there are not really talking about the average Jewish man, but rather the Jews leadership or all of humanity.
3. something a lot of people don’t know, but some members of the Jewish Sanhedren were political appointees from the Roman Empire (even if indirect). So while there were surely good people in the Sanhedren, the Chief Priest and enough other members of the Sanhedren were in Rome’s pocket.
4. piggy backing off #3, not all Jewish religious leaders were true believers.

So the idea that the NT is antisemitic is simply bad history… reading history via modern eyes instead of contemporary eyes.

God Bless

 

[midori]

These Verses say that Jews are not circumcised in the heart because they do not believe in Jesus Christ. Jews are circumcised in the flesh.

Are you sure that’s what it’s saying?

17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Who’s he writing to? He’s writing to the Romans. The Roman church, presumably, has a mixture of Gentiles and Jews in Paul’s audience. He points out in the verses above that it’s not just hearing the law, but obeying the law that’s written on their hearts, that brings salvation to the Gentiles, just as not merely going through the outward motions of circumcision/following the law, but failing to cultivate the law in their hearts isn’t sufficient to bring salvation to the Jews. So like the whitewashed tombs— it’s what’s inside that counts more than exterior signs of allegiance or empty words.

So, it’s not that the Jews aren’t “circumcised in the heart” because they “don’t believe in Jesus”. But it’s that people who preach against stealing steal, and it’s that people who tell others not to commit adultery go off and commit adultery. And when that happens, the outward signs of piety don’t matter-- because they’re not practicing what they preach.

 

[curious_cath]

First of all, Jesus declared Himself God, and the Apostles did the same.

Paul did not seem to know this! Also:

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. (…) 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah. (Matt 16)

It has not been a common knowledge at that time yet, even among the Jews who turned into Christians.

 

[midori]

Paul was publicly preaching that Jesus was the Son of God from Day 1, once he transferred to Team Jesus.

17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

Saul in Damascus and Jerusalem
Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. 20 At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. 21 All those who heard him were astonished and asked, “Isn’t he the man who raised havoc in Jerusalem among those who call on this name? And hasn’t he come here to take them as prisoners to the chief priests?” 22 Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah.

 

[artortega]

What about the Jews that reject Jesus Christ as their messiah.

 

[midori]

What about them?

That’s what part of Acts is about-- the process by which early Christianity spread beyond the boundaries of Judaism, into something that was meant for humanity. And Paul got frustrated by not being able to convince everyone–Jews and Greeks alike-- which was why, after a bit, he went and preached to the gentiles specifically.

But even right after saying, “I’m gonna go preach to the Gentiles” in Corinth in Acts 18, you still have him visiting the synagogue in Ephesus when he goes there. So he-- and others-- are still straddling the two worlds, even though his/their focus is elsewhere.

 

[curious_cath]

Paul was publicly preaching that Jesus was the Son of God

Yes, that is true, But was the Son of God one and the same as God for Paul? He says:

“The Son is the image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15)

Paul had no explicit concept of a triunite God, the Holy Trinity, which is the true place of Jesus as the 2nd person of God.