Is Sola Scriptura what Catholics now believe?

[NoelFitz]

I listened to Karlo Broussard claiming to believe that holding the Bible as the only source of revelation is incoherent, and he rejected it as false Protestant belief. I claim that now Catholic doctrine is that the Bible is the only source of revelations. There are not two sources of revelation, but one.

In the old day we used to believe there were two sources of revelation, Sacred Scripture and Tradition, but now since Dei Verbum Catholic teaching is that there is one source - Sacred Scripture, as interpreted by the Church.

Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. (Paul VI, Dei Verbum 1965).

 

[BenjaminJ]

You are dead wrong and talking heresy. As Jesus said, and was repeated by Peter and Paul, "Beware of false prophets that teach not what I have taught ".

 

[phil19034]

I listened to Karlo Broussard claiming to believe that holding the Bible as the only source of revelation is incoherent, and he rejected it as false Protestant belief. I claim that now Catholic doctrine is that the Bible is the only source of revelations. There are not two sources of revelation, but one.

In the old day we used to believe there were two sources of revelation, Sacred Scripture and Tradition, but now since Dei Verbum Catholic teaching is that there is one source - Sacred Scripture, as interpreted by the Church.

Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. (Paul VI, Dei Verbum 1965).

Dei Verbum says “there exists is a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and scared Scripture. For both of them, flowing the from the same divine wellspring…”

The “divine wellspring” is Divine Revelation not scared Scripture. Catholic do NOT believe that the Word of God is limited to the written form.

 

[runningdude]

You are incorrect; there is one deposit of faith, but two means of revelation: scripture **and ** the sacred tradition of the church. It is also from sacred tradition we know which books of scripture are divinely inspired.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

How exactly did you draw the conclusion you did from the Pope quote you posted? I’m not following at all.

 

[NoelFitz]

Phil19034
Thanks for your reply.
Besides quoting what I have quoted you write:

The “divine wellspring” is Divine Revelation not scared (sic.) Scripture. Catholic (sic.) do NOT believe that the Word of God is limited to the written form.

The Word of God is ambiguous for Catholics, as it can mean Jesus Christ (The Word was made flesh). In Pope Paul’s Dei Verbum it refers to the Bible, in my opinion.

You make a statement, but do not give justification. Why do you write ‘Catholic (sic.) do NOT believe that the Word of God is limited to the written form?’

Who says Catholic (sic.) do NOT believe that the Word of God is limited to the written form?

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DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION DEI VERBUM
_ _
1. Hearing the word of God with reverence and proclaiming it with faith, the sacred synod takes its direction from these words of St. John: “We announce to you the eternal life which dwelt with the Father and was made visible to us. What we have seen and heard we announce to you, so that you may have fellowship with us and our common fellowship be with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ” (1 John 1:2-3).

 

[Entwhistler]

I’m afraid that everything you have said up to this point has not proven that Catholics believe that the Bible is the only source of revelation. Neither of the quotes you have given from Dei Verbum comes even close to proving that. Besides, Dei Verbum came out in 1965. And no Catholic worth his salt that I’ve run into has said that the Church now teaches that. Neither has any priest. I’m very confused as to where you are coming from here.

 

[Cathoholic]

NoelFitz:

.

I claim that now Catholic doctrine is that the Bible is the only source of revelations.

.
Respectfully, you are incorrect here NoelFitz.

The only source of Divine Revelation is “The Word of God.”

Aside from the fact that Jesus IS the Word, the “Word of God” is transmitted to us by two means—Sacred Written Tradition (The Bible) and Sacred Oral Tradition.

The Dei Verbum document you cited if looked at more extensively will clear that up for you.

By the way, “Dei Verbum” itself means “Word of God” or “God’s Word”.

.
God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Hereiam]

Stop with the accuasations of heresy already…you are a bit over the top!

 

[BenjaminJ]

Speaking truth is never over the top

 

[Hereiam]

It might very well be when it is offered without charity!

 

[BenjaminJ]

The wording of first post would of been different. His second post confirms it.

 

[Thom18]

Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. (Paul VI, Dei Verbum 1965).

Are you trying to say here that Scripture flows from Scripture? How can something flow from itself?

This quotation is far from claiming that Scripture alone should be believed.

 

[NoelFitz]

In my opinion, prior to Dei Verbum Catholics believed in two sources of revelation (Sacred Scripture ands Tradition), but now in one, the Bible as interpreted by the Church. I will try to expand on this more fully in a reply to Tis_Bearself who asked ‘How exactly did you draw the conclusion you did from the Pope quote you posted?’

Entwhistler,
I know many Catholics have rejectred Pope Paul’s Humanae Vitae, but I am surprised at your dismissal of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council’s Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

The quote you give from Dei Verbum indicates, quite clearly, that they are two, not one. For instance, the phrase, “close connection” would indicate a connection between two. And the word, “both” indicates two different subjects.

 

[Cathoholic]

Preface to Dei Verbum

1. Hearing the Word of God with reverence and proclaiming it with faith, the sacred Synod takes its direction from these words of St John: “We announce to you the eternal life which dwelt with the Father and was made visible to us. What we have seen and heard we announce to you, so that you may have fellowship with us and our common fellowship be with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ” (1 John 1:2-3). Therefore, following in the footsteps of the Council of Trent and of the First Vatican Council, this present Council wishes to set forth authentic doctrine on divine revelation and how it is handed on, so that by hearing the message of salvation the whole world may believe, by believing it may hope, and by hoping it may love [1].

.
NoelFitz.

.
WHAT section of Trent or Vatican I do you think Dei Verbum is drawing upon to assert sola Scriptura?

 

[NoelFitz]

I must admit that I may have been too blunt in my opinion.

I accept that for Catholics the source of Revelation is the Bible, as interpreted by the Church, but the Church’s interpretation may be considered to bring in tradition.

CAF gives a good discussion

(Scripture and Tradition | Catholic Answers)

Catholics hold ‘The true “rule of faith”—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.’
(Thus one clearly sees the importance of the Bible as interpreter b the Church.)

In the Second Vatican Council’s document on divine revelation, Dei Verbum (Latin: “The Word of God”), the relationship between Tradition and Scripture is explained: "Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end.

PS: BenjaminJ. Your views are noted.
Ubi caritas et amor Deus ibi est.

 

[Cathoholic]

VATICAN II (Dei Verbum) . . . . sacred tradition takes the Word of God entrusted by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit to the Apostles, and hands it on to their successors in its full purity, so that led by the light of the Spirit of truth, they may in proclaiming it preserve this Word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known.

 

[De_Maria]

In my opinion, prior to Dei Verbum Catholics believed in two sources of revelation (Sacred Scripture ands Tradition),

Correct.

but now in one, the Bible as interpreted by the Church.

The Church interprets two. You interpret one. You aren’t the Church. You’re an individual who has made an error in interpreting a Catholic document.

I will try to expand on this more fully in a reply to Tis_Bearself who asked ‘How exactly did you draw the conclusion you did from the Pope quote you posted?’

Thanks.

Entwhistler,
I know many Catholics have rejectred Pope Paul’s Humanae Vitae,

What other Catholics have rejected is besides the point.

but I am surprised at your dismissal of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council’s Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation.

The only one. in this discussion, who seems to have rejected Dei Verbum, is you.

 

[BenjaminJ]

Your argument that Catholics just use scripture and not devine revelation is proven by you original post. There’s 1 Roman Catholic Church. There’s 100s of churches that think they can just use scripture. And not only that…

The one church that uses devine revelation has been around since the apostles. The churches that decided that they should just use their own interpretation of scripture started around 1100 when they decided they didn’t like the rules they had to live by.