Is "Smite Their Neck" acceptable in Islam for those who are perceived as enemy?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DeExupery
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Dear Rasheed,
firstly, your proof that prophet muhammad was illiterate can be found in the thread regarding that topic.
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I believe that it is sufficently proven by Rodrigo that Prophet Mohammed was able to write, thus he must be able to read.
these points are circumstancial and do not prove anything.
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The points I mentioned proved three points:
  1. The verses are similar
  2. Mohammed PBUH lived among the Jews and Christians.
  3. Since Quran age was younger than Talmud and Bible, it means that you need to prove that indeed Quran doesn’t plagiarize Talmud and Bible.
in his book “sirat al-nabi and the orientalists”, m. m. ali states regarding the similarities and differences between biblical and Quranic accounts (parts bolded by me for emphasis):
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Sadly, m. m. Ali was a moslem, so of course while he might be a good scholar, his point of view is very biassed. Here I quote his ideas
it is overlooked that the mere existence of similar facts or ideas in a previous work, sometimes thousands of years old, does not ipso fact prove that a subsequent work is based on that work. some further evidence is needed to show the contact or possibility of contact with, or understanding of that source. this point is especially relevant in the case of muhammad (s); for it does not carry conviction just to suggest that he mastered the materials treasured in numerous ancient works and sources, and that also in a municipality of foreign and even defunct languages, by means of only casual conversations with a trader in transit or a foreign slave in domestic service
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Let me point this out:
  1. The story thousands years old has the ability to spread among people.
  2. What is the fact in your opinion? : The similar verse or m. m. ali’s opinion that this doesn’t prove that the subsequent work is based on the previous work.
  3. The point of Mohammed doesn’t know anything (not mastered) about Talmud and Bible is very weak. First of all, he married to Khadijah, who is strongly believed to be a Christian. From the marriage time of 15 years, do you think it’s highly impossible that Khadijah shared her knowledge to her husband? Or do you think they never talked during their marriage? And he was a trader as well.
So in my opinion, this defence really is weak. I let the reader judge.

Fox
 
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r.gonzales:
firstly, your proof that prophet muhammad was illiterate can be found in the thread regarding that topic.
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I found that muhammad was **literate ** in that thread.
 
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DeExupery:
The points I mentioned proved three points:
  1. The verses are similar
  2. Mohammed PBUH lived among the Jews and Christians.
  3. Since Quran age was younger than Talmud and Bible, it means that you need to prove that indeed Quran doesn’t plagiarize Talmud and Bible.
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yet again, you evolve your points and add a third. 👍

all of your points are circumstancial and don’t prove anything.
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DeExupery:
Sadly, m. m. Ali was a moslem, so of course while he might be a good scholar, his point of view is very biassed.
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nice way of rejecting what he says, regardless of how valid it is.
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DeExupery:
First of all, he married to Khadijah, who is strongly believed to be a Christian.
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“strongly believed”? based on what evidence? more of your suposition and conjecture?
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DeExupery:
And he was a trader as well.
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firstly, doesn’t prove anything that you suggest it does. secondly, trading was not his proffession.
 
Dear Rasheed,
yet again, you evolve your points and add a third.
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Life goes on and I don’t want to stay the same, like some people wants to stay at 7th century. Of course I evolve in my thoughts. Don’t you evolve yourself?
all of your points are circumstancial and don’t prove anything
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It can be called facts, thank you. Or it can be called as Exhibit 1, Exhibit 2 and Exhibit 3. 🙂

Or you want to get out of the case of Plagiarism Accusation by pleading insanity?
nice way of rejecting what he says, regardless of how valid it is.
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Valid for moslems is not always valid for Kuffr. If all you think valid is valid, then I would end up being a moslem myself.
How can you convince me of his validity? All I see that he wrote his own opinion. Let me refresh you:
it is overlooked that the mere existence of similar facts or ideas in a previous work, sometimes thousands of years old, does not ipso fact prove that a subsequent work is based on that work.
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This is of course a very weak statement. If there’s a POPULAR story some thousands year ago and then you wrote the similar story, then what is not proven? That’s why moslems like you love to cover your track based on illiteracy and such.
“strongly believed”? based on what evidence? more of your suposition and conjecture?
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Or you want to say she was a moslem? So the first moslem is not Mohammed but Khadijah? I based it on her reaction at the first revelation. You can read yourself and you may want to bring it here. I believe it is somewhat connected to her Christian cousin.
firstly, doesn’t prove anything that you suggest it does. secondly, trading was not his proffession.
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He did trade. Of course, he traded after he married Khadijah, if I am not mistaken. And it shows more and more possibility that Mohammed PBUH was not SECLUDED from the Jews and the Christians.

So I would love to see your further comments.

Fox
 
r.gonzales":
firstly, doesn’t prove anything that you suggest it does. secondly, trading was not his proffession.
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Then what was the prophet job for daily needs? Didnt he run Kadijah’s business?
 
DeExupery

Are we in the end of discussion? I hope Moderator could lock this topic if no body interested to continue :rolleyes:
 
*Dear All,

This will be my last posting here, as DeExupery, or Boa Constrictor, or Lamp Lighter. As you may already realized, I am one (and it may sound a bit like trinity, but not). Being suspended (twice, my record in ANY FORUM that I’ve ever joined, Islam or Christian) while I am very eager to share my thoughts make me think that this forum cannot accept free ideas.
To Moderators, especially Rachel, who seem to eager banning everyone, I want to ask where do you want this forum is leading to? Talking about theological nonsense? While you see people are suffering there, repressed in many Islamic Countries? Talking is cheap. We need to open up to ideas and share what is in our hearts. We need to touch our moslem brothers, letting them know how we feel about the whole situation, and not being PCs. We have respected what our moslem brothers and sisters said about apostasy, about their faith, about their view of terrorism, about US invation, about anything. But too bad, ALL of you repress what your Christian brothers and sisters (and those who don’t belong to those two religions) have to say. You repress them in the name of LOVE. But LOVE doesn’t suffocate.It FREES you from fear. And one again, LOVE is not a show off. LOVE is from the heart. IT can be mean, soft, sensitive, truthful, hard, anything. You just want to show your beautiful and sainty faces. But what is in your heart? Is it really true love, not only a show off?
Actually, I join here is because one of my best friends online asks me to join. But I hope that best friend will understand if I have to leave this seemingly perfect forum, because I can’t breathe here.
There are many thread that I join, which are unfinished yet. And will never finish for I will not post anything anymore. And I don’t have a heart to continue. Regards to many people I meet here, which joyfully share thoughts with me: Rodrigo, Guratto, Cyber Knight, Catholic 29, Malleus, Barton, Faith, Booklover, George Water, Iosav, Rasheed, Edris, Cute, and all the people I cannot mention here. May God bless you all, whatever the conception of God you may have.

Ciao,

Fox/Boa/Lamp Lighter*
 
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JoelRichardson:
I have sent an e-mail to Dr. Gabriel requesting him to provide a photocopied image of this reference from his original source. I’m expecting his response to take some time. While I do wish to give Mr. Gabriel the benefit of the doubt, I am presently preparing to remove this quote from my book. For pointing this out, I thank you. Truth is truth and certainly it does not need to be embellished to stand on its own. It is also clear that despite the fact that the title was already rather ominous, Dr. Gabriel has indeed embellished a tad in his translation. I have taken many pains to make sure that my work would be respectable, even if entirely diagreeable to Muslims - particularly with regard to the references. I only have a couple of references from Dr. Gabriel in my book and indeed, I may even remove them all.
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not quite sure if our friend joel still visits this site, but being that he said he was going to remove the quote from his book over a month ago, and the fact that it still hasn’t been removed, i was just wondering if he was still intending to be true to his word… as well, if he got a reply from mr. (or mr.'s) mark a. gabriel regarding the slight embellishment he/they made in this translation from ibn taimiyyah’s book.
 
I cry to hear that cruelty. Couldn’t the killers see themselves in the victims? And why then we talk about books? Life is much more important than all the holy books combine into one.
 
Interesting…is it? We will find out about the beheading accordiing to Islam…so stay tune… 😃
 
R.Gonzales,

Actually I haven’t been attending this thread, or this forum actually. But just to update you, I have not heard from Mr. Gabriel yet. I have however deleted this portion that we discussed from the hard-copy of the book due out in another month or so. (A very late change that cost me some money and lost time to delete.) The changes have also finally been submitted to the web-master to edit the online version. This may take some time, but it will be removed. I can assure you that the web-master at Answering-Islam is very humble and quick to fix anything like this. Once again, I thank you for your pointing this out.

Bless you,

Joel
 
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