Is sex before marriage condemned in Tradition?

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BrownR said:
Forgive me, but I simply don’t follow your train of logic. You seem to be making an a priori argument when perhaps you should be making an a posteriori one. Are you saying all sex is equal? Prostitution, adultery and bestiality, one and the same? Sins? Certainly, but only because they are explicitly mentioned in Scripture. Pre-marital sex is not.

No, it doesn’t absolutely follow which is the point of this discussion. You have no biblical reference to pre-marital sex. Quite unlike prostitution, bestiality, adultery and the like. Your opinion is merely relative.
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AFAIR the Bible makes no specific mention of paedophilia. In fact some passages could even be read as endorsing it, not condemning it. Do you think paedophilia is a sin? Why?
 
Petergee said:
AFAIR the Bible makes no specific mention of paedophilia. In fact some passages could even be read as endorsing it, not condemning it. Do you think paedophilia is a sin? Why?
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Socratic questioning that is non-relevant to the issue at hand. We aren’t talking about pedophilia, we are talking about the Biblical support that pre-marital sex is inherently sinful and explicitly condemned.
 
BrownR said:
Nor do I, but again, we differ on how we define “fornication”. The modern definition of the word is a much more liberal and inclusive form than, in my opinion, what was intended by the original Greek. Porneia does not refer to pre-marital sex.
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The verse preceding 1 Corithians 7:9 is:

8To the unmarried and to widows I say: it is good for them to stay as they are, like me.

Paul elsewhere states that he is celibate. (He says it is good for a man never to touch a woman, and that he wishes all men could be like him.) Then he follows with:

9But if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry, since it is better to be married than to be burnt up.

He gives us two choices: be celibate or get married.

As a side note:

I love how St. Paul says that getting married is better than burning in hell. :rotfl:
 
BrownR said:
Socratic questioning that is non-relevant to the issue at hand. We aren’t talking about pedophilia, we are talking about the Biblical support that pre-marital sex is inherently sinful and explicitly condemned.
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Why do you need clear Biblical support for this?
 
What is your take on this bible passage?

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
 
To return to the OP’s question regarding the ECF:
"It is written (Tob. 4:13): ‘Take heed to keep thyself. . . from all fornication, and beside thy wife never endure to know a crime.’ Now crime denotes a mortal sin. Therefore fornication and all intercourse with other than one’s wife is a mortal sin." - St. Thomas Aquinas (“Summa Theologica” 13th century A.D.)
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and:
**“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.” - *Mark 7:21-23 ***
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**“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience…” - *Colossians 3:5-6 ***

and from the CCC:
2353. "Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young."
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BrownR said:
Socratic questioning that is non-relevant to the issue at hand. We aren’t talking about pedophilia, we are talking about the Biblical support that pre-marital sex is inherently sinful and explicitly condemned.
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Answer the question! You claim that the Bible’s condemnation of “porneia” or sexual sin does not include intercourse between two single people who love each other and plan to get married because you claim that precise situation is not specifically condemned. What is to stop a paedophile from saying exactly the same thing about paedophilia? Do you think paedophilia is a sin? Why?
 
BrownR said:
Again, it’s anything but clear because Scripture does not specifically differentiate or define pre-marital sex in any context. The Bible is not a guide for all sexual living any more than it is a guide for scientific understanding.
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This argument is so ridiculous it is stated in the bible in the sixth commandment, Thou shall not commit adultery. Adultery is having relations with someone other than your husband, if you are not married than you are having relations with someone other than your spouse. Plan and simple. If you are waiting for everything to be spelled out for you than you are in a lot of trouble.
 
Thank you to all who have participated. This thread is now closed.
 
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