Is sin A private affair

[Christ_Imitator]

Thank you PJM for explaining that to me. I am still a little confused about the reason it needs to be a priest; is it not God who forgives us, not priests. The Bible mentions confessing sin. It’s not like they can magically do something for us when we confess to them, and neither can our friends. I thought the importance of confessing our sins to others was to have somebody who can hold us accountable for our actions, and to help us to overcome them. (Of course God also helps us, if we ask him to give us strength to over come the tempatations.

So, to some up what I am saying: The priest is a person, my friends are also people. Sure a priest has a specific job of educating people about Christ, and teaching people how to live godly lives, etc.

But, does that mean they really have some special power to take our sins away through the Holy Spirit or something? What about those people in other countries who have no access to a priest? Are they unforgiven because they do not confess sins to a priest? Even me and all of my protestant friends… are we not forgiven either because we don’t confess our sins to priests or pastors? Or, do I just spend a lot more time in Purgatory before Heaven for not confessing to a Priest?

I have two Catholic friends actually who go to my church’s youth group Wednesday nights. I forget about that, I suppose I could also ask them these questions.
((Yes, I am only in high school, in case you were wondering. I’m 18)).

–Oh, and I have heard a lot about this RCIA thing that people go through to become Catholic, I think? I don’t know if I want to become Catholic, but I am very interested in learning more about the Catholic Church. Would that still be something for me to go through, or is it just for people who want to become Catholic?

 

[doughnut]

to my best of knowledge, sin couldn’t be a private affair, since the sins of one person can contaminate the holiness of the entire community.

 

[PJM]

=Christ Imitator;6260083]Thank you PJM for explaining that to me. I am still a little confused about the reason it needs to be a priest; is it not God who forgives us, not priests. The Bible mentions confessing sin. It’s not like they can magically do something for us when we confess to them, and neither can our friends. I thought the importance of confessing our sins to others was to have somebody who can hold us accountable for our actions, and to help us to overcome them. (Of course God also helps us, if we ask him to give us strength to over come the tempatations.

So, to some up what I am saying: The priest is a person, my friends are also people. Sure a priest has a specific job of educating people about Christ, and teaching people how to live godly lives, etc.

***There are several reasons for the absolute necessity of a priest involvement.

First* and formost is that its God’s Will and that Jesus Himself affirms this fact in John 20:20-23. READ VERY CAREFULLY. "[20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples [another term for priest in th erly church] were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.[who actually forgives the sins] *** If ***you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

This is further supportd by Mt. 16:18-19.

Secoundly: This is the New Covenant but even in the Old Testement Priest had an essential role in the forgiveness of sins, not given to just anyone; but to Priest & Bishops].

Num.15: 28 “And the priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who commits an error, when he sins unwittingly, to make atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven.”

Third: Sins always have a public aspect, as they effect others by our poor and sinful example.

Forth: God knows that it is easy to sin, that sining is nevertheless very serious in the eyes and heart of God. By making it necesary to Confess to a priest, whose role is NOT to actually fogive th sins; but in a REAL SENSE, to Give God “permission” to do so. The role of the priest is to question the sinner, determine if true forgiveness exist, [and if it does] thn to ask GOD on the sinners behalf to grant forgiveness,and then to ABSOLVE the sinner from the sins [WHICH GOD MUST ACKNOWLEDGE FAVORABLY] and to do do other important things. Council the sinner on how they might avoid those sins in the future, AND to issue a “pennance,” [similar to OT sin offerings by the priest] that must be fulfilled by the sinner befor the effects of FORGIVENESS take place. YOUR FRIENDS CAN DO NONE OF THESE THINHGS.

And now you likely know more and better than your Catholic friends!
**

But, does that mean they really have some special power to take our sins away through the Holy Spirit or something? What about those people in other countries who have no access to a priest? Are they unforgiven because they do not confess sins to a priest? Even me and all of my protestant friends… are we not forgiven either because we don’t confess our sins to priests or pastors? Or, do I just spend a lot more time in Purgatory before Heaven for not confessing to a Priest?

***The answer lies in a GIANTIC MAYBE? Maybe thy are forgive, mybe they are not. ONLY GOD KNOWS for SURE! In Catholic Confesion you can know with absolute certainty:thumbsup:

God does permit a POSIBILITY [AND ONLY A POSIBILITY WITH ONE’S SOUL HANGING IN THE BALANCE] and NO OPPORTUNITY TO CONFESS TO A PRIEST, for PERFECT Contrition [in God’s understanding of the term “perfect”] perfect sorrow an a Perfect resolve NOT to sin that way again. Perfect means P E F E R E C T! Nothing less. How is one to KNOW they are meeting all of the criteria God Himself sets as absolutely necessary?***

I have two Catholic friends actually who go to my church’s youth group Wednesday nights. I forget about that, I suppose I could also ask them these questions.
((Yes, I am only in high school, in case you were wondering. I’m 18)).

–Oh, and I have heard a lot about this RCIA thing that people go through to become Catholic, I think? I don’t know if I want to become Catholic, but I am very interested in learning more about the Catholic Church. Would that still be something for me to go through, or is it just for people who want to become Catholic?

RCIA stands for “Rite of Christian Iniation for Adults,” It is overview of what Catholics beleive and practice, not an in depth catechesis of the Catholic Faith. And it is very much worthwhile checking into.

I’d be delighted to answer any further questions that you may have.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[Christ_Imitator]

I wish I had written down exactly what we read from today in Church, but we discussed some things to do with priests in the Old Testament, and some things that can relate to the Catholic Church. I do remember that we read mainly from the book of Hebrews.

Some things that were discussed: In the Old Testament times, it was necessary for a high priest to enter into the “Holy of Holy’s” where God himself was. If you were not reverent or didn’t do whatever was required of you while you were in there with God, that you were killed. So, from my understanding, during Old Testament times, people could not just come before the Lord when ever they felt they needed to.
Then we talked about how Jesus Christ is now our high priest, and that because of him, we no longer need to have priests who go before God for us, but now we are able to come before him on our own. Jesus destroyed that barrier between us and God. I believe it also mentioned somewhere in the New Testament that we are to boldy come before God with prayer.

So, basically, from what I understood is that there is no longer any reason for us to keep ourselves hidden from God. Rather than going to some priest to ask God to forgive you, I believe we are more than capabale of doing it on our own; and I believe God wants us to. To be responsible for our own actions, and to have the boldness to come before him to ask that he forgive us; while we also remember that he is not required to forgive us, he still does. I do realize we still need to be reverent when we come before God in prayer, but I don’t believe that we need the priest to pray for us. And, I am not sure why anyone would think that God (the creator of all things) needs the permission of some priest to forgive another human being. Found the verse now that I was thinking of, which explains that all Christians are priests. If we live our lives working to help the Kingdom of God here on Earth, we are being disciples (or priests). * “Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.” * <Hebrews 4:14-16>

I think this is the main difference between Catholics and Protestants, and I respect the different beliefs, yet I’m not convinced that the Catholics have the correct view on this.
-For Catholics, we still need a Priest to come before God in order for us to be forgiven.
-For Protestants, we believe that we are to come before God in prayer, asking that he would forgive us. And that we need to ask him to give us strength to overcome the temptations of sin, so that we may repent and turn away from our sinfulness.

YOUR FRIENDS CAN DO NONE OF THESE THINHGS.

You are correct, and neither can a Priest. It is GOD WHO DOES THESE THINGS, NOT A PRIEST.

 

[Christ_Imitator]

“Now when people take an oath, they call on someone greater than themselves to hold them to it. And without any question that oath is binding. 17 God also bound himself with an oath, so that those who received the promise could be perfectly sure that he would never change his mind. 18 So God has given both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can have great confidence as we hold to the hope that lies before us. 19 This hope is a strong and trustworthy anchor for our souls. It leads us through the curtain into God’s inner sanctuary. 20 Jesus has already gone in there for us. He has become our eternal High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.” {Hebrews 6:13-20}

I forgot to include the above verse in my last post, so I am adding it here.
I believe that we have our more spiritually mature friends, pastors, and family to hold us accountable for living our Christian life more the way that God intends for us. When we slip/make a mistake, we can come to them to ask them for guidence. To show us where in the Bible we can look. And, also, because Jesus has taken down the curtain, we are able to come before God when our friends, family, and pastors are unable to guide us. I don’t believe it is necessary for a Priest as I explained in the previous post. God strengthens us through the Holy Spirit, so I do not see what more some priest can do for us?

((After posting these, I found something that is supporting, and helps to explain what I was saying: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AllChristiansArePriests.htm I do not attend that Church, and have never heard of it, but may make more sense than I did)).

 

[PJM]

=Christ Imitator;6262164]“Now when people take an oath, they call on someone greater than themselves to hold them to it. And without any question that oath is binding. 17 God also bound himself with an oath, so that those who received the promise could be perfectly sure that he would never change his mind. 18 So God has given both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can have great confidence as we hold to the hope that lies before us. 19 This hope is a strong and trustworthy anchor for our souls. It leads us through the curtain into God’s inner sanctuary. 20 Jesus has already gone in there for us. He has become our eternal High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.” {Hebrews 6:13-20}

I forgot to include the above verse in my last post, so I am adding it here.
I believe that we have our more spiritually mature friends, pastors, and family to hold us accountable for living our Christian life more the way that God intends for us. When we slip/make a mistake, we can come to them to ask them for guidence. To show us where in the Bible we can look. And, also, because Jesus has taken down the curtain, we are able to come before God when our friends, family, and pastors are unable to guide us. I don’t believe it is necessary for a Priest as I explained in the previous post. God strengthens us through the Holy Spirit, so I do not see what more some priest can do for us?

((After posting these, I found something that is supporting, and helps to explain what I was saying: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AllChristiansArePriests.htm I do not attend that Church, and have never heard of it, but may make more sense than I did)).

You are hardly “imating Christ” by ignoring His own directives and believing what you choose to believe.

Have a great life

 

[Christ_Imitator]

Pretty sure I am looking **at his word. ** You refuse to challenge those beliefs that you’ve clung to for so many years, that would be the problem.
I’m not sure why you think that my way is wrong? Unless you have some kind of vision from God himself, I don’t think you can say that the Catholics have the right idea about confessing their sins. Obviously it works both ways, though. For you guys, you like to have a priest get involved. For us protestants, we prefer to follow the New Testament which tells us that we no longer need to have a priest praying for us.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Pretty sure I am looking **at his word. ** You refuse to challenge those beliefs that you’ve clung to for so many years, that would be the problem.
I’m not sure why you think that my way is wrong? Unless you have some kind of vision from God himself, I don’t think you can say that the Catholics have the right idea about confessing their sins. Obviously it works both ways, though. For you guys, you like to have a priest get involved. For us protestants, we prefer to follow the New Testament which tells us that we no longer need to have a priest praying for us.

It is not the priest praying for you it is the authority of Jesus Christ that iis working for you…

 

[Christ_Imitator]

Alright. Then why do we still need to go through a priest if Jesus tells us he is our high priest? Does that not mean we are to come to him with prayers and concerns rather than to a priest. From what I’ve learned is that before Jesus, it was necessary to go through a priest, but now it is no longer that way.

 

[JonNC]

Pretty sure I am looking **at his word. ** You refuse to challenge those beliefs that you’ve clung to for so many years, that would be the problem.
I’m not sure why you think that my way is wrong? Unless you have some kind of vision from God himself, I don’t think you can say that the Catholics have the right idea about confessing their sins. Obviously it works both ways, though. For you guys, you like to have a priest get involved. For us protestants, we prefer to follow the New Testament which tells us that we no longer need to have a priest praying for us.

OK, but here is what the Augsburg Confession says:

Article XI: Of Confession.

1] Of Confession they teach that Private Absolution ought to be retained in the churches, although in confession 2] an enumeration of all sins is not necessary. For it is impossible according to the Psalm: Who can understand his errors? Ps. 19:12.

More and more, I’m realizing how not-Protestant Lutherans really are.

Jon

 

[Moscati]

Alright. Then why do we still need to go through a priest if Jesus tells us he is our high priest? Does that not mean we are to come to him with prayers and concerns rather than to a priest. From what I’ve learned is that before Jesus, it was necessary to go through a priest, but now it is no longer that way.

In Confession, the priest acts in persona Christi–it is not the priest himself, a human man, who forgives sins, but Christ. The priest is there to ‘be Christ’ for us. Someone else quoted the Scripture where Jesus gives his apostles the power to forgive sins.

The teaching about there not being a need for priests anymore come out of the Letter to the Hebrews. That’s it’s specific context–it’s written to convince Jews that their Old Covenant practices, and the priesthood of Aaron was no longer necessary. The Church’s priests, in contrast, are like Jesus–“priests forever after the order of Melchizidek”, who offered bread and wine, not animal sacrifices. That’s what they do in the Mass.

Context is everything!

 

[Bill_Pick]

Alright. Then why do we still need to go through a priest if Jesus tells us he is our high priest? Does that not mean we are to come to him with prayers and concerns rather than to a priest. From what I’ve learned is that before Jesus, it was necessary to go through a priest, but now it is no longer that way.

You can read your Bible to see what Our Lord said its in black and white.Catholics certainly don’t think the priest is God. Catholics believe the priest simply does what Jesus commissioned the apostles to do, which is to serve the Church, that is Christ’s body on earth

 

[cathy14]

Sin is a private affair–especially in respect to how we feel about our sorrow for the sin. BUT—the affects of sin are always PUBLIC! Sin–anyone’s sin–any sin–brings all of us down and has repercussions that affect all of human kind!