Not being a Catholic, I suppose you don’t know that willfully not being in communion with the Church is a serious thing…so much so that one’s own soul may be at stake. Disobedience is hardly the mark of a virtuous person.
Thanks for the info, consumedconvert . I wonder now if VivatJesus will apologize to the Holy Father???
Experience informs me that the Times is about the least reliable source about all things Catholic. So I did a quick Google search and look what I found!! Wow. That was easy.
BTW, you might have enjoyed last Sunday’s homily. Mnsgnr found a way to combine the issues of the Feast of St. Peter and Paul, the tradgedy of Abortion, our responsibility to vote responsibly and uphold Catholic values in the upcoming election (which he linked into this Friday being the Fourth). I can’t remember if he made mention of the Real Presence this week or not. He did last week, and the week before that our assistant Pastorpresided. He also mentioned the Real Presence.
We currently celebrate only the OF, but after we get our new Chapel, a replica of a famous medieval Chapel, we will, Lord Willing, also celebrate the EF.
Are Catholics to obey the church even if the church is wrong?
With all due respect, you are right. You don’t have a dog in this fight.
I don’t “find it appealing”, but truthfully, how does it affect me if they believe that? I know they believe that. I know it full well. That is not what I am defending. I am defending their right to hold to the traditions they feel are truly Catholic. I do the same in my own religion, when less observant Jews try to tell me that Orthodox Jews should “change”.
Here we go again…
Are all Catholics to only obey and believe what they want? I thought the general opinion of cafeteria catholics was negative…are you suggesting that it’s ok to pick and choose???It may be that you are mistakenly identifying the Catholic Church as frozen in the Middle Ages. O yes, She was great then, but had Her struggles too. But the Church is not a museum piece. She has Christ as her Living Head, and the Pope is His Vicar–ruling the Church in His Name.
The Church cannot be wrong in matters of Faith or Morals. Catholics know this.
So then, are you saying that Catholics ARE to obey the church even when it is wrong?Here we go again…
No one disputes their right to hold onto their traditions. But there is no tradition that says you may defy the Pope–by appointing Bishops illicitly–with impunity.
Go ahead and say it. You don’t think we think for ourselves.
A consumedconvert noted, the Church cannot be wrong in matters of faith and morales. If it is, then the promise of Christ Himself is empty.
I suppose in some ways this is a personal issue for me…as you may know my mother was a convert to Judaism from pre-Vatican II Catholicism…while some of her family were not very religious, many of them were…and they all left the church after the changes emanating from Vatican II…and quite a few of them returned, but via the SSPX. So I do know people who attend SSPX Masses, and they are my own family members (hey, how many Jews can claim to have family members in the SSPX?
But if the SSPX had not existed, they would have stayed away from the church. Would that have somehow been preferable? I had another aunt who refused to allow a novus ordo when her husband died in 1978 (she wanted the TLM but the local parish told her, “we don’t do that Mass anymore”.) She ended up burying him without any Mass at all, and then later, found the SSPX. If she had found them before then, her late husband could have been buried with the Mass he grew up with.I am sorry for your family’s pain. There were, however, many Catholics who stayed in full, regular Communion with the Popes who also felt pain–I know some of them. Change is never easy, and indeed, mistakes were made by many who misinterpreted Vatican II, or even never read it but rushed off the deep end in the Council’s name. Tragic stuff, that.I suppose in some ways this is a personal issue for me…as you may know my mother was a convert to Judaism from pre-Vatican II Catholicism…while some of her family were not very religious, many of them were…and they all left the church after the changes emanating from Vatican II…and quite a few of them returned, but via the SSPX. So I do know people who attend SSPX Masses, and they are my own family members (hey, how many Jews can claim to have family members in the SSPX?
I have listened to their pain (esp. the much older ones, who remember when the changes actually took place)…I have an aunt who was a nun at the time and was emotionally shattered by it. To use a more modern term, “I felt their pain” because I knew how I’d feel if someone tried doing that to my religion.
Thank you, Sepharad; sometimes, it takes an “outsider” to hear an objective opinion! :clapping:
First of all, the Society of St. Pius X adherents never “left the Church”…if anything, the rest of the Church left THEM. And your example of St. Francis and the medieval proverb is fine when the priest is leading an immoral life but is at least teaching THE FAITH…but when a priest becomes a heretic and teaches things contrary to the Catholic faith–which Novus Ordo priests commonly do–one should NOT “do as the prieste says”.
An objective opinion? And are you putting yourself in that category?
Wonderful logic there, bud. I was not aware that the sspx were the true Apostolic Successors of the Holy See.