Is Something Happening to Marian devotion?

[Tis_Bearself]

I would note that on May 1, not only the one Archdiocese was consecrated, but the entire USA was re-consecrated to Mary by the entire USCCB, in a large ceremony broadcast from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and watched by thousands of people (just judging from the numbers on the one video feed I watched - there were multiple feeds as well as EWTN covering it)

http://www.usccb.org/about/communications/consecration.cfm

This to me signifies that Marian devotion in USA Is very strong! As does the annual Rosary Coast to Coast Novena for our Nation which has been happening annually for some years. It is not just lip service to Mary, those who pray these devotions really love her.

 

[fide]

If anything, many of us see Marian devotion to be growing.

Could you expand on this observation? I’d be grateful - this was the concern of my OP.

 

[fide]

post in
error…

 

[fide]

Then perhaps you should ask him about it? He’s the only one who can answer you, really.

I am not free to discuss details that would be required to help you understand the situation. I appreciate your advice, anyway, but the OP was really not asking for advice but for the actual experience of others. Can you respond to that?

 

[MNathaniel]

Could you expand on this observation? I’d be grateful - this was the concern of my OP.

My local church is covered in statues and images of Mary. My friends all venerate Mary. The Catholic media I watch emphasize the beauty of Mary and Marian devotion (e.g. Tim Staples on Catholic Answers; Matt Fradd and Fr. Gregory Pine did a show on her and just put out a new book for Marian consecration which is one of many books on the topic, since options for consecration seem to have multiplied; “Mary, pray for us” is said so frequently in both liturgical and non-liturgical settings that I can’t even count them). I personally recently consecrated myself to Mary.

At least in my region, we seem good. Mama Mary is well beloved by local Catholics, and I imagine devotion to her will only grow among those who watch the same (young adult) Catholic youtube media that I do.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Could you expand on this observation? I’d be grateful - this was the concern of my OP.

I know you didn’t ask me but i will post again (I have mentioned this stuff before here and there).

When I was a child in the 1970s, Mary wasn’t very “popular”.

• The Rosary and novenas to Mary were considered old hat.
• One was supposed to read Scripture or join a charismatic prayer group.
• At one point there was even a debate about whether one should pray Rosary at Adoration or did it take the focus off Jesus (thank heaven Pope JPII eventully laid that one to rest in favor of saying the Rosary).
• I have heard from priests who were in seminary at that time that Marian devotion was discouraged among seminarians and could even get you kicked out.
• The last May crowning I remember at my childhood parish happened in about 1968. After that, they were discontinued.
• My mother would drive quite a distance to attend a Marian novena as the nearby parishes didn’t seem to have them.

Fortunately we did have an older pastor who encouraged the Rosary (as well as Adoration) and between that and my parents’ devotion to the Rosary and my mother’s devotion to Our Lady of Perpetual Help and Our Lady of Fatima, I learned to love Mary.

Moving ahead to the last few years…

• Thanks to Pope JPII there is a greatly renewed love of Mary and the Rosary.
• Annual May crownings are back in a lot of churches.
• Individual consecrations to Mary are very popular with many prayer groups doing them and the publication of “33 Days to Morning Glory”.
• Fr. Heilman leads huge groups of Rosary prayer warriors up into the tens of thousands on about two 54-day novenas each year.
• The annual Novena for our Nation culminates with a Rosary and Mary procession through Washington (Capitol Hill area, it’s quite a long one) each fall.
• The Marto children are canonized. The 100th anniversary of Fatima is HUGE.
• The Flame of Love movement (emphasizing Rosaries and penance) spreads from Hungary to many other dioceses including several in USA. It’s big here.
• Many churches have a regular Marian novena whether it’s Our Lady of Mercy, Our Lady Help of Christians, Our Mother of Perpetual Help, Our Lady of Guadalupe, or Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal.
• I see Mary statues or portraits now in churches that 20 years ago didn’t have one.
• The Pope adds the feast of Mary, Mother of the Church to the calendar in 2018.
• The US bishops re-consecrate the USA to Mary in a big ceremony on May 1, 2020.
• The Pope promulgates special Marian prayers asking for her protection and help in time of coronavirus.
• In my Archdiocese there is a nightly Rosary against Coronavirus every night during the shutdown with about 1500-2100 families joining (it’s scaling back now as parishes reopen but still drawing about 1200 families every night they have it).

This is just off top of my head.

 

[fide]

This to me signifies that Marian devotion in USA Is very strong! As does the annual Rosary Coast to Coast Novena for our Nation which has been happening annually for some years. It is not just lip service to Mary, those who pray these devotions really love her.

Thank you for this observation! I know there are some having beautiful, loving, deep devotion and attentiveness to our Blessed Mother. But the numbers that I see are few, and getting older (as I am) very quickly. This concerns me, as the days grow darker. And yes, I watched the consecration, and it was beautiful and I believe sincere.

Let me take this opportunity to list the characteristics of false devotion for the readers of this post, and of true devotion, from St. Louis de Montfort. Without full explanation, which would take too much space, but at least the lists:

On False Devotions to our Lady
92. I FIND seven kinds of false devotees and false devotions to our Lady, namely;
§ 1. The critical devotees;
§ 2. The scrupulous devotees;
§ 3. The external devotees;
§ 4. The presumptuous devotees;
§ 5. The inconstant devotees;
§ 6. The hypocritical devotees; and;
§ 7. The interested devotees.

On True Devotion:
106. § 1. True devotion to our Lady is interior; that is to say, it comes from the spirit and the heart. It flows from the esteem we have of her, the high idea we have formed of her greatness, and the love which we have for her.
107. § 2. It is tender; that is to say, full of confidence in her, like a child’s confidence in his loving mother. This confidence makes the soul have recourse to her in all its bodily or mental necessities, with much simplicity, trust, and tenderness…
108. § 3. True devotion to our Lady is holy; that is to say, it leads the soul to avoid sin, and to imitate in the Blessed Virgin particularly her profound humility, her lively faith, her continual prayer, her universal mortification, her divine purity, her ardent charity, her heroic patience, her angelical sweetness, and her divine wisdom…
109. § 4. True devotion to our Lady is constant. It confirms the soul in good, and it does not let it easily abandon its spiritual exercises. It makes it courageous in opposing the world in its fashions and maxims, the flesh in its wearinesses and passions, and the devil in his temptations. …
110. § 5. Lastly, true devotion to our Blessed Lady is disinterested; that is to say, it inspires the soul not to seek itself but God only, and God in His holy Mother…

 

[fide]

I know you didn’t ask me but i will post again (I have mentioned this stuff before here and there).

And thank you for that encouraging list… I’ll mark you down as pro-Mary!

 

[1ke]

was really not asking for advice but for the actual experience of others. Can you respond to that?

Marian devotion alive and well.

Rosary every week before mass. May crowning every year (including this year, live streamed). Feast day chasuble with Our Lady of Grace (that father wore on Corpus Christi Sunday as a matter of fact).

No dearth of mentions of Mary in homilies.

I haven’t seen any lack of Marian devotion in the parishes where my family goes (another state) or in parishes I visit in my (Pre-Covid) frequent traveling.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I am not sure if any of us are in a good position to judge the devotions of others to Mary.
If others are inconstant or in sin or whatever, it is still good they are reaching to Mary as she will help them. I know when I was living a sinful life, I still somehow reached to Mary and prayed to Mary. And she obviously helped me. She will help anyone who calls upon her.

It should be noted that having a Marian devotion nowadays will still get you a lot of criticism from not only unbelievers, but also from Protestants. I routinely have to put up with snarky remarks from both. I have honestly never met anyone who bothered to have devotion to Mary who was insincere about it.
The only Marian devotees who bother me are those who get overly hung up on the supernatural aspects of “prophecies”, and they are relatively few in number.

Mary loves all her children. She helps all her children. The ones who need more help, she will help more.

If you constantly try to categorize Marian devotees and arrive at the conclusion that even if there are many hundreds of thousands of them, most “don’t count” because they are in some way deficient not living up to the standards of St. Louis, then you will continuously be disappointed. This doesn’t seem productive. Just rejoice that there IS devotion to Mother Mary and ask her to please help all of her children to love Jesus, and herself, even more.

 

[fide]

I personally recently consecrated myself to Mary.

That is good news. I pray you grow closer and closer to her; she is the best of mothers, for the people of her Son. Have you read True Devotion, by de Montfort? If you have not yet, let me add a brief list of his characteristics of the True Devotion that he so earnestly and zealously encourages:

On True Devotion:
106. § 1. True devotion to our Lady is interior; that is to say, it comes from the spirit and the heart. It flows from the esteem we have of her, the high idea we have formed of her greatness, and the love which we have for her.
107. § 2. It is tender; that is to say, full of confidence in her, like a child’s confidence in his loving mother. This confidence makes the soul have recourse to her in all its bodily or mental necessities, with much simplicity, trust, and tenderness…
108. § 3. True devotion to our Lady is holy; that is to say, it leads the soul to avoid sin, and to imitate in the Blessed Virgin particularly her profound humility, her lively faith, her continual prayer, her universal mortification, her divine purity, her ardent charity, her heroic patience, her angelical sweetness, and her divine wisdom…
109. § 4. True devotion to our Lady is constant. It confirms the soul in good, and it does not let it easily abandon its spiritual exercises. It makes it courageous in opposing the world in its fashions and maxims, the flesh in its wearinesses and passions, and the devil in his temptations. …
110. § 5. Lastly, true devotion to our Blessed Lady is disinterested; that is to say, it inspires the soul not to seek itself but God only, and God in His holy Mother…

The Church today has great - and growing - need for such devotees. I pray you persevere.

 

[fide]

If you constantly try to categorize Marian devotees and arrive at the conclusion that even if there are many hundreds of thousands of them, most “don’t count” because they are in some way deficient not living up to the standards of St. Louis, then you will continuously be disappointed. This doesn’t seem productive. Just rejoice that there IS devotion to Mother Mary and ask her to please help all of her children to love Jesus, and herself, even more.

St. Louis, in words close to the end of his book, saw the need for great holiness in the days to come:

1. I feel myself more than ever animated to believe and to hope all which I have had deeply engraven upon my heart, and have asked of God these many years, namely, that sooner or later the Blessed Virgin shall have more children, servants, and slaves of love than ever; and that, by this means, Jesus Christ, my dear Master, shall reign more in hearts than ever.
2. I clearly foresee that raging beasts shall come in fury to tear with their diabolical teeth this little Writing and him whom the Holy Ghost has made use of to write it, or at least to smother it in the silence of a coffer, that it may not appear. They shall even attack and persecute those who shall read it and carry it out in practice. But what matter? On the contrary, so much the better! This very foresight encourages me, and makes me hope for a great success; that is to say, for a great squadron of brave and valiant soldiers of Jesus and Mary, of both sexes, to combat the world, the devil, and corrupted nature in those more than ever perilous times which are about to come! Qui legit, intelligat. Qui potest capere, capiat.
   (Rough translation: Let him that reads, understand. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.)

Thanks again for your contributions to the thread.

 

[Dlee]

We cover Mary during RCIA - sometimes more, sometimes less. More when there are questions about Mary’s role and less when they already have a devotion or understanding of Mary. This is one part where the catechumens/candidates drive the depth of study.

 

[fide]

We cover Mary during RCIA - sometimes more, sometimes less. More when there are questions about Mary’s role and less when they already have a devotion or understanding of Mary. This is one part where the catechumens/candidates drive the depth of study.

Thank you for that report - the first here, concerning RCIA, I think. (My thoughts: yes, the catechumens/candidates help determine the depth possible to “cover”, but I think the presentations ought always to include some insights deeper enough to show that there is a depth - in any Catholic belief - that is “deeper” than one might think. There is always more, of divine Truth, than any natural man knows of matters supernatural.)

Working with RCIA is a great privilege, and a heavy responsibility. The Truth entrusted to the Church is immense! To communicate that alone, in the RCIA session, is so important.

 

[MariaChristi]

Does your priest or pastor have devotion to the Blessed Mother Mary?.. Is the exclusion of Mary a new normal?

Dear Fide,

I read through the whole long list of varied replies to your original post, so I’m repeating the OP in order to respond to you. It grieves me also to say I’ve seen a decline in Marian devotion beginning a long time ago.

In answer to your question, I am grieved to say, the homily you mentioned is only one example of a certain “disconnect” that seems to have come into some Catholics’ thinking (both clergy and laity) regarding Mary’s special role in God’s Plan. As I think you’ve already pointed out from the Catechism 971: “All generations shall call me blessed. The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.”

I’ve noticed the decline in Marian Devotion much as St. John Paul II noticed it as far back as 1982. In an address to the Legion of Mary in Italy, October 30, 1982 he said:

…Where the Mother is, there too is the Son. When one moves away from the Mother, sooner or later he ends up keeping distant from the Son as well. It is no wonder that today, in various sectors of secularised society, we note a widespread crisis of faith in God, preceded by a drop in devotion to the Virgin Mother.

It is not only with your pastor, I agree with you, that unfortunately he is not unique in not “connecting Mary” in his homily as he spoke of the “yes” of Abraham without connecting it to Mary’s “yes” at the Annunciation and by the power of the Holy Spirit she conceived the Body of Christ in her womb. I have served in many parishes in the USA and I agree with you that your pastor is not unique in his seeming “neglect” to even mention Mary as the Mother of Christ and as Abraham is called the father of our faith, Mary is also called Mother of our Faith.

I’ve been blessed to know many good and holy priests and I thank God for them. I’m simply saddened by some and I was happy when Pope Benedict called for Visitations to the Seminaries because I wondered about what some were being taught or not taught. Your question is a legitimate one and I’m sorry to say that there seems to be something that has happened to Marian Devotion among some clergy and laity.

 

[fide]

Thank you, MariaChristi - especially for remembering and including in your response, that powerful affirmation of St. John Paul II. I had forgotten that. His devotion to Mary, of course, is well known and I hope respected. His theological insights, in my opinion, reflected in the many, many profound papers he wrote as Pope, show a luminance that seems to me clearly that of the Holy Spirit.

The observation you quoted, from St. John Paul II, shows such a beautiful insight into the close union of Mary with Christ in the “content” of the Gospel itself. And thus, the crucial importance of her inclusion in any proclamation and embrace of the Catholic Faith. She is NOT a mere “extra” in the Faith - that seems to be the gravely erroneous conclusion of some caught up today in modern schools of thought re: evangelization. This is the error of a “false irenicism” in Catholic evangelism warned of in Vatican II.

“It is altogether necessary that full doctrine be lucidly explained. Nothing is so foreign to true ecumenism as that false irenicism in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers detriment, and its true and certain sense is obscured.” (Vat. II Decree on Ecumenism §11)

 

[OddBird]

On a different continent, here in Europe, my local parish (Our Lady of the Assumption) and all its parishioners are consecrated to Mary every year on August 15th.

Two of the three parish priests are quite open about their personal Marian devotion; the third one is more discreet, but, I suspect, no less devout.

Mary is not mentioned in every single homily. Nor is every single recessional hymn a Marian hymn, although it often happens too. But she’s so present in the church’s iconography that she’s always, literally, before the eyes of the faithful. And if the parish had an official anthem, it would be Couronnée d’étoiles (Crowned with stars), which is sung often enough that even that probable future ex-Protestant knows it by heart.

Free rosaries and Marian devotional booklets are placed in a conspicuous place at the entrance of the church.

Before lockdown, there used to be a Rosary twice a week.

I have no idea about how the trend looks like on the long term, but it honestly doesn’t feel like Mary is neglected in my parish.

 

[MikeInVA]

You don’t think the feast of the Corpus of Christ, the human Body which He received and grew within His mother Mary - is not a good time to mention that connection?

I was part of a men’s group discussion on Saturday about the reading for the feast. The only time Mary came up was when we prayed the Hail Mary at the end. We focused on different aspects of the feast. That doesn’t mean we’re not devoted, it means that there is a lot more that can be said about the feast of Corpus Christi than can fit in to a six-minute homily.

 

[fide]

Just curious - what aspects of the Feast did you focus on? How would they be listed in order of importance, would you suppose?

 

[MikeInVA]

Most of our discussion focused on the desire of the Jews for the bread of life as they wandered in the desert, and how that relates to where we’ve been for the last few months since parishes stopped celebrating public Mass.