Is Sheol "Purgatory"

[Benadam]

To answer the OP, no, they are not the same. Everything is this world is different since the Transfiguration. Just as Mass is Passover Transfigured, so is Purgatory Sheol Transfigured. In Sheol were the souls of all who died whether they were bound for salvation or damnation. This was because the gates of Heaven (and hell) had not yet been opened. The Messias did this when He came. Purgatory is for those who have won the crown; but, still must undergo the pruifying fires.Jesus, during the period of His death, descended to the dead and those who were bound for hell received thier judgement and were dispatched. For those bound for Heaven the gates were opened. Sheol no longer exists in the same sense that Passover no longer exists, at least not in the same way.

rciadan

Sheol is defined by the state of human souls before Christ’s soul departed His body joining Himself to the same state.

That is, as a soul seperated from the body.

But when Christ entered that state, eternity entered, Truth entered, judgement entered.

Some souls were prepared to accept Christ and the Gospel , some rejected, and the states of their souls define what we call Hell for those rejected, purgatory for those who accepted in a state of purgation, heaven for those who are purified and enjoying the Beatific Vision.

Now the souls of the departed experience a different reality than they did before Christ’s soul departed His body.

I don’t know what the Jews believe but I’ve always asumed it is what Catholics believe it was before Christ’s decent there.

 

[andzy]

Wildly erroneous.

Could you please point out the errors on this blog post?..
Based on what some of the Jewish posters have said here, it seems to me that Jews believe in something like Purgatory (though, of course, not exactly the same way as Christians do, just like we believe in the same God, only in different ways, so to speak).

 

[Benadam]

Could you please point out the errors on this blog post?..
Based on what some of the Jewish posters have said here, it seems to me that Jews believe in something like Purgatory (though, of course, not exactly the same way as Christians do, just like we believe in the same God, only in different ways, so to speak).

I think the problem here is the common belief by Jews and Catholics that the souls of the departed remain a part of the community or in the Jewish case, family under Abraham.
This leads to a belief that the living can offer the departed some comfort by prayer and good works on their behalf.

This is where the similarity ends though.

I’m no expert on Jewish beliefs but these are my opinion’s after parousing the site posted.

I don’t think the Jewish teaching authority in Jesus’ time addressed this kind of belief. After all the Jews had the freedom to believe or not believe in the ressurection of the dead.

 

[w_stewart]

We say a prayer called kaddish for 11 months when an immediate family member has died. It is meant to be a kind of petition to God to forgive their sins.

Is this practice the one referred to in 2 Machabees 12:44?

 

[andzy]

I think the problem here is the common belief by Jews and Catholics that the souls of the departed remain a part of the community or in the Jewish case, family under Abraham.
This leads to a belief that the living can offer the departed some comfort by prayer and good works on their behalf.
This is where the similarity ends though.

I am also not an expert in Judaism, and I understand that similarities between these two faiths go only so far. However, it seems to me that belief in Sheol and Purgatory are quite similar, and one can quite clearly see Christian belief in Purgatory as “development” of Jewish belief in Sheol. (I’d say that there are even more similarities between these two than there are similarities between Jewish’ Messiah and Christian Christ.)

 

[Atemi]

Could you please point out the errors on this blog post?..

I will not speak to the Scripture references because of time, but I will say again that the idea that the Jews believe in any Purgatory is false right from the start.

Based on what some of the Jewish posters have said here, it seems to me that Jews believe in something like Purgatory (though, of course, not exactly the same way as Christians do, just like we believe in the same God, only in different ways, so to speak).

Actually, they do not.

What many do believe and teach, however, is false doctrine that Christ repudiated 2000 years ago. This is what too many Catholic apologists are citing as proof of “Purgatory.”

What many Catholics are calling Purgatory is the false doctrine of a temporary Gehenna…a temporary Hell. It is a form of universalism, and for some Jews it is total universalism.

As the blog posted:

“We do not automatically & necessarily divide souls into the entirely righteous who will therefore enjoy enternal bliss and the entirely evil who will therefore suffer eternal damnation”

Yet this is what Catholicism and all of orthodox Christianity does.

The post continues:

“The degrees in between are infinite & we believe that God rewards/punishes each soul according to its good/not good actions.”

Notice all souls undergo this: the evil and the good, the faithful and the faithless.

This is not “Purgatory” by a long shot. It is the teaching that these people are punished in a temporary Hell (Gehenna) and will be released to go to Heaven after they have been punished enough. Many even teach that the longest they can be in a Hell is one year! Our Lord totally rejected and corrected that false doctrine by teaching that Gehenna is permanent and forever.

Jews have never taught any place or condition called Purgatory. They have taught, however, that souls undergo temporary and limited punishment in Gehenna (Hell).

This is the ancient false doctrine that some cite as proof of Purgatory. This is a very, very serious mistake.

…

 

[andzy]

I will not speak to the Scripture references because of time, but I will say again that the idea that the Jews believe in any Purgatory is false right from the start.

That’s fine, because my question wasn’t so much about your interpretation of the Scripture regarding Purgatory, but rather whether Jews would say that Sheol and Purgatory are somewhat comparable.

“We do not automatically & necessarily divide souls into the entirely righteous who will therefore enjoy enternal bliss and the entirely evil who will therefore suffer eternal damnation”
Yet this is what Catholicism and all of orthodox Christianity does.

Not quite true, although we believe that eventually there are only two destinations for a soul, we also believe that none of us is really sinless, and most of us die with at least some stain of sin. Therefore, before entering Heaven, we must be purified, as nothing unholy can be in Heaven with God.

What many do believe and teach, however, is false doctrine that Christ repudiated 2000 years ago. This is what too many Catholic apologists are citing as proof of “Purgatory.”

Well, it is a fact that the early Church believed in Purgatory and prayed for the dead. Also, it is a fact that Jews prayed for their dead, so it is not hard to see similarities, so I wouldn’t say that terminology here is so essential.

So you’re saying that Jewish pray for their dead who are in Gehenna, not Sheol. But didn’t Jews believe that Gehenna was an eternal punishment? Then why pray for those souls? And wasn’t Hades a place for temporal punishment/cleansing even for Jews?
Any comments from our Jewish posters?

 

[Atemi]

Well, it is a fact that the early Church believed in Purgatory and prayed for the dead.

There is no such fact, but that is a different thread.

Also, it is a fact that Jews prayed for their dead, so it is not hard to see similarities, so I wouldn’t say that terminology here is so essential.

Praying for the dead is as ancient and pagan a practice as they come. Just because someone prays for the dead, or for God to have mercy, does not mean that they believe in Purgatory.

So you’re saying that Jewish pray for their dead who are in Gehenna, not Sheol.

Here is the Mourner’s Kaddish:

"Glorified and sanctified be God’s great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will. May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days, and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon; and say, Amen.

May His great name be blessed forever and to all eternity.

Blessed and praised, glorified and exalted, extolled and honored, adored and lauded be the name of the Holy One, blessed be He, beyond all the blessings and hymns, praises and consolations that are ever spoken in the world; and say, Amen.

May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, for us
and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

He who creates peace in His celestial heights, may He create peace for us and for all Israel; and say, Amen."

This is prayed in honor of the dead and for those yet still living.

Notice any mention of the dead loved one? Notice any mention of death at all?

There is definitely no mention of God to not punish their loved ones, nor any mention of payment for venial sins.

There is no “Purgatory” here. There never was.

But didn’t Jews believe that Gehenna was an eternal punishment?

Most of them do not. Thus there is the “proof” for Purgatory. Most believe that Hell (Gehenna can only last 12 months.

No.

False doctrine can never be evidence of anything but error.

Some Jews have believed in a permanent Hell (including Josephus, I believe) and they were correct. Once a permanent Hell is postulated, however, there goes any proof of Purgatory.

…

 

[andzy]

Atemi, sounds like you’re contradicting all Jewish posters in this thread. They haven’t denied that there are at least some similarities or, that Jews pray for their dead:

We say a prayer called kaddish for 11 months when an immediate family member has died. It is meant to be a kind of petition to God to forgive their sins.

JewishEncyclopedia.com on Purgatory:

An intermediate state through which souls are to pass in order to be purified from sin before they are admitted into the heavenly paradise. The belief in purgatory, fundamental with the Roman Catholic Church, is based by the Church authorities chiefly upon II Macc. xii. 44-45 (…) The same view, that an atonement should be made for the dead, is expressed in Sifre, Deut. 210. The idea of an intermediate state of the soul, release from which may be obtained by intercession of the saints, is clearly dwelt upon in the Testament of Abraham (…)
The view of purgatory is still more clearly expressed in rabbinical passages, as in the teaching of the Shammaites: "In the last judgment day there shall be three classes of souls: the righteous shall at once be written down for the life everlasting; the wicked, for Gehenna; but those whose virtues and sins counterbalance one another shall go down to Gehenna and float up and down until they rise purified; for of them it is said: ‘I will bring the third part into the fire and refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried’ [Zech. xiii. 9.] (…) The Hillelites seem to have had no purgatory… Still they also speak of an intermediate state. (…)
The righteous, however, and, according to some, also the sinners among the people of Israel for whom Abraham intercedes because they bear the Abrahamic sign of the covenant are not harmed by the fire of Gehenna even when they are required to pass through the intermediate state of purgatory

I can certainly agree that Jewish view on the afterlife is not exactly the same as Christian, and that not all Jews necessary believe in the same thing, however, you cannot just dismiss that there are certainly similarities, and that Jews do pray for their dead.

 

[Zooey]

Your “Friendly Neighborhood Methodist” thinks that Sheol sounds more like what is called either “Abraham’s Bosom”, or the “Limbo of the Fathers”.
Since the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, the doors of Heaven are now open for people to enter in. There is no longer a special place for people who await the Messiah.
Purgatory is the last cleansing before entering Heaven.

 

[SFLCatholic]

False doctrine can never be evidence of anything but error.

Like the so-called Rapture

 

[SFLCatholic]

false doctrine … I would stay away from that.

Like Sola Scriptura?

 

[Atemi]

I can certainly agree that Jewish view on the afterlife is not exactly the same as Christian, and that not all Jews necessary believe in the same thing, however, you cannot just dismiss that there are certainly similarities, and that Jews do pray for their dead.

To cite false doctrine (temporary Gehenna) as supposed proof of Purgatory (not temporary Gehenna) is a huge mistake.

Those that do not know better may be fooled, but those that do know better will see the great error this is and (appropriately) reject it.

I personally do not see why anyone would even want to cite false doctrine as “proof” of what they believe to be true doctrine. This bespeaks more of an agenda rather than a promotion of truth.

…

 

[SFLCatholic]

To cite false doctrine (temporary Gehenna) as supposed proof of Purgatory (not temporary Gehenna) is a huge mistake.

Those that do not know better may be fooled, but those that do know better will see the great error this is and (appropriately) reject it.

I personally do not see why anyone would even want to cite false doctrine as “proof” of what they believe to be true doctrine. This bespeaks more of an agenda rather than a promotion of truth.

…

Seems to me you are creating your own false doctrine. So why should we believe you.

 

[Valke2]

Any opinions about this site?

Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory

%between%

stillsmall’s contribution seems correct to me.