meltzerboy
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This is a question I just posed in another thread about Satan but I thought it was perhaps worthy of its own. What is the Catholic perspective on this?
Is Satan granted complete dominion in hell or does G-d still control Satan's actions?
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bzkoss236
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God does not control the actions of Satan or any of the angels, fallen or not. They had a choice as to who they would serve. The fallen angels didn’t choose God. God doesn’t control their actions, it is just the heavenly angels obey Him. Now, God still has power over Satan, as his creator, but like with us, God allows us our free will to exercise as we choose.
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anjoh66
Guest
Satan is not granted any dominion at all since hell is a punishment for him as well as for all else who end up there.
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vames
Guest
I really can’t understand the transformation of the concept of Satan, from the original accuser of man, aide and servant of God (ha-Satan) to the kind of quasi-deity that fights against God up to the point of being equal or stronger than his Creator. I’m thinking even about the embarrassing stories about failed exorcisms, like the latest one from the Vatican, where the boss exorcist allegedly couldn’t defeat the alleged 4 demons (4, no less).
I remember I once saw a site about the Jewish faith where they say that Christians are in fact dualists and polytheists, because they attribute too much power to Satan the Evil One, enemy of God the Good One. I myself can’t see how a place, entity, time or process can truly be outside God’s control, will and presence, as long as we still want to claim God’s omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience. But that’s just me.
I remember I once saw a site about the Jewish faith where they say that Christians are in fact dualists and polytheists, because they attribute too much power to Satan the Evil One, enemy of God the Good One. I myself can’t see how a place, entity, time or process can truly be outside God’s control, will and presence, as long as we still want to claim God’s omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience. But that’s just me.
meltzerboy
New member
With regard to your question about the transformation, it must have something to do with Satan’s tempting Jesus and what Jesus and the Apostles said about Satan. It is a switch from the Jewish understanding of Satan and the angels in general, who are not supposed to have free will. BTW, Islam picked up on the demonic nature of Satan as well. Regardless, I was interested in the Catholic viewpoint in this thread.
Jews are quite reluctant to attribute that much power to Satan; that much is true. However, the Jewish site that called Christians dualists and polytheists is wrong since they do not worship Satan, no matter how much power he may be believed to have.
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DavidFilmer
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I think it has more to do with Hollywood.
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kaninswordma
Guest
But from what I heard from some bishops they said satan actually is part of god so satan cannot be destroyed even if he is part of god’s creation he still has power which has once caused a war in heaven,so god even more powerful then him;however,god does fear satan a little…but yeah no satan does not have complete dominate of hell even though he rules it but not directly but he controls the demons over there.Also am not sure about this but in some bibles it’s written that god is 99% full of goodness the remaning 1% of him is a bit evil so that is how satan was created.
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Robert_Sock
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Again from the Tanya, it is said that God’s plan is to eventually save all the souls from Hell. This, if true, would severely limit Satan dominion over Hell. And BTW, it is also stated that the sin of Adam and Eve was intended as an eventual blessing in that it would lift souls higher than was previously possible.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Can you please reference those bishops? I was always taught that God created all the angels, so that would mean that they are not a part of God.
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Robert_Sock
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My guess is that this was never addressed by Holy Mother Church, at least not in the official doctrine. I too would like to know what the Church actually teaches on this matter.
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bsroufek
Guest
To answer the OP, we have the story of Job. Satan demanded power over Job, which God granted but limited it, saying do not touch his life.
Satan has power to tempt, we know this, and he and his demons have some power to obsess and possess people.
But we can drive them out, sometimes needing prayer and fasting to do so.
Come to think of it, the best we have on Satan’s dominion in Hell is St. Faustina’s vision of Hell, which you can look up online as I did. As I recall, she said that there were seven evils of Hell, one of which was having to dwell in Satan’s presence forever. His very presence is a suffering.
On the other hand, the souls being tormented in Hell seemed to be tormented not by Satan himself, but independently as it were. The punishments are divinely ordered, from what I understand, not ordered by Satan.
So, I would say that God is in control of Hell, not Satan.
Satan has power to tempt, we know this, and he and his demons have some power to obsess and possess people.
But we can drive them out, sometimes needing prayer and fasting to do so.
Come to think of it, the best we have on Satan’s dominion in Hell is St. Faustina’s vision of Hell, which you can look up online as I did. As I recall, she said that there were seven evils of Hell, one of which was having to dwell in Satan’s presence forever. His very presence is a suffering.
On the other hand, the souls being tormented in Hell seemed to be tormented not by Satan himself, but independently as it were. The punishments are divinely ordered, from what I understand, not ordered by Satan.
So, I would say that God is in control of Hell, not Satan.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
I was going to use Job as a part of my answer too, but then I erased it because it really deals with earthy torment, and not Hell per se. I also noted to myself, after one of my posts, that the OP asks about the the Churches teaching on the subject. I then reached the conclusion that the Church probably does not have an authoritative teaching on the subject. But I personally feel the way that you do; that Satan does not have dominion over Hell.
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Robert_Sock
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I believe the Church would say that because God controls the holy angels, He also has control over the fallen angels, including Satan.
Just as an aside, the Tanya teaches that the earth was once ruled only by evil, but it could not sustain itself, so God introduced His attribute of mercy.
Just as an aside, the Tanya teaches that the earth was once ruled only by evil, but it could not sustain itself, so God introduced His attribute of mercy.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
I completely forgot about Isaiah 45:7:
“I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.” (Douay-Rheims)
If God created evil, then He surely has control over it. Although it does not necessarily reflect the Churches official teaching on the matter, it is biblical, and probably would need to be considered by Holy Mother Church. Hope this helps.
“I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.” (Douay-Rheims)
If God created evil, then He surely has control over it. Although it does not necessarily reflect the Churches official teaching on the matter, it is biblical, and probably would need to be considered by Holy Mother Church. Hope this helps.
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The_Serpent
Guest
If the fallen angels still observe their old hierarchical order, then Satan might have a limited dominion in hell. Since he once had high rank. Also if some fallen angels have different capabilities, you might have a order from bullying from top to bottom. 
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cornbread_r2
Guest
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”
As God is omniscient, it would seem that God has always known what Satanic activities would be permitted – even before Satan was created.
If Satan can’t do anything that hasn’t been permitted, then I don’t see how Satan is in control of anything.
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”
As God is omniscient, it would seem that God has always known what Satanic activities would be permitted – even before Satan was created.
If Satan can’t do anything that hasn’t been permitted, then I don’t see how Satan is in control of anything.
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pacloc
Guest
This from St. Thomas Aquinas is the most helpful thing I have ever read about the subject:
newadvent.org/summa/1114.htm
link to site:
newadvent.org/summa/1114.htm
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Michael_Allen
Guest
Hi meltzerboy
I believe everything is ultimately under G-d’s sovereignty. There must, I believe, even purpose in evil otherwise why would an all-loving and all-powerful God permit it?
I would very much appreciate hearing your Jewish thoughts on the following from Isaiah…
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, ‘My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’.
G-d bless,
Michael
I believe everything is ultimately under G-d’s sovereignty. There must, I believe, even purpose in evil otherwise why would an all-loving and all-powerful God permit it?
I would very much appreciate hearing your Jewish thoughts on the following from Isaiah…
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, ‘My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’.
G-d bless,
Michael
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Michael_Allen
Guest
Yes, “O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam, which gained for us so great a Redeemer!” as the Exultet proclaims.
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