Is Satan Smart?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gilbert_Keith
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Gilbert_Keith

Guest
Here is an exchange I posted in another thread, which may deserve its own thread. Any thoughts?
*Satan is very smart my friend.

*If Satan is so smart, what’s he doing in Hell?

It’s not that Satan is so smart. It’s that we, like Satan, are willing to be so dumb.
What would be your favorite insight along this line from C.S. Lewis’ Screwtape Letters?
 
Satan is more proud than smart in my opinion. His pride has ruled over his intellect. Thus he is dumb for choosing ruling hell over serving in Heaven. But he is definitely intellectual with the absence of goodness–a combination that on earth ends up to be your friendly neighborhood psychopath. :bigyikes: Since satan is described as subtle in the bible (Genesis 3) I looked up that word in the dictionary. Here are some of the definitions of that word that definitely fit satan.
  1. requiring mental acuteness, penetration, or discernment: a subtle philosophy.
  2. characterized by mental acuteness or penetration: a subtle understanding.
  3. cunning, wily, or crafty: a subtle liar.
  4. insidious in operation: subtle poison.
  5. skillful, clever, or ingenious: a subtle painter.
Although we can’t really describe his "smarts’ I think that this fits him pretty well.
 
He fell because of pride, not stupidity. Pride, malice, and cleverness are a dangerous combination.
 
Any being as old as the Earth or older may tend to have a bit of intellect.

-D
 
What does age have to do with intellect?

I’ve known plenty of old fools in my lifetime … including myself.
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
What does age have to do with intellect?

I’ve known plenty of old fools in my lifetime … including myself.
Click to expand...
Correct me if I’m wrong. Is this the same Satan that was born eternal and was the most powerful and beatiful of the angels? Is this the same Satan that challenged Gods throne and was cast from heaven? Or the same Satan who is the direct enemy of God who had an audience with God in the book of Job? Is it the same Satan who tempted Jesus to jump off a cliff? I wonder how many Catholic exorcists feel that Satan is a moron?

Comparing a human to the devil is like apples and oranges. We are not at war with a moron, and we should never underestimate the power of the Devil who can appear as an angel of light. Just my :twocents: .

-D
 
Demons (including Satan) are angels, albiet fallen ones. Here is what the Catechism says about them:
330 As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.
Click to expand...
To see what Thomas Aquinas says about the intelligence of angels, go here:

ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP054.html#FPQ54OUTP1

I think Satan would be very happy to have us believe he is some kind of hapless buffoon.
 
Darrel

*Comparing a human to the devil is like apples and oranges. We are not at war with a moron, and we should never underestimate the power of the Devil who can appear as an angel of light. Just my :twocents: .
*
A fair point.

Yet in the Psalms we are told, “The fool in his heart says there is no God.”

Wouldn’t one be just as much the fool if one rebels against God as Satan did, not by denying God’s existence, but by lying to himself that he should no longer serve such a God?

And if Satan is, as Christ called him, the Father of Lies, whom has he lied to, whom has he fooled … but himself most of all?

And if we are smart enough to get to heaven, and Satan was dumb enough to get stuck in hell … I feel very comfortable comparing our intelligence to his and arguing that Satan’s great intellect has been truly darkened by his greed for consuming the souls of humanity.

I’m not saying Satan is not a clever Trickster. Oh yes, he truly is. But only if we allow him to be … only if we prefer his tricks to Christ’s treats.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon4.gif
 
Gilbert Keith,

I would say that Satan is indeed smart, smarter than I am, but that he is blinded in some areas. My favorite insight along this line from Screwtape Letters would be from the introduction: “There is wishful thinking in Hell as well as on Earth.”
  • Liberian
 
In Rabbinical traditions, Lucifer was the most important spirit standing by the throne of God and had 12 wings, twice the number as the Seraphim (Rabbi Eliezer). As Father Amorth said in his ‘more stories from an Exorcist’ 'book, (paraphrased) “of all lucifer’s names… red dragon, satan, devil, beelzebub and ancient serpent… the most fitting name for the old fool is ‘blasphemy’… at his core, his choice was to blashpheme God’s holy name.”
That is not a measure of his intelligence, but of his pride.
He may be smarter than any human that has ever lived, but like the miser that stores his gold and loses his soul… the devil has intelligence but has lost the presence of God forever. We have the Grace of God, he has little time left. So he may be more intelligent, but i think we’re only smarter by the Grace of God, for we haven’t rejected God like he chose.
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
Darrel

*Comparing a human to the devil is like apples and oranges. We are not at war with a moron, and we should never underestimate the power of the Devil who can appear as an angel of light. Just my :twocents: .
*
A fair point.

Yet in the Psalms we are told, “The fool in his heart says there is no God.”

Wouldn’t one be just as much the fool if one rebels against God as Satan did, not by denying God’s existence, but by lying to himself that he should no longer serve such a God?

And if Satan is, as Christ called him, the Father of Lies, whom has he lied to, whom has he fooled … but himself most of all?

And if we are smart enough to get to heaven, and Satan was dumb enough to get stuck in hell … I feel very comfortable comparing our intelligence to his and arguing that Satan’s great intellect has been truly darkened by his greed for consuming the souls of humanity.

I’m not saying Satan is not a clever Trickster. Oh yes, he truly is. But only if we allow him to be … only if we prefer his tricks to Christ’s treats.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon4.gif
Click to expand...
I think you are basically right, except that you are confusing *intelligence *with wisdom. A person who is very intelligent, can still be a fool – any number of artists, college professors and politicians can prove this. That fact that Satan’s intelligence has been darkened, as you say, does not make him less intelligent than us. He may be the greater fool for it and lack the wisdom of God, but he’s our intellectual superior in every way. That’s why when we combat him, we can’t match wits, but with our resources of God’s true wisdom and grace, we’ve got him beat in spades.

**Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen. **
 
Fidelis

**I think you are basically right, except that you are confusing intelligence with wisdom.

I’m a great believer in the difference between the two. For example: Einstein was **intelligent **enough to know that an atomic bomb could be built and used with great effect. But he was not wise enough to see the enormous danger ahead that would plague the human race when he urged FDR to build the bomb.

He admitted so himself when he said that if he had foreseen the horrible destruction at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, he would have chosen instead to be a watchmaker.

It’s a well known fact that Einstein did not have Christ as his role model, and therefore was not particularly filled with the gifts of the Holy Spirit … Wisdom most of all.
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
Darrel

Comparing a human to the devil is like apples and oranges. We are not at war with a moron, and we should never underestimate the power of the Devil who can appear as an angel of light. Just my :twocents: .

A fair point.

Yet in the Psalms we are told, “The fool in his heart says there is no God.”

Wouldn’t one be just as much the fool if one rebels against God as Satan did, not by denying God’s existence, but by lying to himself that he should no longer serve such a God?

And if Satan is, as Christ called him, the Father of Lies, whom has he lied to, whom has he fooled … but himself most of all?

And if we are smart enough to get to heaven, and Satan was dumb enough to get stuck in hell … I feel very comfortable comparing our intelligence to his and arguing that Satan’s great intellect has been truly darkened by his greed for consuming the souls of humanity.

I’m not saying Satan is not a clever Trickster. Oh yes, he truly is. But only if we allow him to be … only if we prefer his tricks to Christ’s treats.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon4.gif
Click to expand...
I see a trend in this thread to talk about the devil himself as if he is a human being. The devil is not “that silly old trickster”. When people in the bible have come into contact with angels it was not some regular old human being. People are usualy so overpowered by there mere presence that they simply fall on the ground as dead.

I see some big assumptions here about the devils intellect being dulled by his sinful nature. I would need to see some scripture or Church teachings to back that up. Maybe the Devil wants to be underestimated. He is not some bad guy from the movies. Just take a look at history for a minute and put him in perspective.

-D
 
Darrel

Maybe the Devil wants to be underestimated

I’m not aware that traditional literature on the subject underestimates the craftiness of the Devil. What it does tend to do is to show that the Devil is not so brilliant as he thinks he is. This is certainly consistent with Catholic teaching. No where that I know of does the Church teach that Satan as a fallen angel (and therefore now a demon) is truly intelligent or wise. Rather, the Church does acknowledge that he is, as Christ said, the father of lies, and a murderer to boot. That is why Satan is so dangerous … because he finds us willing to believe his lies, not because his lies are so intelligent and believable. And we know from Scripture that in spite of his high opinion of himself, in the end he is the loser … big time.

So Darrel, what would be your estimate of Satan’s craftiness? Or perhaps this is the better question to ask:

Which of Satan’s lies do you think he chooses to tell most often because he thinks it will have the greatest damning effect on the fate of our immortal souls?
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
Darrel

Maybe the Devil wants to be underestimated

I’m not aware that traditional literature on the subject underestimates the craftiness of the Devil. What it does tend to do is to show that the Devil is not so brilliant as he thinks he is. This is certainly consistent with Catholic teaching. No where that I know of does the Church teach that Satan as a fallen angel (and therefore now a demon) is truly intelligent or wise. Rather, the Church does acknowledge that he is, as Christ said, the father of lies, and a murderer to boot. That is why Satan is so dangerous … because he finds us willing to believe his lies, not because his lies are so intelligent and believable. And we know from Scripture that in spite of his high opinion of himself, in the end he is the loser … big time.

So Darrel, what would be your estimate of Satan’s craftiness? Or perhaps this is the better question to ask:

Which of Satan’s lies do you think he chooses to tell most often because he thinks it will have the greatest damning effect on the fate of our immortal souls?
Click to expand...
You say in the above quote that the devil is crafty yet he is not so brilliant.

According to Websters dictionary the Word crafty is defined as (Cunning,Whily)

Definition of Cunning- (ingenious; sly; designing; subtle)
Definition of Whily- (Crafty; sly)

Crafty by definition is ingenious let alone brilliant.

Here are a few of Satans brilliant deceptions/lies in answering your question.
  1. That he does not exist
  2. Moral Relativism
  3. Abortion is an exceptable means of self preservation to have “a life”.
  4. Contraception is just fine.
  5. Sola Scripture IE: Christs Church is not the authority and the bible is.
  6. Muhammed is a real prophet and Christ is not God but is also a mere prophet.
  7. Deification of science and atheism, along with it’s connected secularism.
I’m sure there are hundreds more. The main point is that all of these deceptions can not come from an idiot. I think we need to remember that the devil compaired to a human is an incredible evil genious that can only be discerned or resisted by grace that can only come from God. To fight Satan on our own without God is like one ant against one T-Rex. That difference applies to both power and intellect. Without God the devil would role right over us.

-D
 
Darrel

To fight Satan on our own without God is like one ant against one T-Rex. That difference applies to both power and intellect. Without God the devil would role right over us.

But then we never are without God, are we? Unless we repudiate God. Which is why I think your #7 should be your #1.

The rise of atheism is the principle objective of Satan … Satan wants us to believe that we have no ally in God. Having divided us from God, he can, as you say, *role right over us. *If there is no God, there also is no devil, and so we cannot know our enemy and prepare ouselves against him.
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
No where that I know of does the Church teach that Satan as a fallen angel (and therefore now a demon) is truly intelligent or wise.
Click to expand...
Actually, in the Catechism quote I provided above, the Church has taught that the angels (including Satan), have perfections (of which intelligence is one) that far exceeds our own.
330 As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.
Click to expand...
Satan did not cease becoming an angel when he fell, since “angel” is the word we use of those creatures that possess an entirely spiritual nature. The term “demon” is only used to differentiate the Good angels from the Bad – they are all still angels.
**THE FALL OF THE ANGELS **
Click to expand...
391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”. The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: “The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing.”
Click to expand...
392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels. This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: “You will be like God.” The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.
Click to expand...
393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. “There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death.”
Click to expand...
394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father. “The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.” In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.
Click to expand...
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”
Click to expand...
There is, in fact, nothing in Church teaching that says Satan LOST his superior angelic intelligence as a result of his fall, only that it became a vehicle of hate, rather than love. If anything, it makes him all the more dangerous.
 
Satan is a giant doofus. It’s only because we’re so stupid (call it concupiscence) that he gets anything done; he has to prey on those too ignorant to know his pack of lies when they see them. What a bumbling schmuck. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray.

God Bless,
RyanL

P.S.,
Because of his pride, there’s nothing Satan hates more than to be mocked. In that way he’s very much like a preening narcissistic teenage girl. That’s all the respect he’s gonna’ get from this member of the Church Militant.
 
Fidelis

Actually, in the Catechism quote I provided above, the Church has taught that the angels (including Satan), have perfections (of which intelligence is one) that far exceeds our own.

I suppose you are referring to your post # 7.

*330 As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness. *

So you think Satan is “surpassing in perfection”?

I doubt it. Write me up for a heretic if I have to believe that!
 
Fidelis

There is, in fact, nothing in Church teaching that says Satan LOST his superior angelic intelligence as a result of his fall,

Nor, in fact, is there anything in Church teaching that says he kept his superior angelic intelligence as a result of the fall … just as humans did not keep their innocence after the fall.

Did Lucifer show loss of wisdom after his fall? But if you lose wisdom, don’t you also lose intelligence? What are the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Among them … wisdom, understanding (intelligence) and knowledge. Didn’t Lucifer lose these gifts when he became Satan?

Show me how Satan exemplifies continued possession of the Holy Spirit’s gifts of wisdom and understanding (intelligence) in the same way that MIchael the Archangel possessed them.

Or just this: show in what way you think Satan continues to be what you laughingly call the brightest “angel” ever created.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top