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EphelDuath
Guest
Listening to a joke fulfills no bodily need. I suppose that’s unnatural and should be a sin?
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TedDC
Guest
Listening, in this context, is a thought process, not a bodily function, so it’s not relevant.
The question is: how can an activity which fulfills no bodily need, which actually harms the body, and which uses an organ in a way that nature did not intend, not be considered sinful? Certainly the Church applies those criteria in determining which sexual activities are illicit.
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EphelDuath
Guest
Smoking harms the body but can be delightful in some contexts to the pysche; as is the case with eating cake or not exercising all day. Sexual illicitness is always damaging to the spirit, however.
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TedDC
Guest
What is the evidence for your last statement?
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James_Least
Guest
That is an interesting point about not eating meat on certain Fridays. When I was a Roman Catholic, in the reign of Pius XII, we were told not to eat meat on any Friday under pain of mortal sin. However it was O.K. to eat the meat of fish. I am still trying to figure out how the meat of fish is not meat like flesh of everything else we call meat. Is there a mortal sin anymore? I see the term grave sin used. Are these terms synonymous? I sure was relieved to get that legalistic yoke of bondage off my soul.
The Bible still says that whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. If we have to ask if our white shirt looks dirty, it probably does.
Peace,
James Least
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stringbeanduck
Guest
There are two types of sin. Venial and mortal. In order for somebody to commit a mortal sin, the action must be grave matter, they must know of its gravity, and they must freely consent to it anyways. If somebody says “grave sin” they are probably refering to mortal sin which is more correct to say.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Is barbecueing MEAT and inhaling the smoke of the charcoal and burning fat, unnatural and therefore sinful?
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Is it sinful to smoke cigars in public but not in private?
A good cigar is a smoke.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Firemen inhale smoke in large amounts.
If smoke is toxic and therefore sinful, should firemen be permitted to do so, or should they be given some kind of official church dispensation?
What if some “amateur” gets to the fire before the firemen. Can he grab a hose or fire extinguisher and put out the fire? Or should that person be punished for exposing himself to danger? Is the civilian who performs a rescue usurping the authority of firefighters?
[By the way, I know people who do take the position that firemen endanger their lives and the welfare of their families and so should NOT be permitted to expose themselves to smoke. And the prohibition applies double to “civilians”.]
If smoke is toxic and therefore sinful, should firemen be permitted to do so, or should they be given some kind of official church dispensation?
What if some “amateur” gets to the fire before the firemen. Can he grab a hose or fire extinguisher and put out the fire? Or should that person be punished for exposing himself to danger? Is the civilian who performs a rescue usurping the authority of firefighters?
[By the way, I know people who do take the position that firemen endanger their lives and the welfare of their families and so should NOT be permitted to expose themselves to smoke. And the prohibition applies double to “civilians”.]
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TedDC
Guest
A fireman’s (or a civilian good samaritan’s) smoke inhalation is incidental to perfoming a noble mission - it has nothing to do with tobacco smoking, which is intentionally inhaling smoke for selfish pleasure. Firemen do not want to breathe smoke - in fact they make a great effort to avoid it, and anyone who takes in a significant amount of smoke in a fire is given medical treatment.
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ac_claire
Guest
Alcohol is essentially a poison too, as much as nicotine is. What we drink as liquor is very diluted, much as nicotine is diluted and treated so it won’t kill us immediately. Why isn’t drinking alcohol sinful? To excess it is, of course. But by your reasoning even moderate drinking would have to be a sin.
The actual truth of it is, smoking is like any other addictive thing. It can be sinful if abused, but isn’t *intrinsically *sinful.
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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
Smoking is not a sin at all as far as the Church is concerned, some saints and blesseds used to smoke. Don’t try and superimpose your anti-smoking bais on Church teaching.
Here is one example:
Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati smoking a pipe.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Saint Damien of Molokai i another one that springs to mind.
Here is one example:
Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati smoking a pipe.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Saint Damien of Molokai i another one that springs to mind.
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ac_claire
Guest
Why not just for their own pleasure? Why’d you throw the “selfish” in there? You obviously hate smoking/smokers and your bias is showing here. That’s your right, I know many people who think it’s disgusting and under certain circumstances I agree. But your being disgusted doesn’t make it sinful, you know what I mean?
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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
God is not against us having “selfish pleasure” we are not puritans, we are even allowed to drink alcohol for “selfish pleasure” as well!
God does not mind his children enjoying themselves.
God does not mind his children enjoying themselves.
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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
Key word is excess, only if done to excess.Here is what the Catechism has to say about tobacco use:
So I think that smoking cigarettes is not a grave sin but is it a venial sin?
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TedDC
Guest
No, I don’t hate smokers at all, although I certainly don’t like smoking. But I used the word “selfish” only because it’s used by Catholics in condemning masturbation, and I’m curious as to why that pleasure is condemned as being an abuse of the body, whereas smoking, which actually causes harm to the body, is not.
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TedDC
Guest
I agree completely - and note that your points very nicely support my argument that masturbation is not morally wrong!
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TedDC
Guest
The question is why - something the Church generally isn’t good about answering without circular reference to its own teachings.
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stringbeanduck
Guest
Do you not understand these are things from two different virtues that which takes different criteria to offend them? Chastity and Temperance are separate issues. If masturbation is an offense against Chastity there is not applying it to Temperance.
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TedDC
Guest
Chastity is a separate issue. The Church also condemns masturbation because “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” (CCC 2352) My question is: following that same logic, why is smoking not condemned at least as strongly, since smoking is clearly using the respiratory faculty “contrary to its purpose”. And masturbation does not even harm the body, while smoking most certainly does.
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