Is Satan technically a Christian?

[Brendan]

They’d still have faith in God, though, wouldn’t they? Obviously they (and Satan) would have the knowledge that he exists, but it would be their faith in him as the ultimate benefactor which would drive them to his cause (which Satan wouldn’t have)

No, we have Faith in God because we do not see Him. The angels and saints see Him and know Him. That is why Aquinas noted that the virtue of Faith does not exist in Heaven.

We have knowlege of God, we even have certitude about God, that God will grant us the Grace of Salvation. That is Faith. Faith and Knowledge are certainly compatably, really necessary for each other. But knowledge differs from Faith in that we are certain God exists, we have yet to see Him.

Once we see Him, we have no need of Faith. We have no need of Hope. All has been achieved, so there remains only God. And since God is by Nature, Love, Love is the only virtue that remains in Heaven.

 

[Mystic_Banana]

No, we have Faith in God because we do not see Him. The angels and saints see Him and know Him. That is why Aquinas noted that the virtue of Faith does not exist in Heaven.

We have knowlege of God, we even have certitude about God, that God will grant us the Grace of Salvation. That is Faith. Faith and Knowledge are certainly compatably, really necessary for each other. But knowledge differs from Faith in that we are certain God exists, we have yet to see Him.

Once we see Him, we have no need of Faith. We have no need of Hope. All has been achieved, so there remains only God. And since God is by Nature, Love, Love is the only virtue that remains in Heaven.

Which seems a bit odd, applied to my statement. It would mean that the Angels and Saints barely think - according to your version, Satan must have been absolutely insane, presumably knowing the nature of God, knowing absolutely and perfectly that following and serving God is what is to do, knowing there is no good or reason to go elsewhere, but doing it anyway…hmm, well, maybe… although that faith denying knowledge would presumably calm even the insane…

How do you account for Satan at all?

 

[Andrea22]

i understand satan is pure evil and such, but i realized something while i was out jogging; a christian is someone who believes in god and believes jesus is the son of god. Satan believes this, so does this technically make him a christian? I know he can never go to heaven because of his actions, but think about it.

hell no

 

[Brendan]

Which seems a bit odd, applied to my statement. It would mean that the Angels and Saints barely think - according to your version,

No, what it means is that the Angels and Saints have already experienced what we have Faith would happen.

If you had already crossed a bridge, and someone came up to you and asked, “Do you have faith that the bridge will hold you at least once”. The answer you would have to give would not from faith ( an expectation the bridge would hold you) but from certitude (the bridge already held me).

It might be a matter of faith if you though about the bridge holding you for another crossing, but it would not be faith to say the bridge could hold you at least once.

Satan must have been absolutely insane, presumably knowing the nature of God, knowing absolutely and perfectly that following and serving God is what is to do, knowing there is no good or reason to go elsewhere, but doing it anyway…hmm, well, maybe… although that faith denying knowledge would presumably calm even the insane…

How do you account for Satan at all?

Well, but that definition, any sin at all is ‘insane’. We do know the Nature of God ( knowledge is different from Faith), yet we often choose to sin.

In the case of the angels, each was given a single choice. To serve God or not. Some, such as Lucifer, chose not to serve, but rather to be served.

 

[Mystic_Banana]

No, what it means is that the Angels and Saints have already experienced what we have Faith would happen.

If you had already crossed a bridge, and someone came up to you and asked, “Do you have faith that the bridge will hold you at least once”. The answer you would have to give would not from faith ( an expectation the bridge would hold you) but from certitude (the bridge already held me).

It might be a matter of faith if you though about the bridge holding you for another crossing, but it would not be faith to say the bridge could hold you at least once.

Well, but that definition, any sin at all is ‘insane’. We do know the Nature of God ( knowledge is different from Faith), yet we often choose to sin.

In the case of the angels, each was given a single choice. To serve God or not. Some, such as Lucifer, chose not to serve, but rather to be served.

Do we know the nature of God? Absolutely? I don’t think so… surely that is a part of what have faith that we understand?

Yes - but why not? If there is no faith in heaven, and Lucifer had absolute knowledge, he’s an awful lot less clever than he’s represented, in order to refuse God. Why would the others serve? Wisdom? Why not partly faith? Are St. Thomas Aquinas’s theories Dogma?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I understand Satan is pure evil and such, but I realized something while I was out jogging; A Christian is someone who believes in God and believes Jesus is the Son of God. Satan believes this, so does this technically make him a Christian? I know he can never go to Heaven because of his actions, but think about it.

Off topic a bit, but I know of a certain pastor who tells lies and conspires against members of his own denomination. I found out from a certain psychiatrist that he had treated 8 pastors of that certain denomination for stress related breakdown, and in every case this particular bloke was named as the main cause, being moderator at the time. He would use backstabbling and conspiracy as the weapon. I suspect he had a role in wrecking my own career at one stage.

Yet I have no doubt whatsoever he believes in Christ, Christ’s saving work, and he would particularly believe he is one of the Elect (I think he’s in for a terrible shock the day he dies frankly). My own old pastor’s opinion of him was “He tells a lot of lies” and “I think he serves the devil. He believes he serves God, but he serves the devil. It’s a terrible situation to be in.” Personally my own sympathy is practically non-existent. If he’s so stupid he doesn’t know lying and conspiring are sins, then that’s his problem. He’s got no problem deliberately wrecking the lives of others - I think there’s a judgment waiting for him.

The old pastor also said, “I think he’ll get hold of this church after I’m gone (died), and wreck it. But he can’t touch the people”. He did indeed get hold of it and wreck it, an inner-city church which the old pastor built up over eleven years. In six months, the great majority of the people left, so he couldn’t touch them.

Just taking the name “Christian” doesn’t mean that one will act like a Christian. Satan believes full well in Christ’s saving sacrifice, and does everything he can to deny it. And there are a few humans who act in pretty much the same way. And some of them are in high places.

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Off topic a bit, but I know of a certain pastor who tells lies and conspires against members of his own denomination. I found out from a certain psychiatrist that he had treated 8 pastors of that certain denomination for stress related breakdown, and in every case this particular bloke was named as the main cause, being moderator at the time. He would use backstabbling and conspiracy as the weapon. I suspect he had a role in wrecking my own career at one stage.

Yet I have no doubt whatsoever he believes in Christ, Christ’s saving work, and he would particularly believe he is one of the Elect (I think he’s in for a terrible shock the day he dies frankly). My own old pastor’s opinion of him was “He tells a lot of lies” and “I think he serves the devil. He believes he serves God, but he serves the devil. It’s a terrible situation to be in.” Personally my own sympathy is practically non-existent. If he’s so stupid he doesn’t know lying and conspiring are sins, then that’s his problem. He’s got no problem deliberately wrecking the lives of others - I think there’s a judgment waiting for him.

The old pastor also said, “I think he’ll get hold of this church after I’m gone (died), and wreck it. But he can’t touch the people”. He did indeed get hold of it and wreck it, an inner-city church which the old pastor built up over eleven years. In six months, the great majority of the people left, so he couldn’t touch them.

Just taking the name “Christian” doesn’t mean that one will act like a Christian. Satan believes full well in Christ’s saving sacrifice, and does everything he can to deny it. And there are a few humans who act in pretty much the same way. And some of them are in high places.

All true - the Pastor you’re talking about sounds like he’s walked straight out of a certain Dennis Wheatley novel! Although if he aims to serve Jesus, presumably he is a Christian in some sense, whether his interpretation makes him actually successful as a Christian in spirit or not

I’m not sure exactly how much of all this we can say for certain about Satan and his motivation, but I’d suggest the bottomline is, he doesn’t follow Christ, doesn’t serve him, doesn’t acknowlege him as his saviour - and so isn’t a Christian. That way we can (hopefully) get past the disagreements over issues of epistemology and the meaning of ‘belief’

 

[climer97007]

I understand Satan is pure evil and such, but I realized something while I was out jogging; A Christian is someone who believes in God and believes Jesus is the Son of God. Satan believes this, so does this technically make him a Christian? I know he can never go to Heaven because of his actions, but think about it.

I agree with several other posters here. When you know who Satan is, and you know who a human being is, and then you know who a Christian is, the answer becomes rather self explanitory.

Satan is an angel created by God, not a human being. Jesus on the other hand is fully human and fully God. We human beings have been given, by the grace of God, the ability to see God face to face, and to share in the Divine Life and Love of God for all eternity. There is no comparison here with satan. Satan, in the end, has an end in the fiery pit.

To know who we are as mere human beings is to understand our creation in the image and likeness of God. This is different than the angels. They are different than us.

An angel is not given the possibility of baptism, the grace of God. An angel is not given the opportunity to offer himself as a sacrifice to God (Jesus did). And an angel is not able to join their life and sacrifices to God’s (Christ’s). However, Christians do this.

A Christian, as others have said, and as scripture rightly proclaims, is not just someone who says “Lord, Lord”. Jesus already has warned us of this error in thinking. It is not enough to know who Jesus is to become a Christian. Read the bible, all the bible, not just a few versus taken out of context. Satan knows well how to quote scriptures out of context. Remember Jesus’ temptation in the desert? Satan was quoting scripture out of context (False interpretations) over and over again. Reject satan and all his empty promises and instead seek Christ in His Church.

 

[Clandestine]

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

“Christian” comes from Greek Christos (the anointed one) and the Latin ending denotes a belonging to or adherence to the Anointed One. A Christian is a person who follows and belongs to Christ.

Satan means “the adversary” or “the accuser.” Satan is an antichrist. As an angel of light he is an impostor, and as the devil, an adversary to God.

Satan is cunning, but be not deceived, he is zero percent Christian!

 

[Disciple4Christ]

" Personally my own sympathy is practically non-existent. If he’s so stupid he doesn’t know lying and conspiring are sins, then that’s his problem. He’s got no problem deliberately wrecking the lives of others - I think there’s a judgment waiting for him.

The old pastor also said, “I think he’ll get hold of this church after I’m gone (died), and wreck it. But he can’t touch the people”. He did indeed get hold of it and wreck it, an inner-city church which the old pastor built up over eleven years. In six months, the great majority of the people left, so he couldn’t touch them.

Just taking the name “Christian” doesn’t mean that one will act like a Christian. Satan believes full well in Christ’s saving sacrifice, and does everything he can to deny it. And there are a few humans who act in pretty much the same way. And some of them are in high places.

I see where you are coming from Bob “But” even though there are many Christians out there walking in darkness or even worse walking in darkness guided by the blind. We are called to be their light and that light is Love Charity Compassion. One can only wonder why this 1 or that 1 has not received the graces we with faith, have. I thank God every day for this gift of faith and for the Truths he has given me through his Church.

The problematic word is “believe” many people think that what is meant by this is just knowing something exists. Believing in Jesus to a Catholic is knowing who he is and what he is trying to do for us teach us, and we are guided by the Holy Spirit to that knowledge in three forms: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Magesterium. One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
He has left us many Graces that Many Many people take for granted. The 7 Sacraments are powerful beyond our own ability to comprehend. We need the faith to first accept those gifts Jesus left us in His Church.

As hard as it is to accept we must love even the most vial humans and Pray for their conversion (repentance). That said we do not accept the evil things they do but thank God He has given you the Grace that you are not also like them.

Pray for them Holy Mother that they may all come to Know and Love your Son Jesus who is the truth the light and the way.

Peace and Love Brothers and Sisters

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Mystic Banana

*On the other hand, you could argue Satan doesn’t understand God, otherwise he’d not disobey him! There are technical and spiritual elements to all this - perhaps Satan doesn’t understand himself either… and that’s what makes him what he is! *

I’ve always been perplexed by the notion that Satan was pre-eminent among the angels before his fall, and one of the greatest, if not the greatest, of angels.

Why then did he revolt? Wouldn’t he have known that to revolt would have dire consequences for him? There was no one to tempt him, since the devil did not yet exist. Did God tempt him, or did he tempt himself? Why?

I don’t see any answers to these questions in Scripture, so are we free to speculate; or is all speculation worthless?

 

[climer97007]

Mystic Banana

*I’ve always been perplexed by the notion that Satan was pre-eminent among the angels before his fall, and…the…greatest, of angels.

Why then did he revolt? Wouldn’t he have known that to revolt would have dire consequences for him? There was no one to tempt him, since the devil did not yet exist. Did God tempt him, or did he tempt himself? Why?

I don’t see any answers to these questions in Scripture, so are we free to speculate; or is all speculation worthless?*

I like questions like this. The question “Why…” is almost always my own starting point. Why did satan revolt? He revolted from the moment of his creation due to his pride, due to his refusal to worship his creator, and due to his own perception of himself as being greater than or equal to God. This is why pride is the worst among all sins. Look where it leads.

When blinded by pride, there are no consequences, just the choice to be in one’s own presence is enough. This is the seed and ultimate destiny of self delusion.

Satan’s pride has no need of precursors like temptation. Pride is the very seed and fruit of itself. The sin of pride rejects all criticism and results in a self sufficing delusion of perfection, the very definition of imperfection itself. I hope this is helpful.

Gene

 

[Mystic_Banana]

I like questions like this. The question “Why…” is almost always my own starting point. Why did satan revolt? He revolted from the moment of his creation due to his pride, due to his refusal to worship his creator, and due to his own perception of himself as being greater than or equal to God. This is why pride is the worst among all sins. Look where it leads.

When blinded by pride, there are no consequences, just the choice to be in one’s own presence is enough. This is the seed and ultimate destiny of self delusion.

Satan’s pride has no need of precursors like temptation. Pride is the very seed and fruit of itself. The sin of pride rejects all criticism and results in a self sufficing delusion of perfection, the very definition of imperfection itself. I hope this is helpful.

Gene

Sounds good - but really, I don’t know if we can know all the motivations for sure, although this sounds like a pretty good one, and certainly the most prominent as far as it’s understood - I’d suspect Satan has a tendency towards all of the seven deadly sins… at least!