Is Scientology a religion, philosophy or a cult?

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Rob_has_lapsed said:
Speaking in my most polite voice, you are treading on shaky ground when you criticize others ‘baloney’ beliefs. Peace.
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As an atheist, I’d encourage you to look carefully at the social value of various faiths. What separates a religion from a cult (from an atheistic point of view) is the good it does for society. The Church feeds the hungry, cloths the naked, shelters the poor and educates the ignorant. The Cult of Scientology takes. They’ve been known to knock on the doors of war widows and get them to sign over their pensions. They preyed on the students of Virginia Tech after the shooting there. And if you have no money but still wish to advance in their “Spiritual Development” programme, you can sign over your soul for the next thousand incarnations for slave labour in their “sea org”. This cult denies people basic medical treatment and holds them in a state of bondage. This cult exists currently because of it’s willingness to use fraud and blackmail against state and federal officials.

As a Catholic, I think we stand rather firmly on the Rock when we criticize scientology.
 
TheDoors said:
As an atheist, I’d encourage you to look carefully at the social value of various faiths. What separates a religion from a cult (from an atheistic point of view) is the good it does for society. The Church feeds the hungry, cloths the naked, shelters the poor and educates the ignorant. The Cult of Scientology takes. They’ve been known to knock on the doors of war widows and get them to sign over their pensions. They preyed on the students of Virginia Tech after the shooting there. And if you have no money but still wish to advance in their “Spiritual Development” programme, you can sign over your soul for the next thousand incarnations for slave labour in their “sea org”. This cult denies people basic medical treatment and holds them in a state of bondage. This cult exists currently because of it’s willingness to use fraud and blackmail against state and federal officials.

As a Catholic, I think we stand rather firmly on the Rock when we criticize scientology.
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My most polite response was directed to Dixieagle and the comment regarding ‘baloney’ beliefs.

I am very aware and appreciative of the contributions of the Catholic church and all ‘mainstream’ churches. Scientology is a cult at best and a scam at worst. However most religious organizations, by their very nature, are built on supernatural beliefs,

So calling the supernatural beliefs of others ‘baloney’ does not seem to give much credence to your own supernatural beliefs. Peace.
 
Rob_has_lapsed said:
My most polite response was directed to Dixieagle and the comment regarding ‘baloney’ beliefs.

I am very aware and appreciative of the contributions of the Catholic church and all ‘mainstream’ churches. Scientology is a cult at best and a scam at worst. However most religious organizations, by their very nature, are built on supernatural beliefs,

So calling the supernatural beliefs of others ‘baloney’ does not seem to give much credence to your own supernatural beliefs. Peace.
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Materialism has its own set of “super” natural beliefs, although I think the more correct term would be* non*-natural or perhaps anti-natural.

You see, Materialism was designed to exclude a designer. Materialism (what you call “Atheism”) is a cult that was founded by an ancient Greek, Epicurus. Epicurus was not concerned with the discovery of truth. His goal was to construct a belief system that would produce and maintain a certain condition of mind, a state of being undisturbed or achieving freedom from disturbance (“ataraxia” in Greek). Science, for Epicurus, was not about truth-seeking, but therapeutic - it was about achieving “ataraxia” from the “disturbance” caused by belief in God, the afterlife, and the reality of Hell. None of Epicurus’s arguments in favor of Materialism was based on direct evidence. 🙂
 
eightandsand said:
Materialism has its own set of “super” natural beliefs, although I think the more correct term would be* non*-natural or perhaps anti-natural.

You see, Materialism was designed to exclude a designer. Materialism (what you call “Atheism”) is a cult that was founded by an ancient Greek, Epicurus. Epicurus was not concerned with the discovery of truth. His goal was to construct a belief system that would produce and maintain a certain condition of mind, a state of being undisturbed or achieving freedom from disturbance (“ataraxia” in Greek). Science, for Epicurus, was not about truth-seeking, but therapeutic - it was about achieving “ataraxia” from the “disturbance” caused by belief in God, the afterlife, and the reality of Hell. None of Epicurus’s arguments in favor of Materialism was based on direct evidence. 🙂
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So you are essentially identifying my belief in no creator a cult!? The only disturbance that I ever experienced from a belief in your god was from religious zealots (just saying…)

By definition a cult represents a belief…not sure how a cult can represent a non-belief.

Although you brought up the ‘A’ word and not me, non-theists are not a cult and certainly not a scam. If being a non-theist was a scam then I am apparently missing out on making some serious money. Peace.
 
Rob_has_lapsed said:
So you are essentially identifying my belief in no creator a cult!?
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Yep. Apparently you aren’t familiar with the origins or the beliefs of the cult (Materialism) that you belong to. Maybe you should read some of the writings of the founders and high priests of this cult: Epicurus, Democritus, Lucretius, Machiavelli, Bacon, Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Darwin, Galton, and Haeckel among others (felt like i was singing Billy Joel’s We Didn’t start the Fire, for a moment there). You got a lot of reading to do. 🙂
 
eightandsand said:
Yep. Apparently you aren’t familiar with the origins or the beliefs of the cult (Materialism) that you belong to. Maybe you should read some of the writings of the founders and high priests of this cult: Epicurus, Democritus, Lucretius, Machiavelli, Bacon, Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Darwin, Galton, and Haeckel among others (felt like i was singing Billy Joel’s We Didn’t start the Fire, for a moment there). You got a lot of reading to do. 🙂
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I am somewhat familiar with the concepts materialism/physicalism but only in passing as I happen to actually work for a living. My original comment was to simply be cautious when referring to belief systems other than your own as ‘baloney’. Somehow you have made the leap to associate me to a cult and in the process disrepected some of the most critical thinkers in history. That is disappointing.
 
Rob_has_lapsed said:
Although you brought up the ‘A’ word and not me, non-theists are not a cult and certainly not a scam. If being a non-theist was a scam then I am apparently missing out on making some serious money. Peace.
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Not sure how I “brought up the A word” when it is how you chose to identify your religion in your profile.

I never called your belief system a money-scheme, I called it a cult.

Intelligent design theory is a moral and metaphysical threat to your Materialism. From the very beginning, Epicurean materialism *was defined *against every account of nature leading to an intelligent designer, and so it also always set itself against any religion that asserted that the universe was created. The only real choice, according to Epicurus, must be between materialism and mythology, so any explanation that which is not naturalist must be mere groundless theologizing. Yet, ironically, there is nothing more likely to lead to the ultimate collapse of Materialism than the advance of science. Thankfully, nature is independent of any hypothesis defining scientific inquiry; nature has the last say. Sadly, Materialists hold on to materialist principles even when their own scientific methods and inquiry turn up evidence questioning those very materialist principles. 😃
 
Rob_has_lapsed said:
I am somewhat familiar with the concepts materialism/physicalism but only in passing as I happen to actually work for a living. My original comment was to simply be cautious when referring to belief systems other than your own as ‘baloney’. Somehow you have made the leap to associate me to a cult and in the process disrepected some of the most critical thinkers in history. That is disappointing.
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You act like “cult” is a dirty word. It happens to be the root for “culture” if that makes you feel any better.
 
Rob_has_lapsed said:
I am somewhat familiar with the concepts materialism/physicalism but only in passing as I happen to actually work for a living. My original comment was to simply be cautious when referring to belief systems other than your own as ‘baloney’. Somehow you have made the leap to associate me to a cult and in the process disrepected some of the most critical thinkers in history. That is disappointing.
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Judging by the name “Rob has lapsed” kinda says a lot. But I have to ask since you “work for a living” and since you’re atheist, why would you take the time out of your busy day to join a Catholic Answers web forum?
 
eightandsand said:
Not sure how I “brought up the A word” when it is how you chose to identify your religion in your profile.

I never called your belief system a money-scheme, I called it a cult.

Intelligent design theory is a moral and metaphysical threat to your Materialism. From the very beginning, Epicurean materialism *was defined *against every account of nature leading to an intelligent designer, and so it also always set itself against any religion that asserted that the universe was created. The only real choice, according to Epicurus, must be between materialism and mythology, so any explanation that which is not naturalist must be mere groundless theologizing. Yet, ironically, there is nothing more likely to lead to the ultimate collapse of Materialism than the advance of science. Thankfully, nature is independent of any hypothesis defining scientific inquiry; nature has the last say. Sadly, Materialists hold on to materialist principles even when their own scientific methods and inquiry turn up evidence questioning those very materialist principles. 😃
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You used the ‘A’ word in the first line of you 6:31am post. I also indicated that I am from California but to the best of my knowledge that was not a forbidden topic.

I also never used the words ‘money-scheme’. What are you reading?

You are obviously a much more read and educated person that I am and I give you immense credit for that. I can only assume that in this thread the term ‘cult’ had a negative aspect regardless of the root of the word.

In closing (and only because I have things to do and not because I dislike this conversation) I still caution those who choose to disparge other’s ‘baloney’ beliefs and now choose to associate those with a non-belief (a opposed to a specific belief) into a cult. Peace.
 
meltzerboy said:
Alan Black, Professor of Sociology at the University of New England in Australia, argues that Scientology meets the major criteria of a religion. I don’t know enough about Scientology to offer my own opinion but Black’s study seems reasonable to me.
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Back in the 60s and early 70s, the Scientologists would be hacking their wares on the streets of downtown Boston… you know, “Would you like to take a free personality test?”, “Would you like to see a free movie?” They were as annoying as the Hari Krishnas and the Church of Process. At that time, they were very vocal about the fact that they WERE NOT a religion. It was only when the IRS started breathing down their necks that they wanted and eventually got religious status in the US. Therefore, Scientology is a legal religion in the USA, but such was not always the case. It may meet the major criteria of a religion now, but it also, according to experts on the subject, a cult. Is it a philosophy? Maybe, but if so, it doesn’t seem to be a good one.
 
from another post I made:
drfye said:
A passionate eye, a program on the Canadian news broadcaster CBC showed a documentary about scientology and some of the allegations against it.

cbc.ca/documentaries/passionateeyeshowcase/2010/xfiles/

the documentary talks about allegations such as forced labour, forced abortions, stalking etc.

the documentary is in the related videos on the side.

the documentary is called “scientology: the ex files”
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we should probably be careful with the definition of cult, I think it’s current modern defintion has taken on a more sinister meaning with the relativley recent events that have transpired in the past.
 
cult and a scam.

I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again. I can see at least a minuscule amount of value, and at least sense a vague understanding of why people would want to belong to, just about any other religion but this one. It boggles my mind that people buy this.
 
Scam. :hey_bud:

Founded on a bet between SF writers Robert A. Heinlein, Arthur C. Clarke and L. Ron Hubbard about who could create the best religion from scratch. Heinlein and Clarke did theirs as fiction. Hubbard did his for real, and gained a ton of money and notoriety from it. But I like Heinlein’s Stranger in a Strange Land much better.
 
It doesn’t just “seem” like a scam - it IS a scam. Hubbard famously said (I paraphrase), the easiest way to make money is to start a religion. He took his own advice & did. I grew up next door to a family of Scientologists & I’m convinced that many of the members don’t really believe - the father of the family didn’t, but he made money with the e-meters. (That isn’t conjecture - he told my mother that.He also told her about the qutoe from Hubbard. This was in the mid-60s) The daughter was one of my best friends. Note “was.” The true belevers have a hard time relating to those of us who aren’t.

The only good thing I took away from the Scientology reading I did was the advice to define terms before starting a discussion, especially about religion! 😃
 
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