Is smoking Marijuana morally wrong in a legal setting?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jeffe
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Here’s the thing about the whole pot deal. Even though it may not have terrible long term effects, (jury still out), and even though it’s “natural”, the intent behind it’s use is always to get high. It’s slightly different from alcohol in that regard. Alcohol is not sinful, unless one is taking it out of it’s celebratory accentuation context, and deliberately getting drunk. Wine and ale are particularly spoken of fondly, and have been used forever by good Christians in celebrations of feasts, and to pair with food etc… Yes, many people set out to get drunk, and don’t really care all that much what they’re drinking. When they have that intention, then there are morality issues, and the concept of “sin” rasises it’s ugly head, as you are intentionally seeking an alteration of reality to the point where you are not receptive to God, and giving yourself over to scandal.

Now, I suppose, it’s theoretically possible, that one might ingest a small enough amount of marijuana, and do so in a celebratory atmosphere, in a legal context, and without the intent of getting blitzed. But really, being just honest about the people in my own life, it’s not very common. In fact, I find it to be non-existent among my peers. Most, nay, ALL persons I know, who use marijuana, are setting out to just plain get high. It’s not a mild enhancement for a celebratory event used in appreciation of God’s good gifts and joys. It’s intent, for the users I know is to get stoned. Period. I’ve never heard somebody say, “Oh, let’s have a toast of a 1/2 a hit on this pipe, and blow it out real quick in celebration of Bob’s promotion”.

I know that pot smokers are by and large mellow, and happy and so on and so forth, but this really kind of misses the point. Even in a legal environment. I’m also acutely aware that they don’t consider themselves to be committing moral error in using it.

I don’t drink anymore, because when I did, I found that I had a problem drinking with an attitude of temperance, moderation and in the mind of God. I also found that it could lead ME to behaviors which brought on scandal. However, my grandmother drank a glass of wine with every dinner I ever saw her eat. I never saw her in a state of drunkeness, or involved in scandal. There is nothing wrong with drinking a glass of wine or beer. Maybe even two, but since I was morally irresponsible with it, I don’t do it anymore. I don’t think less of those who still do, and it doesn’t bother me, until drunkeness ensues. There are few things less pleasurable to be around than someone who is drunk. I am saddened thinking of the number of times I was that away around countless friends and relatives who had a mind of tolerance and moderation, and how I must have brought scandal to so many events and gatherings. I don’t bring this up because I think pot smokers are as unhinged as drunks. I frankly doubt it. But marijuana doesn’t seem to have a licit use, so abstinence, it seems should be the normative treatment of marijuana. It may have legitimate medical uses. I even believe this. God doesn’t make things which are useless. And yes, it can also be used for purposes of rope and clothing, but so can a lot of other things.

When I am around someone who is stoned, I also have started to grow weary, and get the same sort of vibe I do around those who are drunk. Especially since the two, most often, seem to go hand in hand now among my peer group. And then, if you bring it up, you have to hear about how great pot is as the main topic of conversation. I’ve found it to be quite the pushbutton for a topic for those who are presently under it’s influence. I know people who think it should be positively cumpulsory.

Many have disingenuous and scandalous intent, even in the exploration of it’s so called medicinal purposes. It may very well have some licit medicinal purposes. But I doubt that everybody in the state of California needs a prescription of THC.

For anyone who hasn’t been completely brainwashed by the pro-pot culture already, I do want to at least post the CCC’s points about drug use. (yes, marijuana IS in fact a drug. And a drug of abuse at that). Let us let the Church speak here:

[2290](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2290.htm’)😉 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

So there’s that…

Peace to all,

Steven
 
There are no countries in which distribution of marijuana is entirely legal. It is just more seriously illegal in some places than in others.

But let us say for argument’s sake that it were to be made legal. In that case, the limits on ingestion would be similar to those for alcohol or for narcotics. Consumption would have to be a) according to laws concerning its use, b) moderate, and c) in avoidance of the near occasion of sin. You could perhaps smoke a small amount, as for tobacco, but not so much that harm to the lungs is a reasonable result. You could ingest a certain amount, but not to the degree that you were aiming to achieve a level of intoxication parallel to drunkenness. If you developed an addiction, even a psychological addiction, you would be bound to avoid it altogether. And so on.

I have a bomb shell to throw into this discussion. Is it moral to enact or fail to oppose laws against something (marijuana use included) that levy penalties against individuals and society that far exceed the harm the law is intended to prevent?

Let’s go back for a minute and think about the results of Prohibition. Organized crime responded to laws prohibiting alcohol as an opportunity to make money. People were killed over the alcohol trade, people went to prison at great expense to the taxpayers, and for what? Did the costs of enforcing the law justly reflect the seriousness of the need to prevent the public from having access to alcohol? Speaking reasonably, was Prohibition the most prudent and just solution to the real problem of alcohol abuse and addiction? Are we not seeing a parallel situation with regards to marijuana?

In other words, does a Catholic have a moral duty to oppose the enactment of draconian or ineffective laws? Must a Catholic be duly diligent to avoid legal penalties against others that are out of proportion to the seriousness of the action? Must a Catholic exercise a fiduciary responsibility by respecting the burden on other taxpayers that is inevitably levied in even a just crusade against vice? I think we’d all agree that it would be immoral to enact a law that exacted the death penalty for marijuana possession. Where is the line, then, concerning what we can and cannot do to discourage use or abuse of potentially harmful or mind-altering drugs?

Considering the consequences faced by those convicted under current marijuana laws, is it possible that our marijuana laws violate justice? If so, are we duty-bound to do anything about that?

I’m not looking for a solution with respect to marijuana, but rather opinions drawn from moral law generally concerning what factors need to be weighed when laws intended to curb vice are enacted.
 
Considering the consequences faced by those convicted under current marijuana laws, is it possible that our marijuana laws violate justice? If so, are we duty-bound to do anything about that?
Bold point on the “bombshell”. You are quite right; if we courageously pursue the morality of marijuana per se, we cannot fail to see the obvious parallels with Prohibition. The USA’s current policies are too harsh and the punishments are morally questionable. You said it.

Regarding another post: There are MANY (those older than highschoolers) who are just fine on most occasions to only “catch a small buzz”. People do grow-up, and get degrees, and jobs, and mortgages and MODERATION. I really don’t understand how some folks can say that marijuana can only, and always, result in becoming “stoned”.

Glennonite
 
I really don’t understand how some folks can say that marijuana can only, and always, result in becoming “stoned”.
a) Ever heard of a movie titled Reefer Madness? (Oh, wait. No one in that movie is stoned. They’re all hyped-up psychotics. They look like they’re on something, but my limited time in a college dormitory makes me guess it certainly wasn’t pot!)

b) It’s the people who use marijuana to cure all ambition who are noticable users. Especially because pot use is illegal, those who use in moderation remain unknown. Since they are responsible, if their employer forbids pot use, they quit, because their job is more important to them than recreational pot use.

That’s why I don’t think marijuana will be legalized: pot does a pretty good job of eliminating the anxiety. Many people can’t get to work in the morning without their sense of anxiety. If you legalized marijuana and made coffee illegal, the GDP would probably drop by half!
 
Why would any sane person want to deliberately inhale smoke from a burning substance?
:highprayer: ← Don’t tell me you don’t like that smell?, i.e., allowing the smoke to enter your nose

But in all seriousness, smoking anything is shown to be bad for you, if done enough.

More importantly though, this is a serious question to ponder.

People die or live in fear of dying in the drug wars (involving cannabis) either directly or collaterally, and sons and daughters, siblings, parents end up locked away from their families in prisons sometimes as a result of it. Though it may be legal in one country, wouldn’t the suffering it caused in other countries make it immoral to take in that legal country? The plant itself remains neutral so I can’t definitely say that it is…but people’s suffering should be considered and consider the golden rule.
🤷
 
You do realize that marijuana can be ingested without smoking it, right?
Yes, and I have done that (Alice B. Toklas brownies), during my very brief experimentation with drugs back in the early '70s.
:highprayer: ← Don’t tell me you don’t like that smell?, i.e., allowing the smoke to enter your nose
😃

Caught me there. I do love the smell of incense. My wife doesn’t; it triggers her asthma. On the other hand, I actually don’t know what marijuana smells like. I may be one of the few…
But in all seriousness, smoking anything is shown to be bad for you, if done enough.
More importantly though, this is a serious question to ponder.
People die or live in fear of dying in the drug wars (involving cannabis) either directly or collaterally, and sons and daughters, siblings, parents end up locked away from their families in prisons sometimes as a result of it. Though it may be legal in one country, wouldn’t the suffering it caused in other countries make it immoral to take in that legal country? The plant itself remains neutral so I can’t definitely say that it is…but people’s suffering should be considered and consider the golden rule.
🤷
Truth be told, I think that the criminalization of marijuana is itself a criminal waste of law enforcement resources. I don’t use it, and I wouldn’t hire anyone who does, but I think our LEOs have many better things to do than chasing after people carrying a few ounces of pot.
 
I have a bomb shell to throw into this discussion. Is it moral to enact or fail to oppose laws against something (marijuana use included) that levy penalties against individuals and society that far exceed the harm the law is intended to prevent?
I don’t disagree with you regarding civil law. It’s insane. There are still people in prison in Nevada for 1970’s marijuana convictions. In my post I was trying to address the OP, which was whether smoking marijuana is morally wrong in a legal setting, and as far as I can tell, from all I know about marijuana, and those who smoke it, including myself at a certain time in my life, it was not and is not morally licit in the ways that observe it being used. This would be true whether it was legal or not. So, I’m firmly on both sides of a straw man. It’s use should more than likely be decriminalized across the country, to end the pot prong of the ill prosecuted “war on drugs”. You stop drugs at the point of the user. Not the wholesaler. People need to be educated with the facts, and make their own good moral choices, just as we allow with alcohol, which is probably the root of more morality issues than all other psychotoxins combined.

But I think the laws about marijuana are kind of a different thread, aren’t they?

Interesting post though. Hard to argue with. It’s just a different argument than whether or not using marijuana is immoral. In most every case of it’s use that I’ve witnessed, even putting the law aside, yes…it’s use has been immoral. But by all means, we should stop putting people in prison for it. It’s not the most effective means of working with this issue, and is very costly, and takes money and food away from our people, and causes a great deal of poverty and unemployment and so on. I agree with the system where it’s treated the same way as alcohol. Legal, but with stern consequences for misuse when it endangers others, (driving, working, operating machinery, etc.). Good field sobriety tests would need to be developed.

Peace,

Steven

Peace,

Steven
 
:highprayer: ← Don’t tell me you don’t like that smell?, i.e., allowing the smoke to enter your nose

But in all seriousness, smoking anything is shown to be bad for you, if done enough.

More importantly though, this is a serious question to ponder.

People die or live in fear of dying in the drug wars (involving cannabis) either directly or collaterally, and sons and daughters, siblings, parents end up locked away from their families in prisons sometimes as a result of it. Though it may be legal in one country, wouldn’t the suffering it caused in other countries make it immoral to take in that legal country? The plant itself remains neutral so I can’t definitely say that it is…but people’s suffering should be considered and consider the golden rule.
🤷
Yes, however the marijuana used in the argument wouldn’t be coming from a country in a drug war over it. That wasn’t the initial scenario. 🙂
 
I don’t disagree with you regarding civil law. It’s insane. There are still people in prison in Nevada for 1970’s marijuana convictions. In my post I was trying to address the OP, which was whether smoking marijuana is morally wrong in a legal setting, and as far as I can tell, from all I know about marijuana, and those who smoke it, including myself at a certain time in my life, it was not and is not morally licit in the ways that observe it being used. This would be true whether it was legal or not. So, I’m firmly on both sides of a straw man. It’s use should more than likely be decriminalized across the country, to end the pot prong of the ill prosecuted “war on drugs”. You stop drugs at the point of the user. Not the wholesaler. People need to be educated with the facts, and make their own good moral choices, just as we allow with alcohol, which is probably the root of more morality issues than all other psychotoxins combined.

But I think the laws about marijuana are kind of a different thread, aren’t they?

Interesting post though. Hard to argue with. It’s just a different argument than whether or not using marijuana is immoral. In most every case of it’s use that I’ve witnessed, even putting the law aside, yes…it’s use has been immoral. But by all means, we should stop putting people in prison for it. It’s not the most effective means of working with this issue, and is very costly, and takes money and food away from our people, and causes a great deal of poverty and unemployment and so on. I agree with the system where it’s treated the same way as alcohol. Legal, but with stern consequences for misuse when it endangers others, (driving, working, operating machinery, etc.). Good field sobriety tests would need to be developed.

Peace,

Steven

Peace,

Steven
Well put Steven, and your earlier post as well! Discussing the laws against marijuana would be more appropriate for another thread.

I do respect your opinion and I agree many users can’t partake of marijuana in a responsible, moderated fashion, however, I do know a select few who simply partake in very little as a way to relax or in the words of the CCC, in a “Therapeutic” way.

That is what the original scenario presents, a level-headed, responsible person in a legal setting partaking in marijuana with the intention of relaxing and not getting “stoned.”

I do acknowledge that this presents a slippery slope but you’ve got to admit…this makes for interesting conversation. 😉
 
I once asked a friend of mine, a physical anthropologist, how it was that a malamute and a wolf were different species, while a malamute and a chihuahua were the same species. Her answer? “Politics”.

I can’t think of an argument from first principles that disallows recreational or therapeutic use of marijuana but allows recreational or therapeutic use of other psychoactive herbs, brews, medications, et cetera.

Having said that, there currently are no countries in which marijuana is fully legal. In the absence of a morally compelling reason to break the law–some condition which must be treated and for which no other treatment is available–the laws made by legitimate political authority must be respected. Until the laws change, no pot smoking. When they do, we are still bound to use in moderation and in compliance with legal boundaries on use, as we would now for alcohol, tobacco, or narcotics, and in avoidance of the near occasion of sin (which applies more personally in the case of addictive substances or activities).
 
I had a seminar with a doctor on drugs. He made a global view of what happens in the world. In the North Africa, wine and alcohol are forbidden but mariuana is permitted. In come countries of SAmerica, coca is permitted. But attention, some friends of mine who went there say that that has nothing to do with cacaine. It is leaves ofa plant with thousand times less coca than cocaine. everybody chews it. In southern countreies they drink wine and in northern countries more beer and stron beverages. In southern countries you drink one glass at every meal. In northern countries you do not drink during weekdays but on weekdays there are cities completely drunk as I have seen in Bristol, UK.

So, what? it seems it is a human need to take something to relax. But every religion is against excesses.

Amesrtdam was bad example and a bad experiment. Though I have not in full control of the data about the Dutch experiement.
yup, I believe there cocaine was only a problem when it was abused. I even had coca tea in the Andes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with coca. Even excessive amounts of coca leaves would be ok because you wouldn’t have an extreme amount unless it was through cocaine. The extract is the only problem and a serious one at that. Also, cannabis is far less destructive than alcohol, but I suppose most recreational drugs are fine in moderation. Also, they don’t have a glass at every meal. Thats really only for large meal or late lunch and early to late dinner.
 
Please be aware
that in many countries, including the USA,
buying marijuana, selling marijuana, and/or smoking marijuana
are legally considered Criminal Acts.
You could get in serious, serious trouble for it. Your life could be ruined.
If a friend is in your home when you are using it, and if your home gets raided,
your friend(s) could conceivably get in trouble too.
This goes for all illegal drug use.

Also, marijuana IS mind-altering, so in that sense it is sinful in itself to use it.
You should go to confession and repent.
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4
 
Please be aware
that in many countries, including the USA,
buying marijuana, selling marijuana, and/or smoking marijuana
are legally considered Criminal Acts.
You could get in serious, serious trouble for it. Your life could be ruined.
If a friend is in your home when you are using it, and if your home gets raided,
your friend(s) could conceivably get in trouble too.
This goes for all illegal drug use.

Also, marijuana IS mind-altering, so in that sense it is sinful in itself to use it.
You should go to confession and repent.
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4
Uh, who are you talking to?

Anyway, I don’t think the consumption of marijuana in a legal setting is morally wrong, if done in moderation.

As a former frequent marijuana “user,” there were many times I smoked a little to relax and unwind. It didn’t make me act “stupid,” or engage in sexual activity. Granted, many people who do smoke probably smoke to the point of getting “stoned,” but it is possible to stop before you reach that point.
 
What I don’t understand is that alcohol has even more dangerous effects than marijuana but no one makes a fuss over it. I think looking at this issue objectively is nearly impossible due to how stigmatized the actual marijuana plant is versus how culturally acceptable alcohol is. Theres nothing wrong with taking something to make you feel a certain way to certain extent, almost everyone has a cup of coffee in the morning to wake them up and stay alert, some people have a glass of wine in the evening to relax, so I just don’t see how marijuana can be morally wrong to do if it was legal if someone was using it for licit purposes with no intent of abuse to the point where their free will is impaired which is where taking any substance becomes sinful.
 
What I don’t understand is that alcohol has even more dangerous effects than marijuana but no one makes a fuss over it. I think looking at this issue objectively is nearly impossible due to how stigmatized the actual marijuana plant is versus how culturally acceptable alcohol is. Theres nothing wrong with taking something to make you feel a certain way to certain extent, almost everyone has a cup of coffee in the morning to wake them up and stay alert, some people have a glass of wine in the evening to relax, so I just don’t see how marijuana can be morally wrong to do if it was legal if someone was using it for licit purposes with no intent of abuse to the point where their free will is impaired which is where taking any substance becomes sinful.
Yeah, this is how I feel about it too.
 
Given the current restrictions on and social approbation of cigarette smoking (tobacco), how can any of you imagine a world where marijuana smoking will one day be hunky-dory?

We have jurisdictions in the U.S. that ban tobacco smoking outside or in private clubs. We even ban smoke from bar-b-que pits.
 
Please be aware
that in many countries, including the USA,
buying marijuana, selling marijuana, and/or smoking marijuana
are legally considered Criminal Acts.
You could get in serious, serious trouble for it. Your life could be ruined.
If a friend is in your home when you are using it, and if your home gets raided,
your friend(s) could conceivably get in trouble too.
This goes for all illegal drug use.

Also, marijuana IS mind-altering, so in that sense it is sinful in itself to use it.
You should go to confession and repent.
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4
Did you know that alcohol is mind altering? I’m not sure on what it is currently, but isn’t there also medical marijuana?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top