Is sports practice a sin?

[colmcille1]

I’m not familiar with St. Peter Damian but what I can say is that this (i.e. philosophising) is what great Saints and mystics “do”. They are blessed by God with great intelligence and put it to use to ascertain insights into the human condition.

With all due respect, Colmcille: no, no, no. God created all of us out of the same stuff: dirt. And that’s what we all are: dirt. That includes every man or woman who bears an “St.” in front of his or her name. They were not all blessed by God with great intelligence; some weren’t very bright at all (St. John Vianney, for example). On the contrary, there have been many people blessed by God with great intelligence who were not saints, many of whom were and are downright wicked.

A saint, being just dirt like the rest of us, is capable of believing and speaking utter nonsense…just like Peter Damian did if he actually believed and said that chess was sinful. Of course chess isn’t sinful; it’s absolute nonsense to suggest otherwise. Anyone with a shred of common sense can see that. The fact that one is holy doesn’t make one genius; it certainly doesn’t make one infallible.

Someone pointed out the fact that Pope John Paul II was an avid skier. Pope Pius XI, I know, was an avid mountain climber. And I’m sure you could probably name about 1000 saints who enjoyed a game of chess from time to time. The fact is that there is nothing wrong with sports or with playing sports, intrinsically speaking. For any saint you can point out who thinks sports are sinful, I’m sure I can throw 20 back at you who were sports fans.

Hi Pregustator,
Yes, point taken. I should have qualified my remarks re great Saints and mystics.

On a broader canvas, do you think that team sports carry a disproportionate amount of importance in some peoples lives?
Here’s just a very specific example of what I mean: here in Ireland, we have an amateur sports organisation called the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association). It is well supported throughout the land. On any given Sunday during summer, it is quite common to see youngsters wearing their county’s football/hurling shirts to morning Mass. Invariably it will be the early Mass that they attend as this leaves them sufficient time to either a) travel to the big game itself or b) get to a relatives home to watch the game on TV. The GAA rightly prides itself on it’s family-friendly image.
But, to my mind, there are two things wrong here. The minor point is that parents should not allow their kids wear the shirts to Mass. It’s disrespectful.(I wager that Church authorities would reply that it’s good to see them there in the first place regardless but, in my view, such a reply is symptomatic of the wishy-washy nature of our hierarchy here.)
The far more important and far-reaching point is that I can guarantee you that come 5 o’clock that evening (the time the game finishes), those selfsame kids won’t be talking about the readings in Mass. Not a chance. They’ll be full of talk of victory/defeat, goals, fouls, red cards etc etc. I have deliberately zoned in on this because it juxtaposes what ought to be central (Faith) with what is (sport).
So, I am focussing here on a specific area of sport in which huge emotions (especially among the susceptible young) are trained (!) towards an activity that takes up so much of their time and energy and can, for some, become an obsession.
And, not wishing to flog old St. Damian to death but is sport not worthy of examination? What is it that makes it beyond the pale of accepted philosophical scrutiny? If you see how fervently athletes train week-in and week-out for that prize, you would never turn to them and say: “Ah, sure, don’t worry about it, it’s only sport!” They’d soon tell you where to go!
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[colmcille1]

Hi Pregustator,
Although I addressed sport in the last post as a spectator’s pursuit, I equally apply the argument to sport as a practice.
It is common knowledge that bitter rivalries can fester between players on opposing (and even the same) teams. This is plain unhealthy and I’m not at all convinced that it may not give rise to sin.
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[Joe_5859]

If anyone is interested, I would recommend typing the following into Google:

sports site:vatican.va

I got 528 hits from the Vatican website where “sports” is mentioned in various papal messages, homilies, and other Church documents.

Here is an excerpt from the first result, John Paul II’s “Jubilee of Sports People” homily from October 29, 2000:

Playing sports has become very important today, since it can encourage young people to develop important values such as loyalty, perseverance, friendship, sharing and solidarity. Precisely for this reason, in recent years it has continued to grow even more as one of the characteristic phenomena of the modern era, almost a “sign of the times” capable of interpreting humanity’s new needs and new expectations. Sports have spread to every corner of the world, transcending differences between cultures and nations.

Because of the global dimensions this activity has assumed, those involved in sports throughout the world have a great responsibility. They are called to make sports an opportunity for meeting and dialogue, over and above every barrier of language, race or culture. Sports, in fact, can make an effective contribution to peaceful understanding between peoples and to establishing the new civilization of love.

I love JP II.

 

[ab75]

Hi Pregustator,
Yes, point taken. I should have qualified my remarks re great Saints and mystics.

On a broader canvas, do you think that team sports carry a disproportionate amount of importance in some peoples lives?
Here’s just a very specific example of what I mean: here in Ireland, we have an amateur sports organisation called the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association). It is well supported throughout the land. On any given Sunday during summer, it is quite common to see youngsters wearing their county’s football/hurling shirts to morning Mass. Invariably it will be the early Mass that they attend as this leaves them sufficient time to either a) travel to the big game itself or b) get to a relatives home to watch the game on TV. The GAA rightly prides itself on it’s family-friendly image.
But, to my mind, there are two things wrong here. The minor point is that parents should not allow their kids wear the shirts to Mass. It’s disrespectful.(I wager that Church authorities would reply that it’s good to see them there in the first place regardless but, in my view, such a reply is symptomatic of the wishy-washy nature of our hierarchy here.)
The far more important and far-reaching point is that I can guarantee you that come 5 o’clock that evening (the time the game finishes), those selfsame kids won’t be talking about the readings in Mass. Not a chance. They’ll be full of talk of victory/defeat, goals, fouls, red cards etc etc. I have deliberately zoned in on this because it juxtaposes what ought to be central (Faith) with what is (sport).
So, I am focussing here on a specific area of sport in which huge emotions (especially among the susceptible young) are trained (!) towards an activity that takes up so much of their time and energy and can, for some, become an obsession.
And, not wishing to flog old St. Damian to death but is sport not worthy of examination? What is it that makes it beyond the pale of accepted philosophical scrutiny? If you see how fervently athletes train week-in and week-out for that prize, you would never turn to them and say: “Ah, sure, don’t worry about it, it’s only sport!” They’d soon tell you where to go!
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

You make worthwhile points … and the reality is, come 5 PM I’d venture far too few people are discussing the daily readings, in favor of a host of things. Hopefully, while we are all out in the world we are living them with our lives by showing love and mercy. Everyone should evaluate if there activities bring them closer to God and helping them love neighbor, or further from it.

Yes, sports has caused harm and rivalry and misplaced obsession. We have a church that has seen countless rivalries between bishops, Popes and Saints. Unfortunately it’s a part of human nature. There are more worthwhile endeavors than sports, however there are many less worthwhile endeavors. As for the person who asked the initial question, no one here knows how much he’s practicing, what he would otherwise be doing, what sport he’s practicing, who he’s influencing, what his goals of practice are, etc. If he has concerns, they probably are best discussed with his confessor who can get to the heart of the question, and WHY he has these concerns, since simply practicing a sport is not inherently sinful, there may be other concers.

 

[quasimodo]

What about coed high school wrestling? Don’t laugh. Our courts have forced it on schools in some cases.

 

[Pregustator]

Hello, Comcille:

On a broader canvas, do you think that team sports carry a disproportionate amount of importance in some peoples lives?

Yes, sure they do. You see that all the time. Some people, I would argue, make something of a religion out of their devotion to certain sports or even teams. I won’t disagree with you at all on that point. An inordinate attachment to anything is a danger.

But I think the thrust of the original post was to ask if sports are wrong, in and of themselves. The questioner seems to have a scruple about the very notion of playing sports, at all, and whether or not the mere playing of a sport might be somehow sinful. And the answer to that has to be, “no”, of course (Peter Damian’s opinions concerning chess notwithstanding). There’s nothing intrinsically evil about sports: baseball, football, American football, volleyball, hunting…what have you.

Now, if we’re talking say, pole dancing, well…

But I don’t think we were talking about that.

 

[colmcille1]

If anyone is interested, I would recommend typing the following into Google:

sports site:vatican.va

I got 528 hits from the Vatican website where “sports” is mentioned in various papal messages, homilies, and other Church documents.

Here is an excerpt from the first result, John Paul II’s “Jubilee of Sports People” homily from October 29, 2000:

Playing sports has become very important today, since it can encourage young people to develop important values such as loyalty, perseverance, friendship, sharing and solidarity. Precisely for this reason, in recent years it has continued to grow even more as one of the characteristic phenomena of the modern era, almost a “sign of the times” capable of interpreting humanity’s new needs and new expectations. Sports have spread to every corner of the world, transcending differences between cultures and nations.

Because of the global dimensions this activity has assumed, those involved in sports throughout the world have a great responsibility. They are called to make sports an opportunity for meeting and dialogue, over and above every barrier of language, race or culture. Sports, in fact, can make an effective contribution to peaceful understanding between peoples and to establishing the new civilization of love.

I love JP II.

Hi Joe5859,
I too love the great Pope John Paul II. I had the privilege to see the great man twice. And thanks for your interest in this thread.
The Papal documents you cite are indeed inspiring. I was trying to give everyday examples where we fall short of such moral instruction.
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[colmcille1]

Hello, Comcille:

Yes, sure they do. You see that all the time. Some people, I would argue, make something of a religion out of their devotion to certain sports or even teams. I won’t disagree with you at all on that point. An inordinate attachment to anything is a danger.

But I think the thrust of the original post was to ask if sports are wrong, in and of themselves. The questioner seems to have a scruple about the very notion of playing sports, at all, and whether or not the mere playing of a sport might be somehow sinful. And the answer to that has to be, “no”, of course (Peter Damian’s opinions concerning chess notwithstanding). There’s nothing intrinsically evil about sports: baseball, football, American football, volleyball, hunting…what have you.

Now, if we’re talking say, pole dancing, well…

But I don’t think we were talking about that.

Hi Pregustator,
Yes, I agree with you re sports are not in themselves wrong. And true, perhaps the questioner does have other reasons for his post.
However, I was trying to tease out the case where, if sports are set up to be free and fair, and to be something above or beyond the otherwise cynical radar of our everyday dealings, why is it that they so often fail in these respects?
Here’s another angle. One of my brothers is completely indifferent to sports. In fact, I’d go so far as to say he hates it. I have talked with him about this many times and I assure you it is not a reflection of some flaw in his character. Indeed, he is a very level-headed fellow, quite a reflective man to be honest. Now, a very good friend of mine is, to all intents and purposes, of the very same mind as my brother. Both men, from my conversations with them, see the poor sportsmanship, the greed, the overpriced tickets etc as just plain ridiculous. They resent the attitude that says “you must be a bit odd if you don’t like such-and-such a sport”. And they are not alone. There are many who have not the slightest interest in sports, some for simple reasons, others for very insightful reasons. I think we could learn from them.
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[Pregustator]

Colmcille:

…if sports are set up to be free and fair, and to be something above or beyond the otherwise cynical radar of our everyday dealings, why is it that they so often fail in these respects?

Human nature has a real knack for taking good things and spoiling them, doesn’t it? Look at the law!

Obviously, there is nothing wrong with not liking sports, either. I’m not a huge sports fan, myself. Most of them bore me, in fact, especially football!

And as much as I get into hockey during the season…never played a game of it in my life!

Unless you count table hockey.

 

[ab75]

Hi Pregustator,
Yes, I agree with you re sports are not in themselves wrong. And true, perhaps the questioner does have other reasons for his post.
However, I was trying to tease out the case where, if sports are set up to be free and fair, and to be something above or beyond the otherwise cynical radar of our everyday dealings, why is it that they so often fail in these respects?
Here’s another angle. One of my brothers is completely indifferent to sports. In fact, I’d go so far as to say he hates it. I have talked with him about this many times and I assure you it is not a reflection of some flaw in his character. Indeed, he is a very level-headed fellow, quite a reflective man to be honest. Now, a very good friend of mine is, to all intents and purposes, of the very same mind as my brother. Both men, from my conversations with them, see the poor sportsmanship, the greed, the overpriced tickets etc as just plain ridiculous. They resent the attitude that says “you must be a bit odd if you don’t like such-and-such a sport”. And they are not alone. There are many who have not the slightest interest in sports, some for simple reasons, others for very insightful reasons. I think we could learn from them.
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

I understand that position, I just really struggle to think of many things that don’t have people corrupt them at times. Charities fail from theft, The list of crimes committed by clergy and religous is unfortanately long, academic, political and business pursuits fair the same. We humans can take clearly positive things and corrupt them and have throughout history.

I hear your point, but if someone judges another because they don’t enjoy a sport, that is their sin. There is certainly no obligation to like sports, or science or academics or food, etc, but no sin to do so.

 

[phoenixrrt62]

All this time I thought Notre Dame’s big sin was having Obama speak there. Turns out, it’s having a football team! Which will come as a surprise to generations of devout grads, members of the Congregation of the Holy Cross, and assorted Irish wannabees.

If St. Peter Damian thought chess to be evil, wonder what he’d say about - gasp - Monopoly?

Seriously, questions such as this trouble me, because I feel for those who seem to find sin everywhere. Reminds me of that old monk in The Name of the Rose who thought laughter was sinful.

What he said…

 

[colmcille1]

You make worthwhile points … and the reality is, come 5 PM I’d venture far too few people are discussing the daily readings, in favor of a host of things. Hopefully, while we are all out in the world we are living them with our lives by showing love and mercy. Everyone should evaluate if there activities bring them closer to God and helping them love neighbor, or further from it.

Yes, sports has caused harm and rivalry and misplaced obsession. We have a church that has seen countless rivalries between bishops, Popes and Saints. Unfortunately it’s a part of human nature. There are more worthwhile endeavors than sports, however there are many less worthwhile endeavors. As for the person who asked the initial question, no one here knows how much he’s practicing, what he would otherwise be doing, what sport he’s practicing, who he’s influencing, what his goals of practice are, etc. If he has concerns, they probably are best discussed with his confessor who can get to the heart of the question, and WHY he has these concerns, since simply practicing a sport is not inherently sinful, there may be other concers.

Hi ab75,
A very good post, thank you. You rightly point out that there are indeed both more and less worthwhile endeavours. We all need to work to survive but we don’t need sport in such a capacity.(Professional sport is, I venture, a topic for another thread…or is it?) Therefore the dynamics governing all sport are different from other areas of life and its right that this is how it should be. But what if sport falls short of those dynamics? Are we not entitled to feel especially aggrieved when the very pursuit we thought was immune to the sometimes shady workings of the workaday world can just as easily succumb to these dealings? Or has sport simply become another tainted human pursuit?
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[FairyGirl]

I thought about this and want an answer so I might be at peace with it. Is sports practice a sin?

No it’s not as long as it’s not against your Catholic faith, i.e. going to Sunday Mass every Sunday.

 

[colmcille1]

What he said…

Hi phoenixrrt62,
Would you like to expand on your post?
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[colmcille1]

What about coed high school wrestling? Don’t laugh. Our courts have forced it on schools in some cases.

Hi quasimodo,
If this is true (and I take your word for it) it’s political correctness gone utterly insane!
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[Joe_5859]

Hi Joe5859,
I too love the great Pope John Paul II. I had the privilege to see the great man twice. And thanks for your interest in this thread.
The Papal documents you cite are indeed inspiring. I was trying to give everyday examples where we fall short of such moral instruction.
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

But of course. There is certainly no shortage of examples of people idolizing sports and making it into a “religion” all its own.

 

[phoenixrrt62]

Hi phoenixrrt62,
Would you like to expand on your post?
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

I meant that I agreed with this:
Seriously, questions such as this trouble me, because I feel for those who seem to find sin everywhere. Reminds me of that old monk in The Name of the Rose who thought laughter was sinful.****

I was getting from the OP that he was thinking that sports practice was inherently sinful…which utterly baffled me. However, reading your take on it, I can see another side to the debate.
I’m not much for sports myself, Mind, I see nothing wrong with sports generally, but when I see sports devotion taken beyond a simple game and professionals revered more than teachers, doctors, clergy, etc…yeah, that annoys me…

 

[colmcille1]

I meant that I agreed with this:
Seriously, questions such as this trouble me, because I feel for those who seem to find sin everywhere. Reminds me of that old monk in The Name of the Rose who thought laughter was sinful.****

I was getting from the OP that he was thinking that sports practice was inherently sinful…which utterly baffled me. However, reading your take on it, I can see another side to the debate.
I’m not much for sports myself, Mind, I see nothing wrong with sports generally, but when I see sports devotion taken beyond a simple game and professionals revered more than teachers, doctors, clergy, etc…yeah, that annoys me…

Thanks for your reply, phoenixrrt.
It’s funny, but any women I have spoken with on this topic seem to go along with what you have expressed. I wonder, because women are generally more peace-loving than men (or is that a dubious generalisation!) is there a gender difference on this topic?
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[simspt]

I thought about this and want an answer so I might be at peace with it. Is sports practice a sin?

Ravi Zacharias (spelling?) does a nice job addressing this question. u can look him up on the web he has a website.
sports ie surfing give many a sense of appreciation for GOD that many would argue is edifying. I believe that the Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft has also discussed his love of body surfing and its influence on him in relation to God.
Anyways wasnt Peter a fisherman, thats a sport:thumbsup:

 

[colmcille1]

Ravi Zacharias (spelling?) does a nice job addressing this question. u can look him up on the web he has a website.
sports ie surfing give many a sense of appreciation for GOD that many would argue is edifying. I believe that the Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft has also discussed his love of body surfing and its influence on him in relation to God.
Anyways wasnt Peter a fisherman, thats a sport

I see the angle you’re coming from, simspt!