Is same-sex romantic attraction sinful?

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Soldier_Of_God said:
It’s my understanding the word “disordered” not is intending to convey some form of medical assessment but is used in the context of how homosexuality is not in alignment with the procreation and life generation process. As for discrimination, what discrimination policies are you referring to?
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Saying I can’t be a coach or a teacher…
 
It’s on the Courage website somewhere…

Look I can understand the priesthood but really this?
 
robbie20 said:
Saying I can’t be a coach or a teacher…
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Because you are homosexual?

That’s not Church teaching.

You wouldn’t be able to be a teacher in a Catholic school if you were living an active homosexual lifestyle. But that’s the same for anyone living a public life that is not in keeping with Church teaching. It has to do with not being able to teach something you aren’t living but nothing to do with being homosexual.

Never heard the one about coaching. 🤷
 
robbie20 said:
Whoaman what happened to Christian charity? 🤷

No need to be bitter 😦
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Stop reading what I may or may not be feeling into my posts. You’ll end up being very wrong. And calling a spade a spade does not mean Christian charity has flown out the window neither.

I’m only asking for authentication of what it is you are asserting.
 
John21652 said:
Stop reading what I may or may not be feeling into my posts. You’ll end up being very wrong. And calling a spade a spade does not mean Christian charity has flown out the window neither.

I’m only asking for authentication of what it is you are asserting.
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My apologies John see my response in my PM it’s alot more reasonable…

And try to be so aggressive (for lack of a better term) while your Apolegetics style is admirable not every Christian wants their post called pathetic… Its a little too strong for my tastes and kind of hurt my feelings. 😦
 
Kolbe, you said this:
Kolbe300 said:
How many times must gay Catholics say, “just because I use the word gay doesn’t mean I support the ‘gay culture’ or ‘agenda’” before people will believe that? Here is a FACT: lots of people who identify as gay do not support gay culture or participate in homosexual activity. That is a FACT.
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I asked you to prove your fact, which you are adamantly maintaining.

You responded with:
Kolbe300 said:
How many self-identified, gay, celibate Christians need there be for us to stop assuming things when we hear the word gay? Ten? A million? One? Do I have to prove that I’m not the only one before people will stop making assumptions?
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please note that you state as FACT: lots of people and then when challenged, you respond with how many does there need to be?
 
robbie20 said:
My apologies John see my response in my PM it’s alot more reasonable…

And try to be so aggressive (for lack of a better term) while your Apolegetics style is admirable not every Christian wants their post called pathetic… Its a little too strong for my tastes and kind of hurt my feelings. 😦
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OK Robbie!

Now, you have a couple of questions to answer. 😉
 
michelleds said:
Kolbe, you said this:

I asked you to prove your fact, which you are adamantly maintaining.

You responded with:

please note that you state as FACT: lots of people and then when challenged, you respond with how many does there need to be?
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Michelle I am a celibate Catholic who identifies as gay 🙂
 
Kolbe300 said:
Thank you, but I really do get the crux of what Michelle is telling me. I just don’t agree with it. The crux of what I’m saying (and most are disagreeing with) is to stop assuming things about people because of one word.

Again, I appreciate the warning. However, I never intorduce myself as gay. I don’t ever talk about unless it has something to do with the conversation. And when I’ve had to, for whatever it’s worth, it looked nothing like your example above. It’s really quite easy since people don’t usually make assumptions until they know better. (I’m speaking about the non-internet world there).
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The thing is Kolbe, the ‘gay’ lobby has hijacked the word to become an aphorism for a much wider definition of homosexuality. We have gay nightclubs, gay parades, gay culture, gay literature and a whole lot of other ‘gay’ stuff. A lot of it is ‘in your face’ and annoying, if not grossly insulting. Now, when individuals describe themselves as ‘gay’, they are labelling themselves as something more than just someone who is attracted to the same sex. They are percieved as announcing themselves as being out and proud and a part of the ‘gay culture’, even if that’s not what they are intending. Blame the activists for it. People are generally sick of it too.
 
michelleds said:
I asked you to prove your fact, which you are adamantly maintaining.

please note that you state as FACT: lots of people and then when challenged, you respond with how many does there need to be?
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That’s exactly right. You said prove it, and I said how many do you need for it to be proven? Remember the context here, we’re talking about making assumptions. How many have to be out there for us to stop making assumptions? I would really love to hear an answer to that question. I know just a handful of gay, celibate Catholics personally. 100% of them identify as gay. I have met LOTS more from internet forums. You tell me how many is “lots” to you and I’ll go count them for you. Had I known I should have been counting them all these years, I would have done it.
John21652 said:
The thing is Kolbe, the ‘gay’ lobby has hijacked the word to become an aphorism for a much wider definition of homosexuality. We have gay nightclubs, gay parades, gay culture, gay literature and a whole lot of other ‘gay’ stuff.
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I’m talking about the word gay. You say the word is hijacked, fair enough. But I say it hasn’t been hijacked from everyone. Notice that everytime you used the word “gay” it’s followed by other “stuff.” Nightclubs, parades, culture, literature. All I’m saying is when someone says the words “I’m gay”, we shouldn’t assume things about their behavior or their culture.
A lot of it is ‘in your face’ and annoying, if not grossly insulting.
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I agree. And just as annoying and insulting is to assume the sinfulness of a person because a word has been “hijacked.” If we know the word’s been hijacked, why in the world would we assume the hijacked meaning?
Now, when individuals describe themselves as ‘gay’, they are labelling themselves as something more than just someone who is attracted to the same sex.
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Not all of them, that’s the point.
They are percieved as announcing themselves as being out and proud and a part of the ‘gay culture’, even if that’s not what they are intending. Blame the activists for it.
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That is a great idea. I officially blame the activists for it. Now, can we stop making assumptions about people?
 
Kolbe300 said:
That’s exactly right. You said prove it, and I said how many do you need for it to be proven? Remember the context here, we’re talking about making assumptions. How many have to be out there for us to stop making assumptions? I would really love to hear an answer to that question. I know just a handful of gay, celibate Catholics personally. 100% of them identify as gay. I have met LOTS more from internet forums. You tell me how many is “lots” to you and I’ll go count them for you. Had I known I should have been counting them all these years, I would have done it.

I’m talking about the word gay. You say the word is hijacked, fair enough. But I say it hasn’t been hijacked from everyone. Notice that everytime you used the word “gay” it’s followed by other “stuff.” Nightclubs, parades, culture, literature. All I’m saying is when someone says the words “I’m gay”, we shouldn’t assume things about their behavior or their culture.

I agree. And just as annoying and insulting is to assume the sinfulness of a person because a word has been “hijacked.” If we know the word’s been hijacked, why in the world would we assume the hijacked meaning?

Not all of them, that’s the point.

That is a great idea. I officially blame the activists for it. Now, can we stop making assumptions about people?
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I like this guy! He makes sense…

Catholics can call it homosexual inclinations, SSA all they want… If I choose to idenfify as gay that’s my choice…

I’m celibate and that’s all the Church needs to hear… Doesn’t say anything about calling yourself gay (although there seems to be alot of pressure and stigma not to) but if me calling myself “gay” really bothers you that much that I’m shoving it in your face then you need a new lesson on loving thy neighbor…

I’m celibate according to the Church’s teachings and that should be enough… If my effiminate sissy ways of dressing and high pitch voice and lack of masculinity bother you… Then that’s to bad… :cool:
 
robbie20 said:
I like this guy! He makes sense…

Catholics can call it homosexual inclinations, SSA all they want… If I choose to idenfify as gay that’s my choice…

I’m celibate and that’s all the Church needs to hear… Doesn’t say anything about calling yourself gay (although there seems to be alot of pressure and stigma not to) but if me calling myself “gay” really bothers you that much that I’m shoving it in your face then you need a new lesson on loving thy neighbor…

I’m celibate according to the Church’s teachings and that should be enough… If my effiminate sissy ways of dressing and high pitch voice and lack of masculinity bother you… Then that’s to bad… :cool:
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Awww Robbie, now you’re hurting my feelings. :o
 
Kolbe300 said:
How many self-identified, gay, celibate Christians need there be for us to stop assuming things when we hear the word gay? Ten? A million? One? Do I have to prove that I’m not the only one before people will stop making assumptions?
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I would be upset, too, Kolbe, so if I were in your “group” of like-mindeds, I would insist on a new self-identification which the gay secular culture would want no part of, because I would so not want there to be any ambiguity, or innuendo, about where I stood. I would seize a new name for “my” group to indicate just that.

(Actually, as I’ve explained before, I simply would not identify, via an ambiguous name, with any group whose activities, goals, and public image were contrary to the way I chose to live my life. But what I’m saying is, if one is insiisting on identifying with a definition that implies “active,” when one is in fact “dormant,” then I would choose to differentiate myself so that would no longer be a problem.)
 
Elizabeth502 said:
I would be upset, too, Kolbe, so if I were in your “group” of like-mindeds, I would insist on a new self-identification which the gay secular culture would want no part of, because I would so not want there to be any ambiguity, or innuendo, about where I stood. I would seize a new name for “my” group to indicate just that.

(Actually, as I’ve explained before, I simply would not identify, via an ambiguous name, with any group whose activities, goals, and public image were contrary to the way I chose to live my life. But what I’m saying is, if one is insiisting on identifying with a definition that implies “active,” when one is in fact “dormant,” then I would choose to differentiate myself so that would no longer be a problem.)
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I’m glad you posted that because it really made me stop and think. While I appreciate the advice, Elizabeth, I hope you’ll forgive me if I don’t follow it. You see, what bothers me isn’t being associated with a culture. What bothers me is when people assume things they cannot know, especially when their assumptions could be wrong. And they know it could be wrong. That’s what bothers me.

I honestly don’t mind being associated with a group of people that others don’t like or find disgusting. That’s why I’ve said a few times that if people make an assumption about me, so be it. It’s their problem, not mine. I just think they should stop doing it because it is, quite frankly, stupid and unfair. I do my best to look for the goodness in people because all people deserve that. There are a lot of really beautiful people in the gay culture that so many will do anything to avoid and distance themselves from. Why would I choose a new name for my “group of like-mindeds” in order to distance myself from the very people who I just might be able to help? I’ve always believed that a gay man who lives Catholic teaching, and isn’t afraid to admit to either, could be an example to folks out there who may be right on the edge, waiting for someone they can identify with. I still believe that.

I am a Catholic man who just happens to be gay. I am ashamed of neither of those, and I have tremendous empathy and love for those in the gay culture. People here are free to do as they wish, and from the looks of this discussion, many will go on making assumptions about people they shouldn’t make. So be it. I give up on trying to change that.

Thank you again for your post, it really made me think. And though I know it probably wasn’t your intent, I’ll never call myself SSA again. What good would that do for the people who really need it, the ones I should be reaching out to and not running from?
 
In Christian charity are we not required to assume the best about someone until the prove us otherwise. I would identify myself as gay, but use the term SSA here since a lot on this site know what that means. I find it a bit offensive that someone would immediately assume that I am a rainbow flag waving gay rights supporter who is looking to seduce every one I can, if I use the term gay. Wouldn’t it be equally uncharitable to assume that every heterosexual couple must be fornicating? Or that every married couple is using artificial birth control?

People who are SSA / Gay are obliviously a very diverse group. Some are leading their lives in harmony with Church teachings and have found peace. Some are hanging on simply by God’s grace, still others have embraced the gay lifestyle and everything it offers.

I have seen it written various times that we are more than our sexual orientation. I agree with this. I think we do have to admit our sexual orientations have a huge impact on our lives and are a big part of us. Saying that I am gay is only describing a part of me, a single attribute. Just as if I identify as white or black, etc. I might identify as a American, this does not mean that this defines me totally.
 
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