Is sport sinful?

[colmcille1]

Hi there,
I pose this question ‘Is sport sinful?’ What is the CC’s teaching on sport both as a participant and onlooker? I myself feel that competitive sport springs from the realm of the ego; and I wonder if there really is such a thing as healthy competition?
Thanks and looking forward to your contributions.

 

[Black_Rose]

Hi there,
I pose this question ‘Is sport sinful?’ What is the CC’s teaching on sport both as a participant and onlooker? I myself feel that competitive sport springs from the realm of the ego; and I wonder if there really is such a thing as healthy competition?
Thanks and looking forward to your contributions.

Why do some Catholics lionize Jeff Suppan, Mike Piazza, and Tom Glavine who are all Catholics (Champions of Faith)?

 

[Rascalking]

Everything is sinful. Everything. Breathing is sinful. (Your stealing someone elses oxygen) Eating is sinful. (Someone else could be eating what you are). Looking around is sinful.(Keep your eyes to yourself). Lying on a sofa and doing nothing is sinful. (sloth! sloth! Sloth!)

Just trying to lighten things up. Some people seem to think that everything known to humankind is wrong and immoral.

No, of course sports aren’t sinful. Like anything, they can be made into sinful behavior-(IE, when I’m participating in karate, if I aim for the jugular and then giggle with glee when I knock the other guy out, yes thats wrong) but no, of course it sports aren’t wrong or sinful.

 

[catherine126]

Just a personal opinion (I don’t have any specific Scriptural or CCC references right now…)

-Participation in sports can (and should!) teach teamwork skills
-training your physical body, within limits, is physically and emotionally healthy - helps release tension
-Sports are a huge part of our popular culture - why not minister through such activities? The FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes), while admittedly not Catholic, does attempt to bring Christ into the lives of athletes and coaches.

I do think there can be sinful attitudes of pride, but perhaps also humility. We can certainly pray for our best performance, but so can other teams. It’s not all about winning and losing…

Any other thoughts?

 

[pinctor]

The way sport is idolised these days, not excluding by Catholics, you’d think it was a sacrament!:bowdown2:

 

[Rascalking]

The way sport is idolised these days, not excluding by Catholics, you’d think it was a sacrament!:bowdown2:

I plead guilty to that one. I love baseball, hiking and fishing…so, um…mea culpa.

 

[Lancer]

I believe that you are on to something…that we need to be a lot more critical of our national sports culture and most importantly…our personal habits/mindsets on various sports venues/activities in our individual lives. Here is something from the Catechism:

2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for it’s sake,** to idolize physical perfection and success at sports**. By** its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can ** lead to the perversion of human relationships.

Church teaching clearly does not condemn all sports activities…even the Vatican has a soccer league…but maybe the local Churches (dioceses), need to give us a sort of “examination of conscience” question/check lists similar to the Ten Commandments style/type of examination for Confession…to let us see if we have “crossed the line”…when it comes to our Christian principles.

Here is what first opened my mind on this topic.

Rosary*** – ***Mysteries, Meditations and the Telling of the Beads
by Kevin Orlin Johnson; Pangaeus Press (1996); pgs 264-267.

Here is a sample of some of what he says…paraphrased:

He says that St. Luke’s Greek word for **agony **(in the garden) … means struggle…not pain or torment…and in the Greek-speaking world that same word meant…sport…! He notes that Saint Augustine preached against sport and bishops constantly exhorted Christian emperors to end the Olympic Games and close the stadia…**Tertullian (Father of Church) and Novatian wrote whole books on sports and its utter incompatibility with Christian principles. ** Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote whole articles on the vices that sport expresses as aberrations, violations of Christian principles of life, and in fact sins. **Preachers **of the Middle Ages spoke unanimously against sport and so did lawmakers…but the best they could often do was to put in some rules to govern the “struggle”!

Hard to imagine all the fuss back then…when now…even priests will open/close Mass with some lighthearted/jovial comments…about the local pro/college sports team’s success or lack thereof in a recent event!

Like I mentioned…maybe a personal examination of conscience is the best approach to check ourselves…I know that I need to do it!

Pax Christi

P.S. Rolltide…! (this is my truth-teller comment).

 

[colmcille1]

Thanks, posters, for your interesting and entertaining views.
I was wondering, and I hope I’m not straying off topic, does the status of amateur and professional have a bearing on the subject?
Here in Ireland, we have an amateur organisation called the Gaelic Athletic Association.
It prides itself on its amateur status yet there are those who would like to see it become professional. Personally, I have no stake in this one way or the other but I do know that, at club level(even indeed at schools level), the on-field games are fiercely contested. My brother told me of an incident where he saw a man berating his SIX year old son for not “getting stuck in there”!The kid was naturally terrified.
What is that kind of behaviour doing to that childs psyche?
Are we inculcating kids with false ideas about" healthy competition"?
In the UK, premiership soccer players are paid outrageous weekly salaries: up to 150 thousand euros!
Is this creating a love-of-money sin-fest?

 

[Rascalking]

Thanks, posters, for your interesting and entertaining views.
I was wondering, and I hope I’m not straying off topic, does the status of amateur and professional have a bearing on the subject?
Here in Ireland, we have an amateur organisation called the Gaelic Athletic Association.
It prides itself on its amateur status yet there are those who would like to see it become professional. Personally, I have no stake in this one way or the other but I do know that, at club level(even indeed at schools level), the on-field games are fiercely contested. My brother told me of an incident where he saw a man berating his SIX year old son for not “getting stuck in there”!The kid was naturally terrified.
What is that kind of behaviour doing to that childs psyche?
Are we inculcating kids with false ideas about" healthy competition"?
In the UK, premiership soccer players are paid outrageous weekly salaries: up to 150 thousand euros!
Is this creating a love-of-money sin-fest?

Yes, some parents are insane when it comes to sports. They are living vicariously through their kids, and that’s really sad. I see it all the time as well. Of course, drilling it into your kids is really wrong.

As to the money factor-yes. They make alot of money. It’s called capitalism. The dirty little secret that no one wants to admit it what the brilliant Thatcher said-You need to make money in order to donate it to worthy causes. Being rich isn’t sinful, if you got the money through luck, hard work,talent, etc. If your a dope dealer or you made your money in the porn buisness, yes, that IS sinful. But working hard and gaining money isn’t wrong.

 

[colmcille1]

Yes, some parents are insane when it comes to sports. They are living vicariously through their kids, and that’s really sad. I see it all the time as well. Of course, drilling it into your kids is really wrong.

As to the money factor-yes. They make alot of money. It’s called capitalism. The dirty little secret that no one wants to admit it what the brilliant Thatcher said-You need to make money in order to donate it to worthy causes. Being rich isn’t sinful, if you got the money through luck, hard work,talent, etc. If your a dope dealer or you made your money in the porn buisness, yes, that IS sinful. But working hard and gaining money isn’t wrong.

Yes, good points. As you say, the behaviour it encourages is sad. And its also true that sports per se aren’t intrinsically sinful(although blood sports is a whole new thread…or is it?) However, is there not some sort of double-standard in operation here? Namely, its okay to make heaps of money from sports but if you are a backroom investor in some huge sports team AND you also have commercial profits from a porn endeavour, is this okay simply because part of what you are doing is good?

 

[Rascalking]

Yes, good points. As you say, the behavior it encourages is sad. And its also true that sports per se aren’t intrinsically sinful(although blood sports is a whole new thread…or is it?) However, is there not some sort of double-standard in operation here? Namely, its okay to make heaps of money from sports but if you are a backroom investor in some huge sports team AND you also have commercial profits from a porn endeavor, is this okay simply because part of what you are doing is good?

1-Blood sports-I personally think some are disgusting and sick (I am a boxing fan, but I’m talking about MMA and that other stuff)-but if your into it, knock yourself out (literally). I cannot say they are sinful, it doesn’t go that far. If you give consent to get your teeth knocked in, then, well-go for it.

2-You don’t need to diversify in sports and porn. They have nothing to do with each other. If you invest in both, that is wrong. If you give thousands to the chuch and also to the porn industry, that is wrong as well.

These are, of course, just my opinions.

 

[PatriceA]

Yes, some parents are insane when it comes to sports. They are living vicariously through their kids, and that’s really sad. I see it all the time as well. Of course, drilling it into your kids is really wrong.

As to the money factor-yes. They make alot of money. It’s called capitalism. The dirty little secret that no one wants to admit it what the brilliant Thatcher said-You need to make money in order to donate it to worthy causes. Being rich isn’t sinful, if you got the money through luck, hard work,talent, etc. If your a dope dealer or you made your money in the porn buisness, yes, that IS sinful. But working hard and gaining money isn’t wrong.

Some parents are just insane, period. The same sinful behaviors can be seen in ANY activity children are involved in. Dance, musical instruments, even academic contests…they all can lead to sinful behaviors by the child and/or the parent.

Its not the activity that is sinful, including sports, its the person that is insecure and will resort to sinful behaviors while participating in the activity either as the actual participant or the parent of the participant.

 

[colmcille1]

I believe that you are on to something…that we need to be a lot more critical of our national sports culture and most importantly…our personal habits/mindsets on various sports venues/activities in our individual lives. Here is something from the Catechism:Church teaching clearly does not condemn all sports activities…even the Vatican has a soccer league…but maybe the local Churches (dioceses), need to give us a sort of “examination of conscience” question/check lists similar to the Ten Commandments style/type of examination for Confession…to let us see if we have “crossed the line”…when it comes to our Christian principles.

Here is what first opened my mind on this topic.

Rosary*** – ***Mysteries, Meditations and the Telling of the Beads
by Kevin Orlin Johnson; Pangaeus Press (1996); pgs 264-267.

Here is a sample of some of what he says…paraphrased:

He says that St. Luke’s Greek word for **agony **(in the garden) … means struggle…not pain or torment…and in the Greek-speaking world that same word meant…sport…! He notes that Saint Augustine preached against sport and bishops constantly exhorted Christian emperors to end the Olympic Games and close the stadia…**Tertullian (Father of Church) and Novatian wrote whole books on sports and its utter incompatibility with Christian principles. ** Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote whole articles on the vices that sport expresses as aberrations, violations of Christian principles of life, and in fact sins. **Preachers **of the Middle Ages spoke unanimously against sport and so did lawmakers…but the best they could often do was to put in some rules to govern the “struggle”!

Hard to imagine all the fuss back then…when now…even priests will open/close Mass with some lighthearted/jovial comments…about the local pro/college sports team’s success or lack thereof in a recent event!

Like I mentioned…maybe a personal examination of conscience is the best approach to check ourselves…I know that I need to do it!

Pax Christi

P.S. Rolltide…! (this is my truth-teller comment).

Excellent post, sir, and some great food for thought. I would like to check out the book you referenced.

 

[colmcille1]

1-Blood sports-I personally think some are disgusting and sick (I am a boxing fan, but I’m talking about MMA and that other stuff)-but if your into it, knock yourself out (literally). I cannot say they are sinful, it doesn’t go that far. If you give consent to get your teeth knocked in, then, well-go for it.

2-You don’t need to diversify in sports and porn. They have nothing to do with each other. If you invest in both, that is wrong. If you give thousands to the chuch and also to the porn industry, that is wrong as well.

These are, of course, just my opinions.

Re: no.2 point. Sorry, I meant to imply that the love of money was the sole motivation for said investor. That money, as it were, was not subjected to any form of moral compass.
And that therefore sport could be viewed as fair game(sorry, couldn’t resist it!) for money-making just as any outright evil practices. I have several times heard people refer to sports ticket prices as downright immoral.

 

[Rascalking]

Re: no.2 point. Sorry, I meant to imply that the love of money was the sole motivation for said investor. That money, as it were, was not subjected to any form of moral compass.
And that therefore sport could be viewed as fair game(sorry, couldn’t resist it!) for money-making just as any outright evil practices. I have several times heard people refer to sports ticket prices as downright immoral.

You may be onto something. Jakking up ticket prices so only the super rich can afford them (In America, it’s horrid. The big market teams are like that) may be sinful. I hesitate to call it sinful, because I think that sort of cheapens the word. If we call everything sinful than the word has no meaning.

 

[LilyM]

Excellent post, sir, and some great food for thought. I would like to check out the book you referenced.

I’m fairly sure the main objection Tertullian and Augustine had to stadium sports was the fact that most sporting events were done as an act of worship to the pagan gods.

Eg the Olympic Games involved ceremonies of worship, as well as being performed ‘in honour of’ the ancient gods. Not to mention competitors performed nekkid, which might incite the sin of lust. Certainly there are instances of ladies (who were banned from spectating at Olympia) sneaking in to get a look! And some of the sports (ie the pankration and gladiator contests) were extremely violent as well.

With the other ‘vices’ spoken of by the Church fathers, again sport can incite things like idolising of favourite sports stars, a cult of body-worship, love of violence and the like. But so do other recreations encourage like vices - the watching of crime shows (violence) or Hollywood gossip shows (cult of celebrity) for example.

It’s all to do with moderation and having an intelligent attitude towards sports, as with all things.

 

[colmcille1]

I’m fairly sure the main objection Tertullian and Augustine had to stadium sports was the fact that most sporting events were done as an act of worship to the pagan gods.

Eg the Olympic Games involved ceremonies of worship, as well as being performed ‘in honour of’ the ancient gods. Not to mention competitors performed nekkid, which might incite the sin of lust. Certainly there are instances of ladies (who were banned from spectating at Olympia) sneaking in to get a look! And some of the sports (ie the pankration and gladiator contests) were extremely violent as well.

With the other ‘vices’ spoken of by the Church fathers, again sport can incite things like idolising of favourite sports stars, a cult of body-worship, love of violence and the like. But so do other recreations encourage like vices - the watching of crime shows (violence) or Hollywood gossip shows (cult of celebrity) for example.

It’s all to do with moderation and having an intelligent attitude towards sports, as with all things.

Interesting points, thank you.
May I zone in on your reference to the comparative analysis viz sports and “other recreations”. The essential difference here is that while both encourage vices as you correctly pointed out, sports are open to practically all of mankind at all levels of competency and,indeed, wage grades. We can participate on field with varying degrees of anger. The late John Mortimer said sport brought out the worst in people.
While TV does indeed wield a bad influence on those susceptible to it, there is a distancing or alienating effect going on also. In sport, as participants we are literally in the thick of it.