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CuriousInIL
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Is spanking sinful?
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PraRFLEsEkHm
Guest
Spare the rod - spoil the child. I truly believe this and all we need do is look around at the behaviors and attitudes of children today to see how true this is. HOWEVER - there is a right way and a wrong way to do things…excessive force is NOT necessary, neither do we resort to that at every turn. Also, the PARENTS attitude plays a part in determining the sinfulness as well - are we punishing out of Anger {Look at what you did - I TOLD YOU]? Shame/guilt [Look at what you did - people saw you do that]? Self-Pity [Look at this mess - now I have to clean it up too]? Or out of Love for the child, and a desire to see them grow up into useful, adjusted adults with a strong sense of morals and values.
Punishment with self serving motives a way to vent out frustration, or lay guilt trips to ease our conscience which is telling us we are bad parents because we cannot control our children…etc. ] are sinful no matter what medium is used…because Love is not the motivation. IMHO.
But I don’t think that spankings are sinful in and of themselves…I believe thay are an effective way to re-inforce, and enforce, discipline in a child - and bring about the proper attitudes of respect, humility, obediance, and Love. Personally I have found that a firm hand with children [my own or others] is followed immediately by respect on their part. Kids seem to KNOW they need strong discipline, and gravitate towards that.
My experiance
Punishment with self serving motives a way to vent out frustration, or lay guilt trips to ease our conscience which is telling us we are bad parents because we cannot control our children…etc. ] are sinful no matter what medium is used…because Love is not the motivation. IMHO.
But I don’t think that spankings are sinful in and of themselves…I believe thay are an effective way to re-inforce, and enforce, discipline in a child - and bring about the proper attitudes of respect, humility, obediance, and Love. Personally I have found that a firm hand with children [my own or others] is followed immediately by respect on their part. Kids seem to KNOW they need strong discipline, and gravitate towards that.
My experiance
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puzzleannie
Guest
what is sinful is failure of parents to discipline their children, that is child abuse. discipline does not mean punishment, corporal, or otherwise, except in clearly defined circumstances. discipline means first teaching the child, beginning as soon as he is old enough to understand, what is expected, what is right, what is wrong, what is hurtful or dangerous, what is acceptable, and what is pleasing to the parents. Then teaching him what the consequences are of the undesirable behavior, then enforcing the consequences. and as G&S would sing it, always have the punishment fit the crime. Don’t set them up in a situation where they are bound to fail, such as put a toddler in a room with a lot of breakable objects on low shelves, and then punish them for failure. Create an environment where they can suceed most of the time, and correct them when they deliberately disobey. there is a huge difference between a slap on a butt padded by a diaper, and 20 lashes with a belt on bare legs.
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Feanaro_s_Wife
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I agree with both Puzzleannnie and PraRFLEsEkHm.
Malia
Malia
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kamz
Guest
I have spanked and probably will yet with my younger two kids but my two older are 12 and 10 and time out and taking away a favorite toy, activity etc. work wonderful with them, I have to say that, I don’t use spanking very often so when I do, it is effective, but I never spank if I’m angry, then I will use time out, it just depends, but discipline is needed for all children and if you don’t like spanking there are many ways to get the point out that certain behavior is not o.k., time outs, taking away fav toy, no having friend over for a week, etc. all those can work wonders, what I’m scared of is…when my kids are teens, then what?? 
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bapcathluth
Guest
I agree that it is a sin to be permissive and not discipline your child. Not teaching children discipline–especially self-discipline will make them dependant and unready for the world.
Spanking, hitting, yelling and screaming are not discipline. The best discipline is logical consequences. Children need to make mistakes when they are young and suffer from the consequences, so they don’t make bigger mistakes when they are older and have dire consequences.
For example, if my children don’t keep their rooms clean, I don’t spank or yell. I just don’t let them have priviledges that they would like until it is clean or I clean it myself and demand payment for my time. Guess what? They clean their rooms without my telling them to anymore.
I don’t nag about homework. If my children don’t do their homework, they lose their recess at school. My kids love recess, so they want to do their homework.
I am not claiming to be perfect. Sometimes I lose it and yell. I do think a spanking is in order for a very young child who does something very dangerous and needs to be shocked into a realization.
Is spanking a sin? Not if it is done in the spirit of wanting your children to learn and not in a violent and hurtful manner. I, personally don’t spank, but my mother and father did. I still love them. They did it because that was the accepted way to parent for them and many generations.
Spanking, hitting, yelling and screaming are not discipline. The best discipline is logical consequences. Children need to make mistakes when they are young and suffer from the consequences, so they don’t make bigger mistakes when they are older and have dire consequences.
For example, if my children don’t keep their rooms clean, I don’t spank or yell. I just don’t let them have priviledges that they would like until it is clean or I clean it myself and demand payment for my time. Guess what? They clean their rooms without my telling them to anymore.
I don’t nag about homework. If my children don’t do their homework, they lose their recess at school. My kids love recess, so they want to do their homework.
I am not claiming to be perfect. Sometimes I lose it and yell. I do think a spanking is in order for a very young child who does something very dangerous and needs to be shocked into a realization.
Is spanking a sin? Not if it is done in the spirit of wanting your children to learn and not in a violent and hurtful manner. I, personally don’t spank, but my mother and father did. I still love them. They did it because that was the accepted way to parent for them and many generations.
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Eileen_T
Guest
In New Zealand there is talk at present about making it a crime to smack/spank a child. The politician promoting this idiocy says it is not about making parents criminal if they smack their child…the police say it will.
I must say I used to feel bad about smacking my children until I read Dr James Dobson’s books Dare to Discipline and Discipline While You Can. Brilliant books in my opinion.
I must say I used to feel bad about smacking my children until I read Dr James Dobson’s books Dare to Discipline and Discipline While You Can. Brilliant books in my opinion.
I agree. Why do you think ADHD is such a problem with this generation of children. If they are not disciplined properly they will end up being drugged to make them maleable.
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Shlemele
Guest
Oh, this reminds me of a story a principal recalled to me not too long ago;
That being said not every child responds to the same punishment. For some kids loosing a privilege works better than spanking for others one spanking is enough to keep them on the straight and narrow. My thought is go with what works for the child. The method of discipline is secondary, what MUST be in place are clear rules and consequences (if X behavior is present Y will be the result). Rules should be enforced but flexible if the situation warrants it (i.e. if there is a movie on past bed time then bed time can be extended). The key is to keep away from the extremes, both authoritarian and overly permissive tends to cause problems.
Another thing to take into consideration is the situation surrounding the child. I was a sub in a special day class. There was an autistic child (not full blown but definitely had some of the symptoms). Behavior had been a problem lately and the father had left a cell number where he could be reached if the child got out of hand and needed a spanking (his tantrums has caused injury to the teachers in class one of whom was my wife so I was witness to the bruises and knew what could happen). Well about half way through the day we had a spelling test. The kids had to write 1-10 on the paper and then spell the words, no big deal right? Well the autistic child accidentally ripped the paper on 1-3, so what did I do but take the paper and write 1-3 at the bottom. Well I should have known but for him that was a grievous error. To an autistic child things have to go in order so about a half second after I handed him the paper I saw his face change to this half confused half mad look. I quickly grabbed the paper back, got a new one and replaced it with one that had the numbers going 1-10. I avoided a full on tantrum but I had inadvertently upset him, not his fault. Well we got through the test and he was testy again, the difference is that when he is in his autistic phase he is closed in, when he is being stubborn his mannerisms are open. I ended up having to get the number from the desk and pull out my cell phone (at that point he knew I was serious so he started to behave, so I sat down with him, explained that I needed him to behave and that he was gong to have to spend some time in time out because he had misbehaved). The thing is that during one time he was experiencing symptoms of his disorder, in the other he was being willfully disobedient. In the end the inappropriate behavior was punished and not the behavior he had control over (and incidentally that was the last problem we had). Most importantly he understood that the rules had to be followed and his choices had consequences.
I say WAY too much of this while I was a sub. Some children think that they can argue their way out of punishment and those lessons start at home, be they good or bad.
That being said not every child responds to the same punishment. For some kids loosing a privilege works better than spanking for others one spanking is enough to keep them on the straight and narrow. My thought is go with what works for the child. The method of discipline is secondary, what MUST be in place are clear rules and consequences (if X behavior is present Y will be the result). Rules should be enforced but flexible if the situation warrants it (i.e. if there is a movie on past bed time then bed time can be extended). The key is to keep away from the extremes, both authoritarian and overly permissive tends to cause problems.
Another thing to take into consideration is the situation surrounding the child. I was a sub in a special day class. There was an autistic child (not full blown but definitely had some of the symptoms). Behavior had been a problem lately and the father had left a cell number where he could be reached if the child got out of hand and needed a spanking (his tantrums has caused injury to the teachers in class one of whom was my wife so I was witness to the bruises and knew what could happen). Well about half way through the day we had a spelling test. The kids had to write 1-10 on the paper and then spell the words, no big deal right? Well the autistic child accidentally ripped the paper on 1-3, so what did I do but take the paper and write 1-3 at the bottom. Well I should have known but for him that was a grievous error. To an autistic child things have to go in order so about a half second after I handed him the paper I saw his face change to this half confused half mad look. I quickly grabbed the paper back, got a new one and replaced it with one that had the numbers going 1-10. I avoided a full on tantrum but I had inadvertently upset him, not his fault. Well we got through the test and he was testy again, the difference is that when he is in his autistic phase he is closed in, when he is being stubborn his mannerisms are open. I ended up having to get the number from the desk and pull out my cell phone (at that point he knew I was serious so he started to behave, so I sat down with him, explained that I needed him to behave and that he was gong to have to spend some time in time out because he had misbehaved). The thing is that during one time he was experiencing symptoms of his disorder, in the other he was being willfully disobedient. In the end the inappropriate behavior was punished and not the behavior he had control over (and incidentally that was the last problem we had). Most importantly he understood that the rules had to be followed and his choices had consequences.
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spacecadet
Guest
just wanted to point out that many people mistakenly think this is in the bible and it is not.
there is a verse about the rod but it is in reference to Aaron’s staff which symbolized the word of God. so if you do not teach your child the word of God it will lead to his ruin, which I’m sure we all agree on. I put yes, becasue for me I consider it a form of violence and I do not parent with violence whether it is in my emotions or my hands. * Meaning if I ever did spank i would go to confession and confess it.
I was a teacher that handled 30 5 year olds at one time, some who behaved horribly and of course I could never spank them. If I can handle them (and I often had the most well behaved class in the school) I can surely handle my own children without spanking.
Also, discipline doesn’t automatically = spanking. here is the definiton from dictionary.com
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dis·ci·pline
n.
*]Training expected to produce a specific character or pattern of behavior, especially training that produces moral or mental improvement.
*]Controlled behavior resulting from disciplinary training; self-control.
*]- Control obtained by enforcing compliance or order.
- A systematic method to obtain obedience: a military discipline.
*]A state of order based on submission to rules and authority: a teacher who demanded discipline in the classroom.
*]Punishment intended to correct or train.
*]A set of rules or methods, as those regulating the practice of a church or monastic order.
*]A branch of knowledge or teaching.
from dictionary.com
punishment is not the first definition although many think it is. discipline comes from disciple, (student) I choose to realte like Jesus did with His disciples.
I do think that permissive parenting is also sinful. giving into your child is not teaching them how to be a healthy adult. I was spanked 3 times and I remember each time. I was humiliated. I hated it. My parents began to change their ways and our younger siblings were never spanked. They have turned out to be some of the most wonderful people I know. They make amazing choices, especially for high school teenagers.
I’m currently reading the Discipline book by sears, Biblical parenting by Lutton and looking for other books to ensure that I do not fall into the trap that no spanking means permissive parenting because it doesn’t
ps i don’t know why that came out bold i didn’t intend that (shrug)
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kaymart
Guest
I don’t believe in spanking, but worse then spanking is the empty threath of a spanking that is never given, yet the child misbehaves more and more. I seen it so many times, “If you touch that I’ll spank you”, hence he touches it and momma says “Touch that again and I mean it I’ll spank you”, this goes on and on and the child learns not to believe Mom. Then she cries, “He never listens to a word I say, what can I do???” And on another note these Mothers (and Fathers) who let their little darling “express feelings” no matter how rude they are, are not teaching their sons and daughters any manners whatsoever. If they “feel” Aunt Mary is “fat”, and Uncle Pete is “smelly” just say it or if they don’t wish to say hello to Grandma that’s OK because they are “Expressing their feelings” and I’m not talking about 2 year olds, I’m talking about children already in school acting in this manner.
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PraRFLEsEkHm
Guest
just wanted to point out that many people mistakenly think this is in the bible and it is not.
Proverbs 13:24
He who spares the rod, hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. [NIV]
I don’t have a King James anymore - which is where the original ‘Spare the Rod/Spoil the child’ I think came from as it is most remembered. apalled.
Peace to all
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spacecadet
Guest
KJV
NKJV
yes, but the phrase spare the rod, spoil the child still isn’t in the bible. and as i said before people assume that rod means something to hit with, yet in this verse
Psalm 23:4
the rod is bringing comfort…
something to think about
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spacecadet
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rolling on the floor laughingI get more out of the NIV and the NAB than I EVER did the King James…my former Baptist preacher would be apalled
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mlchance
Guest
Whoever loves his son will beat him frequently so that in after years the son may be his comfort. (Ecclesiasticus 30:1)
– Mark L. Chance.
– Mark L. Chance.
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Island_Oak
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rayne89
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I remember this Bible passage very well. While dating my husband as a teen we were at his parents house one day. Some how we got on the subject of corporal punishment and child abuse. His father knew exactly where to find this passage in the Bible. I’d never seen it before and I was horrified. My husband’s father did beat him frequently as he was growing up- giving him welts and bruises, beating him the buckle end of a belt until his back bled. His son will not be comfort to him in his after years that I can assure you.
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kaymart
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Oh your poor husband, what a horrible upbringing.
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JKirkLVNV
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You’re right. What it actually says is this, in either Psalms or Proverbs (can’t think which): “He who spareth the rod hateth his son” KJV (yes, yes, the King James Version, it’s how I memorized the verse, long before I turned Catholic, everybody put down the holy water and the Rite of Exorcism). I support “spanking” and think it should be done judiciously. I oppose whaling the merry hell out of a child or slapping them across the face, etc.
I think spanking is only a sin if you swear while you do it.
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spacecadet
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ok I looked it up in the NAB I have and it says
Sirach 30:1-2
Sirach 30:1-2
chastise doesn’t automatically mean beat. In Hebrew/Aramaic it meant come let us reason together.
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maryjk
Guest
I don’t know if it is sinful, but I know that when I was a child and was spanked, I learned that big people can hit little people.
So this big person doesn’t hit my little person. And all that know him think he is a great kid.
So this big person doesn’t hit my little person. And all that know him think he is a great kid.
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