Is Seder Participation in Passoever and Exodus?

[I_A]

Perhaps Valke2 can answer this.

Is the Seder meal participation in Passover and Exodus? If so how is it participation?

In every mass we take part in Christ’s Last Supper which is a Seder meal, we consume the flesh of the eternal lamb, the Last Supper is Christ’s passion.

But what would it mean to Jews today if Christians celebrated a Seder meal? Would it considered sacrilegious, presumptuous, or comical?

Would it be acceptable for Christians to participate in a Jewish Passover with Jews?

 

[Kaninchen]

Seder is a commemoration of Exodus, a festive meal/service re-enactment/retelling of the story.

You can find examples of seder by googling ‘Passover Haggadah’.

But what would it mean to Jews today if Christians celebrated a Seder meal? Would it considered sacrilegious, presumptuous, or comical?

The festivals and activities of other religions are their concern.

Would it be acceptable for Christians to participate in a Jewish Passover with Jews?

That would rather depend on the Jews and Christians concerned. I’d suspect that constant references by the latter to Jesus/The Passion would be somewhat more than tedious.

 

[b_justb]

There are groups of Messianic Christians that celebrate the Seder with Christian emphasis and implications. If you wanted you could celebrate it with them.

 

[Valke2]

Perhaps Valke2 can answer this.

Is the Seder meal participation in Passover and Exodus? If so how is it participation?

In every mass we take part in Christ’s Last Supper which is a Seder meal, we consume the flesh of the eternal lamb, the Last Supper is Christ’s passion.

But what would it mean to Jews today if Christians celebrated a Seder meal? Would it considered sacrilegious, presumptuous, or comical?

Would it be acceptable for Christians to participate in a Jewish Passover with Jews?

Technically, I think there is something in Torah that requires any stranger taking part of the Seder to be circumcised.

 

[Valke2]

Perhaps Valke2 can answer this.

Is the Seder meal participation in Passover and Exodus? If so how is it participation?

The commandment to particiapte in the Seder is in Exodus, yes. At the Seder itself we read from a hagada, a special prayer book for the occassion that tells the story of your freedom from slavery. My father, who is not jewish, is invited to my in-laws seder every year.

But what would it mean to Jews today if Christians celebrated a Seder meal? Would it considered sacrilegious, presumptuous, or comical?

I think when people talk about a Christian Seder, they are talking about something that revolves around Jesus and not so much around Israel being lead out of Egypt. Different Jews will have different reactions. I only recently learned that Christians (some) did this. It was a bit of a shock for me.
/QUOTE]

 

[Valke2]

Ex 12:43…
The Lord said to Moses and Aaron: This is the law of the passover offering: No foreigner shall eat of it. But any slave a man has bought may eat of it once he has been circumcised. A resident hireling shall not eat of it. It shall be eaten in one house… If a stranger who dwells with you would offer the passover to teh Lord, all his males must be circumcised; then he shall be admitted to offer it; he shall then be as a citizen of the countyr. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. There shall be one law for the citizen and for the stranger who dwells among you.

 

[jmcrae]

Technically, I think there is something in Torah that requires any stranger taking part of the Seder to be circumcised.

This makes sense. Wouldn’t it also be necessary for them to believe what Jews believe about the Passover, and about the nature of God?

 

[jmcrae]

I think when people talk about a Christian Seder, they are talking about something that revolves around Jesus and not so much around Israel being lead out of Egypt. Different Jews will have different reactions. I only recently learned that Christians (some) did this. It was a bit of a shock for me.

I can imagine. In our Diocese, this practice used to be fairly common, but our Bishop has come out and said that it is an inappropriate “aping” of our Jewish brothers and sisters, and that he does not approve of such things being done in our churches.

The ones I went to would have been inoffensive, since they would have been completely unrecognizable to any Jew. (One person actually brought ham to one of these things. I don’t even know why it was called a “Seder Supper,” since it didn’t fit any description I’ve ever seen. It was just a pot-luck supper with Bible readings between each course of the meal.)

 

[Valke2]

This makes sense. Wouldn’t it also be necessary for them to believe what Jews believe about the Passover, and about the nature of God?

Yes. In biblical times, you didn’t get circumcised just to have a good meal! It assumes that the person is entering the jewish nation.

I’ve also found opinion that says it is ok to have a nonjew at the seder.

cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=11367

 

[Valke2]

There’s also a prohibition against teaching torah to a nonjew. ANd there’s always learning going on at a Seder. But that prohibition stems from, I think, fear of retribution for doing so. I know my rabbi doesn’t have a problem with discussing Torah with nonjews.

 

[Kaninchen]

I know my rabbi doesn’t have a problem with discussing Torah with nonjews.

One is allowed to answer questions from non-jews though so I guess you’d have to arrange to get them to ask some questions so that their participation would be in context.

 

[Valke2]

One is allowed to answer questions from non-jews though so I guess you’d have to arrange to get them to ask some questions so that their participation would be in context.

The only question most nonjews want to ask when they are at a seder is “how much longer until we get to eat something?”

 

[jmcrae]

The only question most nonjews want to ask when they are at a seder is “how much longer until we get to eat something?”

 

[Kaninchen]

The only question most nonjews want to ask when they are at a seder is “how much longer until we get to eat something?”

What a sheltered life I’ve led.

 

[Eden]

The only question most nonjews want to ask when they are at a seder is “how much longer until we get to eat something?”

When I was in college, a Catholic college actually, our Dean was Jewish. She invited us all to a Seder, so I went. And, yes, I was wondering that.

 

[Valke2]

When I was in college, a Catholic college actually, our Dean was Jewish. She invited us all to a Seder, so I went. And, yes, I was wondering that.

A typical Seder meal lasts between 3 and 5 hours, depending on the group.

 

[KarenNC]

Dr. Amy Jill Levine, a Conservative Jew who is a Professor of New Testament at Vanderbilt University Divinity School, has a very interesting lecture that touches on this. The lecture is called “Reassessing Christian-Jewish Relations” and is available for free(streaming video) at uctv.tv/series/index.asp?longtime=longtime&sort=title&summary=&number=10

She is a good speaker and I found the lecture very interesting. Here are her credentials
vanderbilt.edu/divinity/facultypages/levine.html

 

[KarenNC]

The ones I went to would have been inoffensive, since they would have been completely unrecognizable to any Jew.

I have attended two that I can remember, one similar to what you describe, held at a Methodist church, I believe, and one done by Jews for Jesus when I was a teen in the late 70s, which would have probably been pretty offensive to the majority of the Jews I now know (I had never met anyone who was a Jew at that time, and only one Catholic). Both were done during Holy Week and had no real intent to actually teach anyone anything about what Jews really believe about Passover. It was all redaction of how the Passover was a foreshadowing of Jesus.

 

[b_justb]

Valke2:

A typical Seder meal lasts between 3 and 5 hours, depending on the group.

Really? I had no idea. I thought the idea was to eat the meal in haste and ready to march. What happened? Why is it such a long and drawn out ordeal? (Not trying to be rude, OK?)

 

[Valke2]

Really? I had no idea. I thought the idea was to eat the meal in haste and ready to march. What happened? Why is it such a long and drawn out ordeal? (Not trying to be rude, OK?)

It’s a good question. It used to be much shorter. But over time, it has become an opportunity to not only eat but to discuss the story of exodus at length in such a way that everyone, children and adults, can remember that they were slaves in Egypt and now they are free.